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2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
High volume freshmen point guards are really rare. We gave the keys to the program to Kai almost immediately. That's where all the turnovers come from. And for those that actually watch him play rather than look at a stat sheet, they'll see that a lot of his turnovers come from trying to do "a little too much" rather than making a lot of boneheaded decisions. So is that number really his fault?

I've seen a lot of CAA posters praise Kai and say they wish they had him, so I find it hard to believe that W&M's viewpoint towards Kai, especially with Audige as their dog in the fight, really is representative of how the league felt about Toews.
03-11-2019 01:12 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
(03-11-2019 01:12 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  High volume freshmen point guards are really rare. We gave the keys to the program to Kai almost immediately. That's where all the turnovers come from. And for those that actually watch him play rather than look at a stat sheet, they'll see that a lot of his turnovers come from trying to do "a little too much" rather than making a lot of boneheaded decisions. So is that number really his fault?

I've seen a lot of CAA posters praise Kai and say they wish they had him, so I find it hard to believe that W&M's viewpoint towards Kai, especially with Audige as their dog in the fight, really is representative of how the league felt about Toews.

Agree, and would be nice if we had more schools on these boards to discuss that. As it stands we're limited in our input from fellow conference members. Especially considering Hofstra and NE have about 12 fans combined.
03-11-2019 01:21 PM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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Post: #43
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
(03-11-2019 01:12 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  That's where all the turnovers come from. And for those that actually watch him play rather than look at a stat sheet, they'll see that a lot of his turnovers come from trying to do "a little too much" rather than making a lot of boneheaded decisions. So is that number really his fault?
Then if you consider how many blown assits he likely had with our poor shooting(also not his fault)
03-11-2019 01:31 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
I am not trying to argue that Kai isnt great and didnt have a fantastic season but those turnover numbers are big enough to get hesitation from voters. And yes with that many turnovers to have a really good A/TO ratio shows how many assists he needed to cover up his TO's. If he even cut his turnovers by 15% I think you may be talking about ROY. Also if you look at the numbers I posted his turnovers actually increased during conference play on a per game basis.

And yes I think the top of this rookie class is something the entire league should be happy about and continue bring those types of players in. Those are the players that this league used to bring in regularly. That is how we all collectively raise the profile of our league back up. Good youth to replace the tried and true veteran players. Assuming we dont all get poached by the majors, there is some really good talent coming back next year and if we all continue to bring in solid freshman (which appears to be the case based on recruits comitted), this league may be getting close to that upswing we all have wanted.
03-11-2019 03:52 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
(03-11-2019 03:52 PM)dan10 Wrote:  I am not trying to argue that Kai isnt great and didnt have a fantastic season but those turnover numbers are big enough to get hesitation from voters. And yes with that many turnovers to have a really good A/TO ratio shows how many assists he needed to cover up his TO's. If he even cut his turnovers by 15% I think you may be talking about ROY. Also if you look at the numbers I posted his turnovers actually increased during conference play on a per game basis.

Not that surprising; familiarity and game tape showed teams a blueprint on how to beat us.
03-11-2019 07:43 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
Toews will be a great PG, no doubt. And he played really well this year. Since he hung his hat on assists...not scoring, shooting percentages, three point percentages, etc., you have to look at his TO's as well. And when you do that, his assist record is blemished. Sorry, that's just how it is. Yes, he turned the ball over trying to do too much. His passes were of a high risk, high reward nature. Unfortunately, he made a lot of TO's with those high risk passes. With no other real categories of strength, there just wasn't enough there to garner ROY credentials. And those TO's weren't because the players couldn't handle his passes, they were because of bad passes. So, asking "were the TO's really his fault" is a joke. Yes, they were.

This takes nothing away with what he can/will bring to the table in the future as he figures out the less risky passes that lead to turnovers and eliminates them. He also showed he can get to the rack and shoot from the outside. That came later in the season and didn't elevate his scoring enough to be a factor in voting. He was a 1st team rookie. I'll take it and hope he stays.
03-11-2019 08:29 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #47
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
(03-11-2019 08:29 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Toews will be a great PG, no doubt. And he played really well this year. Since he hung his hat on assists...not scoring, shooting percentages, three point percentages, etc., you have to look at his TO's as well. And when you do that, his assist record is blemished. Sorry, that's just how it is. Yes, he turned the ball over trying to do too much. His passes were of a high risk, high reward nature. Unfortunately, he made a lot of TO's with those high risk passes. With no other real categories of strength, there just wasn't enough there to garner ROY credentials. And those TO's weren't because the players couldn't handle his passes, they were because of bad passes. So, asking "were the TO's really his fault" is a joke. Yes, they were.

This takes nothing away with what he can/will bring to the table in the future as he figures out the less risky passes that lead to turnovers and eliminates them. He also showed he can get to the rack and shoot from the outside. That came later in the season and didn't elevate his scoring enough to be a factor in voting. He was a 1st team rookie. I'll take it and hope he stays.

I can't, and will not argue, that Wynter didn't deserve ROY. But, I will say, I'm very glad we have Toews. He's just getting started. And I'm excited to be going for the ride.
03-11-2019 09:22 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
Charleston down 3 and the refs just gift wrapped them with 3 FT attempts
03-11-2019 09:54 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 2019 Men’s Basketball All CAA Awards
(03-11-2019 01:12 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  I've seen a lot of CAA posters praise Kai and say they wish they had him, so I find it hard to believe that W&M's viewpoint towards Kai, especially with Audige as their dog in the fight, really is representative of how the league felt about Toews.

Whoa. That statement is not accurate. Many W&M posters have been praising Toews all year. Other than our own man, Audige, several of us (myself, Billymac, etc) named Toews as top rookie over Wynter or Horton. Look in some of our threads other than just the CAA Awards thread at the end of the year. Toews got a lot of respect from W&M (especially after he singlehandedly beat us in the first game; without looking, I'm sure that was his highest point total of the year).

As it developed, Audige's scoring went down late in the year and his per game averages were definitely hurt by the last game of the year where he played only two minutes, got hurt, and recorded no positive stats.

Toews also seemed to decline late in the year, while Wynter and Horton were both playing better (Horton scored 27 or so in his last game and Wynter scored about 16). Late pushes impress voters who don't bother to look at stats during the year.

I think that Horton might have actually gotten the ROY except that would have made 3 out of the last 4 for Delaware (I think) and maybe the voters didn't want to do that.
03-12-2019 01:57 PM
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