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Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(02-07-2020 04:39 AM)chester Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 03:19 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  I just discovered that Gonzaga finished 16-0 in a 10 team conference. A balanced schedule could have been played with 18 games. I understand playing 16 rather than 18 if there are more than 10 teams so you're not going to play every opponent twice either way, but every conference with 10 or fewer teams should make you play every opponent twice.

BUMP to say that it wouldn't be a perfect solution to the inherent inequity of sub-double round robin scheduling (far from it) but I believe things would be somewhat more fair by simply halving the worth of some games relative to others.

Let each game between teams who play each other twice be worth one half point to the victor in the standings while all other games are worth one point to the victor. 03-phew

Points? What is this hockey?
02-07-2020 07:23 AM
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chester Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(02-07-2020 07:23 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-07-2020 04:39 AM)chester Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 03:19 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  I just discovered that Gonzaga finished 16-0 in a 10 team conference. A balanced schedule could have been played with 18 games. I understand playing 16 rather than 18 if there are more than 10 teams so you're not going to play every opponent twice either way, but every conference with 10 or fewer teams should make you play every opponent twice.

BUMP to say that it wouldn't be a perfect solution to the inherent inequity of sub-double round robin scheduling (far from it) but I believe things would be somewhat more fair by simply halving the worth of some games relative to others.

Let each game between teams who play each other twice be worth one half point to the victor in the standings while all other games are worth one point to the victor. 03-phew

Points? What is this hockey?

lol, sounds like, maybe. But hey, a point system is already used. One victory equals one point in the standings. Team with the most conference wins (points in the standings) is the season champ and top seed in the conference tournament.

I should clarify that what I had in mind is better suited for a conference that falls well short of a double round robin. Take the SEC, for example, where in any given year teams play 5 teams twice and the other 8 once, making for 18 total conference games.

Suppose that Teams A & B are equal and Team C is far superior to them both. A rather bad scenario for either Team A or B (let's say A) is that it has to play C twice while the other team (B) gets to play C only once. Worse still for A is that it plays B only on the road. So let's give Team B a loss to C and Team A two losses to C and one to B since B has that sweet home court advantage.

So under a 1 point per win deal, Team A loses 3 of the 18 potential points it had at the start of the conference season, which is 17%. But if Team A's two losses were worth 1 total point to Team C, A would have lost a combined 2 points against B & C, out of the potential 13 potential points it had at the start, which is 15%. Somewhat better.

Does this make any sense or am I tripping? 02-13-banana 04-cheers
02-12-2020 11:46 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(02-12-2020 11:46 PM)chester Wrote:  Does this make any sense or am I tripping? 02-13-banana 04-cheers

Sense would have been Gonzaga leaving for the MWC. Could you imagine Gonzaga and San Diego State together this year? Sure San Diego State isn't always this good. But they've had some good programs lately as has Nevada and Utah State. If Gonzaga had joined, maybe BYU would have come along for the ride too.
02-13-2020 05:13 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(03-04-2019 04:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  FYI BYU got the 2 seed, not St. Mary's who will be the 3 seed, USF is the 4 seed.

and actually Gonzaga and BYU get three rounds of byes, and wont play until next Monday. USF and St. Mary's get two rounds of byes and play on Saturday. Also LMU (5) and SCU (6) get one round of bye and play on Friday. The bottom 4 (USD, Pepperdine, UOP, Portland) "play-in" on Thursday's first round. It's a ladder bracket, two games a night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_West_...Tournament

I don't know how ridiculous that is. They maximize their TV slots in west coast prime time, and they get their semi-final and Championship game son Monday and Tuesday nights when there is less TV competition.

This is a one bid conference, and Gonzaga wanted to reduce the number of low RPI schools it would have to play. Setting the conference to 16 games (similar concession thee MWC made to Fisher's SDSU) and not playing in the tournament until the semi-finals reduces by 3 the number of low RPI teams Gonzaga has to face. They can and do replace those with high RPI non conference opponents. Getting a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA is the objective here for Gonzaga.

1. Your wrong. St MRys got 2 seed; BYU 3 seed.
2. Your wrong Stug, MWC didn’t give Fish any concessions.
02-13-2020 08:45 AM
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ColumbusCard Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(03-14-2019 03:56 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  What the WCC and Conference USA do are different. I don't know if the two teams Gonzaga faced once were chosen as teams expected to be bad, but quality can't always be predicted. I also don't know if it's a rotation or if the schools each team plays once will be the same every season. If the opponent frequency is the same every season, two schools would get to host Gonzaga half as much as the other seven. With nine opponents, a rotation would need nine seasons to play every opponent the same amount of times, which would be 16. Conference USA having near-equal teams play each other a second time is done after it is known how good the teams are. It's not done to favor any specific school(s). If I had to guess, I would think Conference USA schools would be happier with what Conference USA does than WCC teams other than Gonzaga would be happy with what the WCC does.

The criteria to determine the 16-game WCC schedule include multi-year RPI, last year's WCC tournament seeding, and a spring survey of the conference's coaches. My hunch is they will eventually replace the multi-year RPI with multi-year NET rankings. This is why Gonzaga only played Portland and Pepperdine once during the regular season - they were the #9 and #10 teams last year (they finished #8 and #10 this year).

The changes also include a requirement that each team play in at least one multiteam event, more home games than road games, no more than 2 non-Div 1 opponents, and teams must receive conference approval for any guarantee "pay day" games.

The new 16-team WCC schedule format allows teams to schedule as they see fit to improve their win-loss records, which helps the entire conference. Gonzaga, BYU and St. Mary's had more quality OOC games in December. Could be coincidence, but this is the first time that the WCC had 5 teams ranked in the top-100 and 6 teams ranked in the top-150.

(03-14-2019 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  18 conference games is the most common amount. Making Gonzaga play 18 conference games rather than 16 wouldn't be an unfair restriction on how many out of conference games they play.

WCC conference play used to start in late December, which limited some OOC opportunities. Instead, this year, Gonzaga was able to play Texas A&M, Illinois, Arizona, Duke, Washington, Tennessee, North Carolina in December. BYU had the opportunity to play Mississippi St., Nevada, Houston, Utah, Utah St., SDSU, and UNLV. Even St. Mary's umped up its OOC schedule and actually left the state of California in OOC play, with Mississippi St., Cal, LSU, New Mexico, NMSU, Utah St., and Western Kentucky.

Seems their new scheduling format is benefitting everyone. Wouldnt be surprised to see them become a 2 or 3 bid league down the line
02-13-2020 09:40 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(03-09-2019 05:47 AM)Todor Wrote:  Conference USA uses a similar tactic, to get their higher teams to play each other more and avoid extra games against teams that will drag down their RPI or NET ratings.

Does it work for them?
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2020 10:14 AM by quo vadis.)
02-13-2020 10:13 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(02-13-2020 09:40 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:56 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  What the WCC and Conference USA do are different. I don't know if the two teams Gonzaga faced once were chosen as teams expected to be bad, but quality can't always be predicted. I also don't know if it's a rotation or if the schools each team plays once will be the same every season. If the opponent frequency is the same every season, two schools would get to host Gonzaga half as much as the other seven. With nine opponents, a rotation would need nine seasons to play every opponent the same amount of times, which would be 16. Conference USA having near-equal teams play each other a second time is done after it is known how good the teams are. It's not done to favor any specific school(s). If I had to guess, I would think Conference USA schools would be happier with what Conference USA does than WCC teams other than Gonzaga would be happy with what the WCC does.

The criteria to determine the 16-game WCC schedule include multi-year RPI, last year's WCC tournament seeding, and a spring survey of the conference's coaches. My hunch is they will eventually replace the multi-year RPI with multi-year NET rankings. This is why Gonzaga only played Portland and Pepperdine once during the regular season - they were the #9 and #10 teams last year (they finished #8 and #10 this year).

The changes also include a requirement that each team play in at least one multiteam event, more home games than road games, no more than 2 non-Div 1 opponents, and teams must receive conference approval for any guarantee "pay day" games.

The new 16-team WCC schedule format allows teams to schedule as they see fit to improve their win-loss records, which helps the entire conference. Gonzaga, BYU and St. Mary's had more quality OOC games in December. Could be coincidence, but this is the first time that the WCC had 5 teams ranked in the top-100 and 6 teams ranked in the top-150.

(03-14-2019 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  18 conference games is the most common amount. Making Gonzaga play 18 conference games rather than 16 wouldn't be an unfair restriction on how many out of conference games they play.

WCC conference play used to start in late December, which limited some OOC opportunities. Instead, this year, Gonzaga was able to play Texas A&M, Illinois, Arizona, Duke, Washington, Tennessee, North Carolina in December. BYU had the opportunity to play Mississippi St., Nevada, Houston, Utah, Utah St., SDSU, and UNLV. Even St. Mary's umped up its OOC schedule and actually left the state of California in OOC play, with Mississippi St., Cal, LSU, New Mexico, NMSU, Utah St., and Western Kentucky.

Seems their new scheduling format is benefitting everyone. Wouldnt be surprised to see them become a 2 or 3 bid league down the line

The WCC had 2 bids last year and is likely to have 3 bids this year - with decent seeding - ESPN's Bracketology currently predicts 1, 7, and 9 seeds for Zags, BYU, and SMC.

2 teams in the NET top-25 and 3 teams in the NET top-40. Gives the WCC some nice Quad 1 conference games.

And, the middle of the conference seems to be a little stronger than in the past - Pacific(19), Santa Clara(18), and San Francisco(16) each have a reasonable shot at 20 wins. I haven't looked it up, but to have 5 or even 6 WCC teams with 20+ regular-season wins would probably be a first.
02-13-2020 10:55 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Ridiculous West Coast Conference Schedule Format
(03-04-2019 03:19 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  I just discovered that Gonzaga finished 16-0 in a 10 team conference. A balanced schedule could have been played with 18 games. I understand playing 16 rather than 18 if there are more than 10 teams so you're not going to play every opponent twice either way, but every conference with 10 or fewer teams should make you play every opponent twice.

Become their commissioner then. Then see how much you can get accomplished. 04-jawdrop 03-nutkick 03-nutkick 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-mafia 07-coffee3
02-13-2020 11:06 AM
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