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Seahawkhoops Online
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Expectations for next year....
This discussion started on the recruiting thread, figured i'd bring it here as to not derail that thread further.................


33- i hear you about CB's contract and am not suggesting we move on yet. My suggestion was on him stepping outside his box and hiring a defensive guru for his staff to help. Good coaches surround themselves with people that can help improve their weaknesses, clearly, this is one of his.
03-05-2019 07:50 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-05-2019 07:50 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  This discussion started on the recruiting thread, figured i'd bring it here as to not derail that thread further.................


33- i hear you about CB's contract and am not suggesting we move on yet. My suggestion was on him stepping outside his box and hiring a defensive guru for his staff to help. Good coaches surround themselves with people that can help improve their weaknesses, clearly, this is one of his.d

This is where it gets confusing. Manuel was a defensive stalwart at UNC. Unless he just can't translate his ability, it is puzzling. Our players look too timid to take that one or two more steps out at the shooter. They get their hands up on shooters. They are contesting shots, but it seems that many times they take that extra step forward as the ball is being released. Sitting right there on the floor, I see us getting better open threes than our opponents. And we miss too many of those shots. We need Gadsden taking more shots. And we need wings like Flemming and Bryce who are long and a danger to knock down threes or drive it to the hole.
I really like what Fornes can do one on one, not one on three. I'm hoping Boggs will be one of those wings like Flemmings and Bryce were.
03-05-2019 08:39 PM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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RE: Expectations for next year....
Good defensive assessments. Sims can be that longer guy and we may have 1 coming, let’s see.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2019 08:58 PM by billthebighawksfan.)
03-05-2019 08:55 PM
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82hawk Offline
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RE: Expectations for next year....
The problem you run into at the mid major level is that players with length, who can use that length to defend, aren't usually great scorers as well. If they have length and can score, they aren't playing at UNCW, they're playing at UNC.

So, your defensive scheme at UNCW cannot be the one you learned at UNC, since you don't have the length at every position you're used to. Ok, what does a good defense look like if you don't have length?

1. You can run a real press like UNCW used to and UNCG does now. Running the press allows you to recruit high volume scorers lacking Power conference size. We've seen over and over again that size does not determine scoring ability, but it can be a big defensive liability.

2. You can play a zone to stop penetration and interior post ups. Hofstra is a great example of a team built on smaller players who can score but have defensive deficits due to size.

3. You can play a slow tempo game like CofC, where you rely on the great defense of bigger, athletic players who aren't high D1 caliber scorers. Keep the games low scoring and close, and try to close out games with great defense and a few guys who can score. Ala' UNCW in the BB days.

That's about it at the mid major level. The problem I see right now is we aren't playing a style of play that fits any of those strategies. We want to run and play man to man, but don't have either size or great scorers on the roster. We don't press to create TO's, we press to run clock. We won't play zone either. We basically play UNC ball without UNC caliber players and that's a proven, losing strategy at the mid major level. Ask Buzz or Lebo how that worked out. And now, McGrath has implemented the same failed strategy they did.


So, as much as i'd like to think we can continue with the same strategy with some players having more experience or bringing in a few recruits and start winning, I just don't see it. Something HAS to change or we may improve slightly, but will still remain in the bottom half of the CAA.
03-05-2019 09:39 PM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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Expectations for next year....
Agree with 82 here in regards to strategy. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!
In terms of Manual, being a good defensive player and teaching defense are two entirely different things. Maybe his skills don’t translate to his coaching, that happens.

One thing I left out is the comparison to BB’s .500 season and the chirping. I’d die to be .500! The teams the past two seasons were so far away from .500 it’s hard to think about it.


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03-06-2019 07:49 AM
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Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 07:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!

The irony of this thread and this statement together are almost too much for my human mind to handle.



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03-06-2019 08:08 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-05-2019 09:39 PM)82hawk Wrote:  The problem you run into at the mid major level is that players with length, who can use that length to defend, aren't usually great scorers as well. If they have length and can score, they aren't playing at UNCW, they're playing at UNC.

So, your defensive scheme at UNCW cannot be the one you learned at UNC, since you don't have the length at every position you're used to. Ok, what does a good defense look like if you don't have length?

1. You can run a real press like UNCW used to and UNCG does now. Running the press allows you to recruit high volume scorers lacking Power conference size. We've seen over and over again that size does not determine scoring ability, but it can be a big defensive liability.

2. You can play a zone to stop penetration and interior post ups. Hofstra is a great example of a team built on smaller players who can score but have defensive deficits due to size.

3. You can play a slow tempo game like CofC, where you rely on the great defense of bigger, athletic players who aren't high D1 caliber scorers. Keep the games low scoring and close, and try to close out games with great defense and a few guys who can score. Ala' UNCW in the BB days.

That's about it at the mid major level. The problem I see right now is we aren't playing a style of play that fits any of those strategies. We want to run and play man to man, but don't have either size or great scorers on the roster. We don't press to create TO's, we press to run clock. We won't play zone either. We basically play UNC ball without UNC caliber players and that's a proven, losing strategy at the mid major level. Ask Buzz or Lebo how that worked out. And now, McGrath has implemented the same failed strategy they did.


So, as much as i'd like to think we can continue with the same strategy with some players having more experience or bringing in a few recruits and start winning, I just don't see it. Something HAS to change or we may improve slightly, but will still remain in the bottom half of the CAA.

FWIW, Option 3 used to be the go-to method for success, with rule changes over the past 5 or so years, that option is very difficult to make work. That was the style of the old CAA, quite honestly. VCU changed that with their "Havoc" under Shaka. Now that style is really the way to go. As much as many of us would still like option 3 to be a legit option, it really is not. There are too many possessions now and too many fouls called to make that style work. The reason Charleston can sort of get away with it is because they have a big who can shoot 3 at a high enough rate while still playing strong in the post (Brantley). Those types of players, as you alluded to, typically dont find their way on a mid major roster, they are playing in power conferences.
03-06-2019 08:24 AM
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 08:24 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The reason Charleston can sort of get away with it is because they have a big who can shoot 3 at a high enough rate while still playing strong in the post (Brantley). Those types of players, as you alluded to, typically dont find their way on a mid major roster, they are playing in power conferences.
Brantley is shooting threes .324, which is way down from .385 last season, and it's his worst percentage shooting threes in any season, albeit he made one-third as a freshman and could get above that.
03-06-2019 08:38 AM
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 07:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Agree with 82 here in regards to strategy. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!
In terms of Manual, being a good defensive player and teaching defense are two entirely different things. Maybe his skills don’t translate to his coaching, that happens.

One thing I left out is the comparison to BB’s .500 season and the chirping. I’d die to be .500! The teams the past two seasons were so far away from .500 it’s hard to think about it.


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Yep, .500 is much better than what we have. But there were much higher expectations. Which led to grumblings that Brownell couldn't continue the Wainright success. Most people didn't know that Brad was the X's and O's guy even when Wainright was here. And even with the big turnaround, he was still undermined by our AD and a couple of money supporters. And with the use of some cronies, they caused Brad to walk away when he was wanting to extend his contract.
03-06-2019 08:38 AM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 08:38 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Agree with 82 here in regards to strategy. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!
In terms of Manual, being a good defensive player and teaching defense are two entirely different things. Maybe his skills don’t translate to his coaching, that happens.

One thing I left out is the comparison to BB’s .500 season and the chirping. I’d die to be .500! The teams the past two seasons were so far away from .500 it’s hard to think about it.


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Yep, .500 is much better than what we have. But there were much higher expectations. Which led to grumblings that Brownell couldn't continue the Wainright success. Most people didn't know that Brad was the X's and O's guy even when Wainright was here. And even with the big turnaround, he was still undermined by our AD and a couple of money supporters. And with the use of some cronies, they caused Brad to walk away when he was wanting to extend his contract.
Unfortunately, we all know how that situation went down :( Did BB underachieve with that team? I went to every home game and i can't remember that team. CB obviously gets a pass for last year, regressing even further this year is what has me worried.
03-06-2019 08:56 AM
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 08:56 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 08:38 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Agree with 82 here in regards to strategy. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!
In terms of Manual, being a good defensive player and teaching defense are two entirely different things. Maybe his skills don’t translate to his coaching, that happens.

One thing I left out is the comparison to BB’s .500 season and the chirping. I’d die to be .500! The teams the past two seasons were so far away from .500 it’s hard to think about it.


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Yep, .500 is much better than what we have. But there were much higher expectations. Which led to grumblings that Brownell couldn't continue the Wainright success. Most people didn't know that Brad was the X's and O's guy even when Wainright was here. And even with the big turnaround, he was still undermined by our AD and a couple of money supporters. And with the use of some cronies, they caused Brad to walk away when he was wanting to extend his contract.
Unfortunately, we all know how that situation went down :( Did BB underachieve with that team? I went to every home game and i can't remember that team. CB obviously gets a pass for last year, regressing even further this year is what has me worried.

Just to be clear. I have my concerns about where we are at with the program. I choose not to compound the issue on social media. Especially when we really have no other choice for next season but to hope it turns around. If it doesn't, then there is more leverage to make changes with our coaching staff.
03-06-2019 09:11 AM
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Expectations for next year....
One that that hasn’t really been discussed as much about our defense, the direction CB wants it to go in, etc is the pieces.

Until we have players at all positions who are taught and can play M2M effectively, it won’t work. As great as Cacok was here, he wasn’t a great defender and not big enough to have a significant shot blocking presence. He made up for all that with his tenacity for rebounds and aggressive play though.

My point is that if we want an effective defense of any type really, we need a solid post defender. The reason guards were able to finish so often in the paint against us was always because once they blow by the back court there weren’t any real front court defensive threats to stop them, especially once we needed Cacok to stay out of foul trouble.

Sims really started to look like a solid piece to fill a “Flemmings” style role for us later in the season, and I’m excited to see his continued progression there.

I’m hoping Dodd and Boggs are able to come in and have significant impacts as freshman, similar to The freshman success of Toews, Sims, and Estime. That’s a significant plus with this coaching staff is that they’ve been able to find guys that can come in and compete right away, and keep them succeeding. That hasn’t been mentioned enough. Too much focus on the negative a lot around here and not identifying the positives.


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03-06-2019 10:24 AM
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RE: Expectations for next year....
How would everyone describe Northeastern’s style of play? They play at a fast tempo utilizing length and play half court man to man defense. Sounds like what McGrath wants to achieve here.
03-06-2019 10:34 AM
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 10:24 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  One that that hasn’t really been discussed as much about our defense, the direction CB wants it to go in, etc is the pieces.

Until we have players at all positions who are taught and can play M2M effectively, it won’t work. As great as Cacok was here, he wasn’t a great defender and not big enough to have a significant shot blocking presence. He made up for all that with his tenacity for rebounds and aggressive play though.

My point is that if we want an effective defense of any type really, we need a solid post defender. The reason guards were able to finish so often in the paint against us was always because once they blow by the back court there weren’t any real front court defensive threats to stop them, especially once we needed Cacok to stay out of foul trouble.

Sims really started to look like a solid piece to fill a “Flemmings” style role for us later in the season, and I’m excited to see his continued progression there.

I’m hoping Dodd and Boggs are able to come in and have significant impacts as freshman, similar to The freshman success of Toews, Sims, and Estime. That’s a significant plus with this coaching staff is that they’ve been able to find guys that can come in and compete right away, and keep them succeeding. That hasn’t been mentioned enough. Too much focus on the negative a lot around here and not identifying the positives.


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I think Dodd is going to come in and have a solid impact immediately. I'm not sold on Boggs having much impact next season. Boggs has a ton of potential, but I see him as a 3 in college. With Sims and Estime already vying for playing time at that position, throw Fornes in there if he decides to return... Boggs is going to have to be really impressive to get significant playing time next season. I see Boggs being a player that can potentially guard 1-4 and be a knock down shooter. It just might not be next season.
03-06-2019 10:40 AM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 10:24 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  One that that hasn’t really been discussed as much about our defense, the direction CB wants it to go in, etc is the pieces.

Until we have players at all positions who are taught and can play M2M effectively, it won’t work. As great as Cacok was here, he wasn’t a great defender and not big enough to have a significant shot blocking presence. He made up for all that with his tenacity for rebounds and aggressive play though.

My point is that if we want an effective defense of any type really, we need a solid post defender. The reason guards were able to finish so often in the paint against us was always because once they blow by the back court there weren’t any real front court defensive threats to stop them, especially once we needed Cacok to stay out of foul trouble.

Sims really started to look like a solid piece to fill a “Flemmings” style role for us later in the season, and I’m excited to see his continued progression there.

I’m hoping Dodd and Boggs are able to come in and have significant impacts as freshman, similar to The freshman success of Toews, Sims, and Estime. That’s a significant plus with this coaching staff is that they’ve been able to find guys that can come in and compete right away, and keep them succeeding. That hasn’t been mentioned enough. Too much focus on the negative a lot around here and not identifying the positives.


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You focus on Cacok not defending well, but you ignore the reason why he was pout in the position to begin with is because others can't guard and give up too many blow byes. I'd love to focus on the positives, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. I've repeatedly said that i think he can recruit, and has gotten good pieces for sure, and appears to be more coming in. Player development(on everything except D really) is solid. But can he coach?
03-06-2019 10:42 AM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 08:08 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!

The irony of this thread and this statement together are almost too much for my human mind to handle.



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Discussing something really isn't "doing" we don't have any impact positive or negative on the program. I simply moved this thread as people were discussing on the recruiting thread and i didn't want to derail that discussion. Sorry for attempting to help you keep the forum clean 04-cheers
03-06-2019 10:46 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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RE: Expectations for next year....
I think we've discussed this already, but that's a poor definition of insanity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...nsanity-is

Quote:I hear this every week, sometimes twice a day: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." No, it isn't.

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

I've started hearing people use it in the service of avoidance, which is a defense mechanism. Rather than facing their fears, they grab on to this saying for protection against possible failure, pain or rejection. Some examples:

"I've asked out two women and been shot down both times, and you know the definition of insanity..."

"I jogged for a week and actually gained weight. They say the definition of insanity is ..."

"It's been a month and I'm still crying about his death. I'm living the definition of insanity."

I think the confusion behind this statement is best illustrated by these two words:

Perseveration: the pathological, persistent repetition of a word, gesture, or act.

Perseverance: steady persistence in a course of action in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement.


So I guess the way to look at C.B.'s defensive strategy is this: Is he being PERSISTENT, or is he PERSEVERATING? If its the latter, he needs to fundamentally change the way he coaches.

Many here have decided it to be the latter 2 years in. Perhaps.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2019 11:19 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
03-06-2019 11:17 AM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 11:17 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  I think we've discussed this already, but that's a poor definition of insanity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...nsanity-is

Quote:I hear this every week, sometimes twice a day: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." No, it isn't.

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

I've started hearing people use it in the service of avoidance, which is a defense mechanism. Rather than facing their fears, they grab on to this saying for protection against possible failure, pain or rejection. Some examples:

"I've asked out two women and been shot down both times, and you know the definition of insanity..."

"I jogged for a week and actually gained weight. They say the definition of insanity is ..."

"It's been a month and I'm still crying about his death. I'm living the definition of insanity."

I think the confusion behind this statement is best illustrated by these two words:

Perseveration: the pathological, persistent repetition of a word, gesture, or act.

Perseverance: steady persistence in a course of action in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement.


So I guess the way to look at C.B.'s defensive strategy is this: Is he being PERSISTENT, or is he PERSEVERATING? If its the latter, he needs to fundamentally change the way he coaches.

Many here have decided it to be the latter 2 years in. Perhaps.
I don't care about your silly definitions, I like the saying, and in this case i think it applies 100%! AND YES, although it appears split here, i'm certainly in the perserverating boat
03-06-2019 11:32 AM
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Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 10:46 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 08:08 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!

The irony of this thread and this statement together are almost too much for my human mind to handle.



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Discussing something really isn't "doing" we don't have any impact positive or negative on the program. I simply moved this thread as people were discussing on the recruiting thread and i didn't want to derail that discussion. Sorry for attempting to help you keep the forum clean 04-cheers


Thank you for your service good sir. Lol


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03-06-2019 12:43 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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RE: Expectations for next year....
(03-06-2019 11:32 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I don't care about your silly definitions, I like the saying

The article demonstrated how that line of thinking can be damaging. I wasn't trying to be pedantic.
03-06-2019 01:49 PM
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