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Kent State vs. Akron
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Very happy for the team and program. Guys like Avery don’t come around too often. What a performance. Whittington was a heck of a find, too. Tremendous coaching job all year but man, especially tonight.

I hope Trevor’s record stands.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2019 01:47 AM by JimJoyce.)
03-09-2019 01:46 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Unless I completely misunderstood Senderoff's post-game comments, he implied that Buffalo is the best team ever to be at the top of the MAC and that the MAC is the best it has ever been. If that is what he was really implying, I have to disagree.
03-09-2019 03:52 AM
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burden Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-08-2019 09:27 PM)Lambert58 Wrote:  
(03-08-2019 07:25 PM)burden Wrote:  At least we are hanging in there. It really took the edge off this game though. I’d watch the MAC wrestling but that would be even more depressing.

Last place, the last time I looked...

Yeah but we are right on the tail of SIU Edwardsville
03-09-2019 10:28 AM
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burden Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-09-2019 03:52 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Unless I completely misunderstood Senderoff's post-game comments, he implied that Buffalo is the best team ever to be at the top of the MAC and that the MAC is the best it has ever been. If that is what he was really implying, I have to disagree.


I think he mentioned our 2002 team and said he was a bit biased since it was from Kent. In other words it was a very political answer.
03-09-2019 10:30 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
True, Burden. Naming the best MAC team of all time would be tough. Ball State had some terrific, ranked teams under Majerus. My first year at Kent state, 1963/64, Ohio had a great team that went to the "elite eight" (fewer tournament games back then, with a 25 team field). They beat Louisville twice that year, including in the NCAA tournament. They also easily beat an Adolf Rupp Kentucky team in the tournament. They only then lost by 12 to a legendary Cazzie Russel/Bill Buntin Michigan team. I'm sure there are others I can't think of. Buffalo has a great team. We'll have to wait and see what they do from here on out. No doubt KSU's 2002 team is in the all-time elite teams, at least in the top five or better.


Sendy and the staff have to be applauded for coaxing at least 22 wins out of this squad, losing De la Rosa and Pippen and having Walker miss so many games and Avery a few, too. They brought in some good players to fill in the gaps.
03-09-2019 11:35 AM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-09-2019 11:35 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  True, Burden. Naming the best MAC team of all time would be tough. Ball State had some terrific, ranked teams under Majerus. My first year at Kent state, 1963/64, Ohio had a great team that went to the "elite eight" (fewer tournament games back then, with a 25 team field). They beat Louisville twice that year, including in the NCAA tournament. They also easily beat an Adolf Rupp Kentucky team in the tournament. They only then lost by 12 to a legendary Cazzie Russel/Bill Buntin Michigan team. I'm sure there are others I can't think of. Buffalo has a great team. We'll have to wait and see what they do from here on out. No doubt KSU's 2002 team is in the all-time elite teams, at least in the top five or better.


Sendy and the staff have to be applauded for coaxing at least 22 wins out of this squad, losing De la Rosa and Pippen and having Walker miss so many games and Avery a few, too. They brought in some good players to fill in the gaps.
Good points about MAC hoops teams - if memory serves me one of those Ball State team teams was very close to beating the Tark led UNLV team that won the title that year.
I have in the past voiced my skepticism about hype and transfers - but this group seemed to mesh well and contribute as the season progressed.
03-09-2019 11:57 AM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-08-2019 07:35 PM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  If he doesn't play any more this season - I won't watch

I have to say, this is a pretty horrible stance. We don’t know what he did/didn’t do, but I think we can all agree it had to be pretty serious to be held out of senior night against a rival in a critical game.

Why would you then penalize the rest of the team - which is innocent, and guilty only of playing its ass off for 31 games - by refusing to watch if one knucklehead is bounced off the team?

Seems pretty darn backward to me.
03-09-2019 01:47 PM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-09-2019 01:47 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  
(03-08-2019 07:35 PM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  If he doesn't play any more this season - I won't watch

I have to say, this is a pretty horrible stance. We don’t know what he did/didn’t do, but I think we can all agree it had to be pretty serious to be held out of senior night against a rival in a critical game.

Why would you then penalize the rest of the team - which is innocent, and guilty only of playing its ass off for 31 games - by refusing to watch if one knucklehead is bounced off the team?

Seems pretty darn backward to me.
You're right - it was an over reaction - I've heard rumors of a fight with a teammate
03-09-2019 01:56 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
That turned out to be a pretty fun game to watch. Some ugly basketball at the start. Probably lucky we were playing Akron. They are not good. There was a stretch in the first half where our offense had gone stagnant but it seemed like Akron's bad 3 point shooting kept us in the game.

Avery has been a really enjoyable player to watch the last few years. I don't know what his future plans are, but I hope last night wasn't the last time we see him at the MACC. If he wants to go into coaching I suspect he'd be very good at it.

Hopefully Walker's latest suspension is just a one gamer. We're now 5-1 without him so at least we've shown we can compete without him, albeit against some of our weaker opponents. I don't think we have much of a shot at a deep run in the MAC tourny without him though. Not having him as a crutch during bad offensive stretches hurts but interestingly I feel losing him as a rebounder might have as big of an impact. We're not a very good defensive rebounding team and Walker's currently 2nd on the team with 3.9 DREB per game. His defensive rebound percent (which is an estimate of the percentage of available defensive rebounds he gets while on the court) is at 13%. He's 5th on the team in that metric behind Whittington, Duling, Williamson, and Frederick. Roberts was the guy that saw the biggest bump in minutes last night to make up for Walker. His Def Reb % is 8.1% which is second to last on the team (only Avery is lower). Walker nearly doubles Roberts' Offensive Reb % as well. Translation, rebounding is not a strength and playing Roberts over Walker makes us significantly worse. I like Roberts a lot, but if we have to play without Walker again bumping Williamson's minutes instead of Roberts might be the better plan as he's third on the team with a Def Reb % of 14.2.
03-09-2019 03:24 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Whittington, Williams, Roberts, Williamson, Pippen.

I can live with that. I like it. Plus, I would expect Sendy to come up with one or two key additions as usual. This will be a strong team next year.
03-09-2019 06:45 PM
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GFlash68 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Looks good to me and I am sure there are additions.
03-09-2019 06:53 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Troy Simons has a decent resume. Maybe Peterson will finish strong and/or Duling will "gel".
03-09-2019 06:59 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Don't assume Whittington is a lock to be back. He sat out a year when he transferred so he should be eligible to leave as a grad transfer. Really hope he stays. I think him and Pippen would fit together really well and they are both very good rebounders so they should free our guards up to get out and run. I'm sure the coaches will point to De La Rosa as an example for why he should stay.

Losing him would hurt, but I really like what we have coming back and coming in. Anyone hear how Simons has looked in practice? I expect a lot from him. If Whittington stays next year's team could be really good.
03-09-2019 07:00 PM
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Slinkin Street Flash Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
I usually appreciate the Sagarin computer rankings - they have all the teams ranked, and I have a database of their rankings going back 15 years - but I can't figure out how they have Acorn ranked 3rd in the MAC. They really don't have any big nonconference wins except for torching St Bonaventure 61-49. Their other big nonconference 'wins' were probably a 72-69 loss to #16 Clemson and a 68-62 loss to #6 Nevada.

Sagarin does have most of the MAC tightly bunched - from Acorn in 3rd [126th nationally] down to Eastern Michigan in 10th [154th nationally] - it's probably not statistically significant within the ranking system, so maybe I shouldn't fret about it.
03-11-2019 08:45 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-11-2019 08:45 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  I usually appreciate the Sagarin computer rankings - they have all the teams ranked, and I have a database of their rankings going back 15 years - but I can't figure out how they have Acorn ranked 3rd in the MAC. They really don't have any big nonconference wins except for torching St Bonaventure 61-49. Their other big nonconference 'wins' were probably a 72-69 loss to #16 Clemson and a 68-62 loss to #6 Nevada.

Sagarin does have most of the MAC tightly bunched - from Acorn in 3rd [126th nationally] down to Eastern Michigan in 10th [154th nationally] - it's probably not statistically significant within the ranking system, so maybe I shouldn't fret about it.

After Buffalo and Toledo at the top??? ... every metric you want to check (RPI, Sagarin, NET, KenPom, BPI, KPI) is all over the place with MAC teams. Akron as high as No. 3 in the league and as low as 7/8. Same for Kent. Go figure.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2019 08:50 AM by cleveland.)
03-11-2019 08:50 AM
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burden Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-11-2019 08:50 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 08:45 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  I usually appreciate the Sagarin computer rankings - they have all the teams ranked, and I have a database of their rankings going back 15 years - but I can't figure out how they have Acorn ranked 3rd in the MAC. They really don't have any big nonconference wins except for torching St Bonaventure 61-49. Their other big nonconference 'wins' were probably a 72-69 loss to #16 Clemson and a 68-62 loss to #6 Nevada.

Sagarin does have most of the MAC tightly bunched - from Acorn in 3rd [126th nationally] down to Eastern Michigan in 10th [154th nationally] - it's probably not statistically significant within the ranking system, so maybe I shouldn't fret about it.

After Buffalo and Toledo at the top??? ... every metric you want to check (RPI, Sagarin, NET, KenPom, BPI, KPI) is all over the place with MAC teams. Akron as high as No. 3 in the league and as low as 7/8. Same for Kent. Go figure.

I think slinkin street flash has explained why. The difference between 100 and 250 or so is pretty small. Akron was overcreditted for their close losses to Clemson and Nevada. More than likely neither of those teams were engaged in that game and the margin of victory in no way represented the difference between those teams. That’s an issue with ratings that weight margin of victory. In this particular rating Akron flipped the coin three times and called it right. Just random chance. In no why is Akron the third best team in the MAC.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2019 09:14 AM by burden.)
03-11-2019 09:13 AM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
I’m also not so sure Pippen will be back. I have no inside info but I do know there seems to always be drama with him.
03-11-2019 09:25 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-11-2019 09:13 AM)burden Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 08:50 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 08:45 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  I usually appreciate the Sagarin computer rankings - they have all the teams ranked, and I have a database of their rankings going back 15 years - but I can't figure out how they have Acorn ranked 3rd in the MAC. They really don't have any big nonconference wins except for torching St Bonaventure 61-49. Their other big nonconference 'wins' were probably a 72-69 loss to #16 Clemson and a 68-62 loss to #6 Nevada.

Sagarin does have most of the MAC tightly bunched - from Acorn in 3rd [126th nationally] down to Eastern Michigan in 10th [154th nationally] - it's probably not statistically significant within the ranking system, so maybe I shouldn't fret about it.

After Buffalo and Toledo at the top??? ... every metric you want to check (RPI, Sagarin, NET, KenPom, BPI, KPI) is all over the place with MAC teams. Akron as high as No. 3 in the league and as low as 7/8. Same for Kent. Go figure.

I think slinkin street flash has explained why. The difference between 100 and 250 or so is pretty small. Akron was overcreditted for their close losses to Clemson and Nevada. More than likely neither of those teams were engaged in that game and the margin of victory in no way represented the difference between those teams. That’s an issue with ratings that weight margin of victory. In this particular rating Akron flipped the coin three times and called it right. Just random chance. In no why is Akron the third best team in the MAC.

To use Akron/Kent as an example, What I get out of this is ... the metrics that include style of play-type stuff and margin of victory seem to favor one team (Akron) over another (Kent) ... metrics that seem to stick to basics (win/lose, home/road etc). seem to favor one (Kent) over the other (Akron).
03-11-2019 09:26 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Kent being undervalued on the ranking systems makes sense. We win a lot, but we win close games. When we do lose we really lose. Also, the Vanderbilt win looks a lot worse when you realize they went 0-17 in conference this year. With that said, I wouldn't want to be facing us in Cleveland with 2 minutes to go in a tied game.
03-11-2019 10:55 AM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Vanderbilt really did go winless in the SEC. That is remarkable. Their PG who got injured in the first 2 min of our game missed the entire season. He is probably going to be a lottery pick.
03-11-2019 11:43 AM
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