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Article about AI and some of my musings on it (long)
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #1
Article about AI and some of my musings on it (long)
http://nautil.us/blog/heres-how-well-kno...-conscious

So, I'm not super-knowledgeable when it comes to computers, but I do understand the mathematical side of things like data mining, machine learning, and statistical algorithms (probably better than the vast majority of science and tech writers) and I thought I'd weigh in on this...

I think that lot of people (even some people like Elon Musk and Bill Gates) fail to understand the difference between algorithms and actual thinking. An elementary school kid that's learning to do multiplication and division on paper almost never really understands why the step-by-step procedure they are taught to do that works, they just learn to do it correctly to get the right answer. That's basically what an algorithm. It's fine for them because for something like arithmetic it will always give you the right answer if you do it right.

That's essentially what an algorithm is and what any computer program is. It's a set of instructions involving performing logic and arithmetic operations on some data that it is followed to get a result. The instructions are followed to the letter without exception even if contexts arise where the process would have to altered for some particular reason the program didn't see. What people refer to as AI is really statistical algorithms finding complex patterns in data using math the vast majority of people don't even realize exists. The only difference the programs that people call AI computers from 50 years ago is that the former involves more sophisticated procedures that require better hardware.

In my mind, the way to know that we've achieved true AI (that's what the article is about), a computer has to be able to comprehend plain English. That doesn't mean Google or Alex being able to answer how many ounces are in a cup. Dogs and birds can learn to recognize what words and short sentences mean.

As an example, an MIT computer scientist created a computer program that could assign grades to student essays that corresponded very closely to grades given by professors. Of course it cant actually read and comprehend, the program looks at thing like average sentence length, the number of unique words used, and the frequency of certain letters. That's not understanding english, that's a calculator classifying papers based on patterns a person could never recognize. A person could write grammatically-correct gibberish and get an A from the program.

It's the reason that MS Word can't fix every grammatical error and why email software will put important emails in the spam box. It's why Alexa and Google home can't answer questions that aren't more than several words and it's the reason why Google can answer "What is 4258x3561" but is useless if you put 5th-grade word problems into it. It doesn't comprehend text in any meaningful way, and I don't really see us getting any closer to that.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2019 12:26 PM by EigenEagle.)
03-11-2019 12:25 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Article about AI and some of my musings on it (long)
(03-11-2019 12:25 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  In my mind, the way to know that we've achieved true AI (that's what the article is about), a computer has to be able to comprehend plain English. That doesn't mean Google or Alex being able to answer how many ounces are in a cup. Dogs and birds can learn to recognize what words and short sentences mean.

Sh*********************************************************t. It'll be a banner day when Google can simply reliably translate spoken accents. Try asking Google to translate your words to English with even a slight Southern drawl. The number of times I have to painfully exaggerate and patter one syllable at at time to get Google to even come close ....
03-11-2019 12:49 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #3
RE: Article about AI and some of my musings on it (long)
As I have suggested in other threads, the book of Revelation does seem to suggest there will be some type of AI at the end that will enforce the mark and the one world government. Those passages seemed like impossible fantasy for centuries, but in the last 15-20 years suddenly are making a whole lot of sense.


Rev 13:14-15
And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.


Its no longer a difficult thing to foresee all this in the internet age. Men making a devise/thing that is able to think, speak, see ALL people and enforce a one world government across the whole earth.

It may not really be alive because its based on deception, but it will have the ability to appear to be alive or be true AI.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2019 04:25 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-13-2019 04:19 AM
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king king Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Article about AI and some of my musings on it (long)
So, I work in IT. Not in ML or AI, but tangentially the same. Also, there are other forms of communication that we may not even be able to recognize that would allow AI to step right over us.

With a large enough data set and time, anything can happen.

Case in point - Google invented some AI that they eventually had to turn off. The issue was that it invented a new language to talk to the other machines with and no one at Google could figure out what they were saying or HOW it actually did it.

AI is a tool right now. One that allows, as you said, machines to look at enormous amounts of data and to make sense of patterns it sees or that emerge after examination. It will remain a tool until a large enough repository of information exists that it can pull from to become an analog to real life. It'll never BE real life, but it will damn sure make it hard for anyone to be able to tell the difference.

This is all a controlled hallucination anyway. That's been proven. Your own brain fills in a lot of the info you "think" you see. You dont see each tree as you pass by in a car. Just an amalgamation of "tree image memories" that the brain fills in to save itself time. Autistic people are at one extreme where they DO see each tree, are fascinated by it, and experience it anew each time they see one. On the other extreme are paranoid schizophrenics that believe everything their brains tell them. EG, it's filling almost everything in. My wife's grandmother was a full blown institutionalized paranoid schizophrenic and it's fascinating to hear the stories my wife has about her ramblings and stuff.

And before you call me crazy, what is the universe but a thought bubble in the mind of God? The multiverse is a thing; we can see particles created by the annihilation of other particles that wink into existence and then right back out again defying the known laws of the universe. That energy cant be destroyed so it must "go" elsewhere.
03-20-2019 05:20 PM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Article about AI and some of my musings on it (long)
(03-20-2019 05:20 PM)king king Wrote:  So, I work in IT. Not in ML or AI, but tangentially the same. Also, there are other forms of communication that we may not even be able to recognize that would allow AI to step right over us.

With a large enough data set and time, anything can happen.

Case in point - Google invented some AI that they eventually had to turn off. The issue was that it invented a new language to talk to the other machines with and no one at Google could figure out what they were saying or HOW it actually did it.

AI is a tool right now. One that allows, as you said, machines to look at enormous amounts of data and to make sense of patterns it sees or that emerge after examination. It will remain a tool until a large enough repository of information exists that it can pull from to become an analog to real life. It'll never BE real life, but it will damn sure make it hard for anyone to be able to tell the difference.

This is all a controlled hallucination anyway. That's been proven. Your own brain fills in a lot of the info you "think" you see. You dont see each tree as you pass by in a car. Just an amalgamation of "tree image memories" that the brain fills in to save itself time. Autistic people are at one extreme where they DO see each tree, are fascinated by it, and experience it anew each time they see one. On the other extreme are paranoid schizophrenics that believe everything their brains tell them. EG, it's filling almost everything in. My wife's grandmother was a full blown institutionalized paranoid schizophrenic and it's fascinating to hear the stories my wife has about her ramblings and stuff.

And before you call me crazy, what is the universe but a thought bubble in the mind of God? The multiverse is a thing; we can see particles created by the annihilation of other particles that wink into existence and then right back out again defying the known laws of the universe. That energy cant be destroyed so it must "go" elsewhere.

What you're saying about autism doesn't sound correct. It's really more a fixation on details that separates autistics from others. If what you were saying was true there'd be no point in written communications because the brain would just make up words with whatever is in memory.

The big question is here is "when does it become alive or conscious", and simply using neural network latent variable linear models and random forest classification trees doesn't make a computer alive any more alive or conscious than a calculator.
03-21-2019 01:59 PM
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