The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Yes Wade has a very weird style at the line - he leans left as he follow through with his shot which appears to have an impact .

Wade does tons of things right, but it's extremely surprising to be son of a former player and have an ugly stroke.

I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

(03-09-2019 08:37 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Wade does tons of things right, but it's extremely surprising to be son of a former player and have an ugly stroke.

Mind boggling. Include AC in that as well. Dad was a great shooter. How does that happen.

(03-10-2019 10:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 08:37 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Wade does tons of things right, but it's extremely surprising to be son of a former player and have an ugly stroke.

Mind boggling. Include AC in that as well. Dad was a great shooter. How does that happen.

Skips a generation?

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

(03-11-2019 12:27 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

Oh Yeah?? What about the Net ranking of the pause versus the fluid stroke? Have they covered that? What about the swish technique ? Have the coaches covered that one? The swish is the best, I know for a FACT!

Btw, not long after Blaine was hear, maybe third year, we were talking with him at the Bar-B-que. we asked him about foul shooting. his answer was a priceless Blaineism ! BT~ "The key to being a good foul shooting team is to recruit good foul shooters".

(03-11-2019 12:38 PM)mac Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 12:27 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

Oh Yeah?? What about the Net ranking of the pause versus the fluid stroke? Have they covered that? What about the swish technique ? Have the coaches covered that one? The swish is the best, I know for a FACT!

Btw, not long after Blaine was hear, maybe third year, we were talking with him at the Bar-B-que. we asked him about foul shooting. his answer was a priceless Blaineism ! BT~ "The key to being a good foul shooting team is to recruit good foul shooters".

Well played! Thank you

(03-11-2019 12:27 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

(03-11-2019 12:27 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

Roger that. We're just keyboard warriors on here throwing out random opinions into the cybersphere for all to criticize. I would assume (and apparently wrongly) that someone can re-tool their mechanics over the course of 4 years to have a better shot at making a free throw. Now, based on your post, I guess re-tooling the shot is less important than repetition maybe? I'm no expert and through out a question/suggestion (maybe delivered a bit snide) on what I thought I knew, you provided data that has forced me to re-visit my idea and now I have a new question: Does it make more sense to do more repetition of, considered "bad", mechanics to improve accuracy or to alter mechanics over time?

But like I mentioned before. I believe it's mental for most of our guys and fatigue at the end of a game. Just like anything in sports you get tired it gets harder to be consistent.

We shot what, 19 of 21 one game? So not like the team doesn't have the ability.

Does anyone has any thought on my new hypothesis? Does it make more sense to do more repetition of, considered "bad", mechanics to improve accuracy or to alter mechanics over time?

(03-11-2019 12:27 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but our FT problems have to be due to one of two things: 1) The coaches aren't prioritizing it/coaching it properly; or 2) The players simply can't shoot.

Per your post, you say the team works on it every day. I believe they do. But the results in games are awful, so either they aren't working on it correctly or the players simply lack the skill set. If it's the first...that's on coaching. If it's the second...that's on recruiting...and thus, coaching.

I refuse to believe that for 6 years (and more, if you go back to the BT tenure) that players are shooting well in practice but not in games. That defies all laws of probability and averages.

At some point, coaches have to put a premium on the ability of a player to shoot the ball and make free throws. Every year we continue to lose key games at the line. The one that sticks in my mind is the loss to then #1 Louisville several years ago. That's a waste and it's kept us out of the NCAA tournament too many times.

You guys say we're "keyboard warriors" and that we're not as knowledgeable as the coaches about basketball, and I concede that. But we're also not blind. When ODU ranks as one of the very worst teams in the nation in free throw shooting and has for years, we can see a problem and a trend.

I don't need to be an expert mechanic to know when my car is having problems. I don't need to be a professional coach to know my team can't shoot free throws. The point being, when something isn't working you try to fix it. Either yourself or with outside assistance.

So I decided to look up Blaine's early teams after remembering his statement: "The key to being a good foul shooting team is to recruit good foul shooters". His years after 2010 I didn't bother to look up since we all know that sad story.

Players who shot better then 70% listed.

2005- Team FT 72 %
Leaders:
Abdi Lidonde 86%
John Morris 79%
Arnaud Dahi 78%
Isiah Hunter 75%
Alex Loughton 75%

2006 -Team FT 72%
Leaders:
Arnaud Dahi 79%
Valdus Vasylius 76%
Drew Williamson 73%
Brian Henderson 78%

2007- Team FT- 72%
Leaders:
Brian Henderson 84%
Jonathan Adams 79%
Gerald Lee 74%
Brandon Johnson 71%

2008- Team FT- 67%
Leaders:
Brian Iliadis 80%
Jonathan Adams 78%
Gerald Lee 76%
Keyon Carter 71%

2009- Team FT %- 65%
Leaders:
Gerald lee- 76%
Marsharee Neely- 71%
BAZEMORE- 49% !!
COOPER 44% !!


2010- Team FT%- 67%
Leaders:
Trian Iliadis 83%
Darius James 82%
Frank Hassell 74%
COOPER UP TO 54%

Yeah, Blaine's first wave shot FTs much better than his 2nd wave.

I am not attacking the keyboard warriors but simply putting out the info that our coaches (and the ones back in the BT era) know FT shooting is a problem and do work on it. They do practice FT shooting at every practice and I mean it is a point of emphasis. *(I guess I would have to allow the possibility they just do it when I am there to trick me but I consider that unlikely.) My impression is they believe the problem is mental as in an issue of losing confidence. Look how Caver and Ezikpe were doing earlier in the season as opposed to how they are doing now. I am very certain nothing was done in practice to make them shoot worse. I don't want to give out specifics (each grouping is watched by a coach who keeps the numbers/percentages and coaches them) but in all of the practices I have been to this year the team as a whole shoots around 75%. But, of course, that is not in a game and without thousands of fans screaming at you and with the game on the line. I am impressed on here by how good some of you were (or maybe still are) but back almost 50 years ago now I dreaded the thought of going to the line with the game hanging on my FTs and that was just HS. I feared I would wiff and miss everything. My best friend at the time (and still) knew he would swish both in that situation. If you are old enough to remember back then, teams would put in a specialist to dribble around and be fouled. My buddy shot over 90% in practice and was just as good in games. He was always in at the end. My thinking is if you have the confidence that makes a big difference and if you don't practice (at least in my case) would not overcome it, the nervousness. I just wanted you folks to know our Coaches/Team is not ignoring it and most of the suggestions on here have been tried. I know because since I am retired I get to go to some practices. So I have had my say and as I try to stay out of the nasty fights I will retire from this thread. Thanks

There used to be a college I watched in practice that used a device that fit inside the ring of the basket that made it even smaller. In order for the ball to go through, the shot had to be perfect. Used for FTs. They also had machines that spit the ball back to a person standing at the line, so they could just stand there and shoot. Maybe they still do; I'm not able to get to practices. I saw it improve players' percentages because they needed increased concentration.
Of course, they had to cut a hole in the peach basket back then, too.

(03-11-2019 12:38 PM)mac Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 12:27 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(03-11-2019 07:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:20 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I've noticed many of the poor shooters have a halting style. They will bring the ball up over their head, then stop for a second and actually shoot the ball with their wrists. Shouldn't a shot be one continous fluid motion?

Same. There is two motions for sure but the bad ones have really long pauses. At least it won't keep you out of the NBA - see Markelle Fultz. I watched Dad Stith shoot around and how he can't or hasn't worked on those with the guys escapes me.

Oh Good Grief! Of course he, Dad Stith, works on it with the team. Every day, in fact, at practice. He also taught both his sons how to shoot FTs and one is great and one was not so much. Shockingly enough our coaches know how to shoot free throws and know it is an important skill. They have also done everything suggested on this Message Board, practiced it, with noise, without noise, brought in FT specialist, brought in a Team Psychologist, used old ODU greats to chat it up and so on. *(In truth to my knowledge we have not tried underhand and I have also mentioned that one years ago.) In practice we shoot them pretty well but in game with the pressure on and sometimes fatigue as a factor we don't do well. Alas, our coaches lack the self-realized magic touch of those who post on Message Boards and in that they fail. All the rest of your suggestions and the thought they have not thought of them or choose to not use them is just silly. I apologize for saying the obvious and tried to stay out of it but finally broke down as this FT stuff has continued all the way back through many of the BT years. If you want to know what they do in practice, ask permission and they will let you come in and watch. At least a few of you will be shocked to learn our coaches know almost as much about basketball as you do.

Oh Yeah?? What about the Net ranking of the pause versus the fluid stroke? Have they covered that? What about the swish technique ? Have the coaches covered that one? The swish is the best, I know for a FACT!

Btw, not long after Blaine was hear, maybe third year, we were talking with him at the Bar-B-que. we asked him about foul shooting. his answer was a priceless Blaineism ! BT~ "The key to being a good foul shooting team is to recruit good foul shooters".

Blaine’s quotes are one of the big things I miss about him. I loved the one that was something like “All Hat and no horse”. His quotes were the best!!

One last thing from the past. Just a couple of my favorite players.

Petey Sessoms 82% Career Foul Shooter
Best Year 83% Foul shooter.
Best year : 22 ppg, 8.4 Rpg-
CAA Player of the Year.
HOW THE HELL IS NUMBER NOT RETIRED ??? He was great from day one.


Odell Hodge 70% Career Foul Shooter
Best Year 83% Foul Shooter. (Only played 4 games, got hurt)
Best Year: 19 ppg, 9 rebounds.
TWO TIME CAA Player

Dave Twardzik-
Best Year- 85% FT %- 23.4 PPG, 11.4 assists PG. ALL SAME YEAR. Best Monarch ever. Went on to play in the ABA then the NBA.

What I saw at one practice, was the coach showing two basketballs going thru the hoop at the same time.