The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Wanted to keep this separate from the congrats to Ahmad thread, but it got me thinking about the D1 Monarch point guards. I never saw Dave T play, so I cant speak about him but my faves would probably shake out like this.

1. Drew Williamson. - Fantastic ball distributor, ball handler and clutch when needed. He had an uncanny ability to know where to get the ball at the exact moment. Of course it helped that he was surrounded by so many incredibly talented teammates. My favorite PG on my favorite Monarch teams. I loved hearing the crowds yell Drewwwwwwwwwwwww when he came out.

2. Trey Freeman. - That guy could do it all. Im not sure Ive ever seen a more offensive minded point guard at ODU. Of course, the team he led required that, but man... that guy was amazing.

3. Ahmad Caver - The iron man. His stamina, guts, and heart are unquestionable. So steady bringing the ball up, has a great grasp of the offense and while a little inconsistent, has hit some incredibly big shots at the most critical times. A true winner.

4. Darius James. - Mr consistent. Calm, cool, and collected. The right guy to lead one of the most talented groups of Monarchs ever. He didnt need to score tons, or make flashy passes, he just needed to handle the rock, not turn it over and get it to his teammates at the right time... and he he did that time and time and time again. Plus he's just a great guy.

5. Brandon "Mad Dog" Johnson- The flip side to the Drew Williamson coin. Drew wouldnt have ever been as good as he was without Brandon dogging him in practice. And he surely shined in his own way when the team reins were handed to him. Plus, how do you not love a guy who gets shot, and returns to play just a few games later. Crazy.

6. Brion Dunlap - Similar to Darius only with less offense. Brion led ODU to tons of wins by not turning the ball over and hitting clutch free throws. Any player who leads a squad to a triple overtime win against Villanova is an all time great in my book.

Who are you guy's favorite Monarch point guards over the years?

1- Dave Twardzik- HANDS DOWN.- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208422016
David J. Twardzik became Old Dominion University's initial first team All-American basketball player after leading the Monarchs to the runner-up honors in the 1971 NCAA Division II national championships.

20 assists in a single game
24-26 foul shooting in a single game.

2-Frank Smith- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208422080
completed his career in 1988 as the NCAA's third all-time assist leader

Smith led the Sun Belt Conference in 1986, and 1988 with 8.1 assists per game. He led the league with a career best of 8.2 in 1987, ranking him in the nation's top ten in all three of those seasons.

3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

(03-06-2019 09:44 AM)monarx Wrote:  Who are you guy's favorite Monarch point guards over the years?

Gerald Lee, in the CAA tournament (against VCU, I think). -- j/k, of course.

I endorse your list, but (in a very close call) would switch Trey Freeman and Drew Williamson.

Dave Twardzik likewise predated me, but I am sure that he will top many of the oldtimer lists.

Trey deserved a game in the NCAA Tournament. We were so close.

Is this your list in order? Very good list either way.

I would go:

Dave T.
Freeman
Caver
Smith
Williamson
Dunlop
James/Johnson/Nance

(03-06-2019 10:22 AM)mac Wrote:  3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

If I did my math correctly, Ahmad breaks this record tonight, as I don't believe he's missed a game in his career.

(03-06-2019 10:34 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:22 AM)mac Wrote:  3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

If I did my math correctly, Ahmad breaks this record tonight, as I don't believe he's missed a game in his career.

Stats show he's played every game. But, looking back, my memory sucks. Why did he not start 2-3 games last year?

(03-06-2019 10:34 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:22 AM)mac Wrote:  3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

If I did my math correctly, Ahmad breaks this record tonight, as I don't believe he's missed a game in his career.

Awesome Coach!

(03-06-2019 10:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:34 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:22 AM)mac Wrote:  3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

If I did my math correctly, Ahmad breaks this record tonight, as I don't believe he's missed a game in his career.

Stats show he's played every game. But, looking back, my memory sucks. Why did he not start 2-3 games last year?

The only game he didn't start last year was senior night. Pinckney got the start.

(03-06-2019 10:22 AM)mac Wrote:  1- Dave Twardzik- HANDS DOWN.- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208422016
David J. Twardzik became Old Dominion University's initial first team All-American basketball player after leading the Monarchs to the runner-up honors in the 1971 NCAA Division II national championships.

20 assists in a single game
24-26 foul shooting in a single game.

2-Frank Smith- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208422080
completed his career in 1988 as the NCAA's third all-time assist leader

Smith led the Sun Belt Conference in 1986, and 1988 with 8.1 assists per game. He led the league with a career best of 8.2 in 1987, ranking him in the nation's top ten in all three of those seasons.

3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

Ditto

(03-06-2019 10:57 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:34 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:22 AM)mac Wrote:  3- Drew Willamson- http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=208417835

He holds the school record for consecutive career games played having made 130 appearances in the ODU uniform. He is the third all-time leader in steals with 215 and is seventh all-time at ODU and eighth all-time in the CAA in career assists with 555. Williamson along with former Monarch Frank Smith ('88) are the only Monarchs to have recorded over 200 career steals and 500 career assists.

Lots of other good ones, these are the best that I have seen, along WITH CAVER.

If I did my math correctly, Ahmad breaks this record tonight, as I don't believe he's missed a game in his career.

Stats show he's played every game. But, looking back, my memory sucks. Why did he not start 2-3 games last year?

The only game he didn't start last year was senior night. Pinckney got the start.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ver-1.html

I don't remember him not starting either.

It says he didn't start vs. Southern Miss (but played 40 mins so wrong). Says he didn't start @Western Kentucky?

(03-06-2019 11:18 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ver-1.html

I don't remember him not starting either.

It says he didn't start vs. Southern Miss (but played 40 mins so wrong). Says he didn't start @Western Kentucky?

I think they're wrong. Our media guide says he has started every game since his sophomore year except for one.

YR GP/GS FG PCT 3PT FG PCT FT PCT REBS-AV A STLS PTS-AVG
16 38-0 35-113 .310 13-48 .271 18-36 .500 67-1.8 67 23 101-2.7
17 31-31 130-361 .360 67-182 .368 76-121 .628 110-3.5 150 41 403-13.0
18 32-31 155-380 .408 65-186 .349 78-117 .667 113-3.5 197 73 453-14.2
TLS 101-62 320-854 .375 145-416 .349 172-274 .628 290-2.9 314 137 957-9.5

Rather than retype. I’ll modify this list.

(03-06-2019 10:31 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Is this your list in order? Very good list either way.

I would go:

Dave T.
Freeman
Caver
Williamson
Smith

Going to stop at 5.

Johnson did not play enough to get on my list. Dunlop was a true PG. But he could not score. I don’t think he drove the lane particularly well.

I also have Smith at 5 for similar reasons. He did not score. It is called “POINT guard” not merely “Pass the ball Guard”. Just my personal preferences. I like a guard that can score and not just facilitate.

First PG as an ODU fan was Nance. Since then, my top 5 are:

Freeman
Caver
Williamson
Johnson
James

Nit picking, but since they are both in very recent memory, I would put Caver ahead of Freeman. Freeman was an insane scorer and could 1v9 (sorry, that's dumb gaming talk for he could one versus the entire other team despite his own team sucking). But he wasn't a great passer, he wasn't a great defender. Caver obviously isn't as good of a scorer as Freeman but I think he has the better defense, better passing, better running the offense and IQ (something that should be valuable at the PG position).

People are forgetting Oliver Purnell

I would 100% rank Ahmad over Trey Freeman. Just opinion based, but I believe he is a perfect PG. He has been asked to do a lot over the course of his career.

(03-06-2019 01:11 PM)757ODU Wrote:  I would 100% rank Ahmad over Trey Freeman. Just opinion based, but I believe he is a perfect PG. He has been asked to do a lot over the course of his career.

Freeman carried the whole team on offense and almost got an at large bid single-handedly. Ahmad has a lot more support. The roles are completely different. Whether Freeman could fulfill Ahmad's role is unknown. Ahmad would not be nearly as successful fulfilling Freeman's role. That's the difference in my book, but it was a close call.

Great list and good thoughts by all but as someone suggested would happen, as an "Old Timer" (aka old fogey) I would have to put Twardzik at the top. Some of his stats are noted in a previous post and I would add 1,660 point (remembering Frosh could not play back then) and we had shorter seasons. He also could jump out of the gym. In fact, he sometimes jumped center for us and usually won. In addition, he had the heart of a Lion and his motor never stopped. Finally, for those who think we remember those times to fondly and he really wasn't all that great. Remember he started at PG for the NBA Champions and Portland retired his jersey at the end of his career. Until we have another PG do that he is the best. Still love the other folks and we have had a lot of good ones both on and off the court.

(03-06-2019 01:11 PM)757ODU Wrote:  I would 100% rank Ahmad over Trey Freeman. Just opinion based, but I believe he is a perfect PG. He has been asked to do a lot over the course of his career.

Freeman is certainly not the defender Caver is. And he was not the passer Caver was, but Freeman could take over games like very few in the CUSA have done. He did so at an insanely good efficiency and without ever turning the ball over. He also was a pretty good rebounder for a guard and make his foul shots.

I love Caver as much as anyone, but he's a hair behind Freeman in my book.