(03-09-2019 10:35 AM)TFW Wrote:  The bottom line is Rice can afford any amount necessary to keep any coach we want. The only question is are we willing to pay that much.

This whole issue of retaining Coach Langley is one of the most important issues in Rice athletics over the next 3-6 months. It is up to the AD to address this issue and retain the talent we have in place (both coaching talent and athletic talent).

It's up to more than Karlgaard. If we're going to up her salary to a level to keep her away from prominent P5 programs it will require BOT approval as it would exceed the current athletic department budget.

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

One can be very happy here at Rice and still be lured away to another school. A case in point-- Antonio Merlo, the superstar Dean of the School of Social Sciences and head of the Econ department. He loved it here-- even coached the mens and women's water polo teams, but was just recently lured away by NYU, who named him Dean of the Faculty of Arts & Sciences, overseeing everything at NYU except the professional grad schools (MBA, Law, Medicine and newly formed Engineering).

(03-09-2019 12:04 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

One can be very happy here at Rice and still be lured away to another school. A case in point-- Antonio Merlo, the superstar Dean of the School of Social Sciences and head of the Econ department. He loved it here-- even coached the mens and women's water polo teams, but was just recently lured away by NYU, who named him Dean of the Faculty of Arts & Sciences, overseeing everything at NYU except the professional grad schools (MBA, Law, Medicine and newly formed Engineering).

Merlo’s new position seems like it is a bit of a promotion from what he had here?

(03-09-2019 12:14 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 12:04 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

One can be very happy here at Rice and still be lured away to another school. A case in point-- Antonio Merlo, the superstar Dean of the School of Social Sciences and head of the Econ department. He loved it here-- even coached the mens and women's water polo teams, but was just recently lured away by NYU, who named him Dean of the Faculty of Arts & Sciences, overseeing everything at NYU except the professional grad schools (MBA, Law, Medicine and newly formed Engineering).

Merlo’s new position seems like it is a bit of a promotion from what he had here?

Yes, he has 6 deans reporting to him. NYU is also his alma mater. Having said that, he turned them down several times, but they were relentless in their pursuit. The job also includes a 3-bedroom condo in Gramercy Park. Not a bad perk.

(03-09-2019 10:55 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:50 AM)TFW Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:45 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

It isn't a question of not being happy. It's a question of ambition and getting to the top, which is what drives the best coaches more than money.

I don't think it is just ONE thing that drives anyone. Ambition is one. Recognition in your field is one. Personal happiness is one. The affect on family is one. Geographical location/weather is one. Money is one. Length of contract is one. I could go on and on.

To assume ambition is the only thing that drives Coach Langley or any coach is an oversimplification.

I'm not assuming anything. It's a fact that most really good coaches keep moving on up and are not going to stop at a mid-major if they get a shot at the big time. Coaches like Wayne Graham, who are both very good and very happy to stay at a small mid-major, are very rare. Is Langley one of those coaches? Maybe - I hope so. Statistically improbable, though.

Well, maybe this is a chicken-and-egg debate, but I think one could just as easily say that it's not good coaches willing to stay at mid-majors that is rare, it's mid-majors willing to step up and invest and make themselves perennially competitive and thus attractive to those coaches.

And of all the mid-majors in the country, Rice is indisputably the one that puts the least effort into doing that, relative to resources available.

(03-09-2019 02:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:55 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:50 AM)TFW Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:45 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

It isn't a question of not being happy. It's a question of ambition and getting to the top, which is what drives the best coaches more than money.

I don't think it is just ONE thing that drives anyone. Ambition is one. Recognition in your field is one. Personal happiness is one. The affect on family is one. Geographical location/weather is one. Money is one. Length of contract is one. I could go on and on.

To assume ambition is the only thing that drives Coach Langley or any coach is an oversimplification.

I'm not assuming anything. It's a fact that most really good coaches keep moving on up and are not going to stop at a mid-major if they get a shot at the big time. Coaches like Wayne Graham, who are both very good and very happy to stay at a small mid-major, are very rare. Is Langley one of those coaches? Maybe - I hope so. Statistically improbable, though.

Well, maybe this is a chicken-and-egg debate, but I think one could just as easily say that it's not good coaches willing to stay at mid-majors that is rare, it's mid-majors willing to step up and invest and make themselves perennially competitive and thus attractive to those coaches.

And of all the mid-majors in the country, Rice is indisputably the one that puts the least effort into doing that, relative to resources available.

There are some Ivies that probably fit that description, too, given the relatively large endowments at several of them. Harvard has stepped up with Amaker, and there could be some others (I don't pay attention to the pay details and success levels of those Ivy schools), but there are some relatively rich Ivies that aren't choosing to invest like that, either.

(03-09-2019 02:11 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 02:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:55 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:50 AM)TFW Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:45 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It isn't a question of not being happy. It's a question of ambition and getting to the top, which is what drives the best coaches more than money.

I don't think it is just ONE thing that drives anyone. Ambition is one. Recognition in your field is one. Personal happiness is one. The affect on family is one. Geographical location/weather is one. Money is one. Length of contract is one. I could go on and on.

To assume ambition is the only thing that drives Coach Langley or any coach is an oversimplification.

I'm not assuming anything. It's a fact that most really good coaches keep moving on up and are not going to stop at a mid-major if they get a shot at the big time. Coaches like Wayne Graham, who are both very good and very happy to stay at a small mid-major, are very rare. Is Langley one of those coaches? Maybe - I hope so. Statistically improbable, though.

Well, maybe this is a chicken-and-egg debate, but I think one could just as easily say that it's not good coaches willing to stay at mid-majors that is rare, it's mid-majors willing to step up and invest and make themselves perennially competitive and thus attractive to those coaches.

And of all the mid-majors in the country, Rice is indisputably the one that puts the least effort into doing that, relative to resources available.

There are some Ivies that probably fit that description, too, given the relatively large endowments at several of them. Harvard has stepped up with Amaker, and there could be some others (I don't pay attention to the pay details and success levels of those Ivy schools), but there are some relatively rich Ivies that aren't choosing to invest like that, either.

Yes, well, ok, but with all due respect, irrelevant. The Ivies are sui generis in Division I, are content to basically compete in their own little self-contained universe (which I would be too, were Rice in the Ivy League), and have no need to use athletics as a marketing tool rather than basically for internecine bragging rights (even so, there are programs in that league that manage to be regularly pretty competitive). I'm comparing us to the other roughly 275 Div. I schools that are neither P5 nor Ivy.