(03-18-2019 04:54 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  It is rather remarkable in ESPN's final bracketology, Rice was moved from an 11 to a 12 seed. Meanwhile, they predict Ohio is the team left out now that Missouri State (now a 10 seed) gets in. Remember now, Missouri State lost to UNT in the non-conference season. It's so laughable and predictable, although I still maintain ESPN will look foolish when the actual seeds are announced tonight.

Considering that ODU did get that 14 seed on the men's side, it is entirely possible that Rice will get a 12 or worse in the women's bracket.

I personally want as high a seed as possible as proper recognition for what our team has achieved. But the fact is, we're in, some people are comfortable with the 11 or 12 slot... OK, fine. Whatever. Let's just beat the first opponent, no matter who it is. That will send the loudest message.

(03-18-2019 06:00 AM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK, fine. Whatever. Let's just beat the first opponent, no matter who it is. That will send the loudest message.

And the one after that. And so on.

Perception is a mountain. It takes quality wins multiple times. Recognition from the world isnt handed out for reaching base camp.

(03-17-2019 10:49 PM)Antarius Wrote:  . Perception is reality and unfortunately winning first round games isnt conference-perception-changing worthy.

For once we are in agreement. That is why I prefer the easiest route to the Sweet Sixteen to the easiest first round game.

But it doesn’t matter what we draw, we just need to win...and win...and keep wining.

I would be ok with a 12 seed if it gets us a first- or second round rematch at or vs. Texas A&M.

I do believe that in some cases they can choose to ’reward’ teams by giving them shorter travel.

I'd prefer the easiest path to the Sweet 16. I think that probably means going through the 4 instead of the 1, 2, or 3. A 12 would get us 5, then 4, and a 13 would get us 4, then 5. Of course, that assumes no other upsets but our games.

(03-18-2019 07:06 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-17-2019 10:49 PM)Antarius Wrote:  . Perception is reality and unfortunately winning first round games isnt conference-perception-changing worthy.

For once we are in agreement. That is why I prefer the easiest route to the Sweet Sixteen to the easiest first round game.

But it doesn’t matter what we draw, we just need to win...and win...and keep wining.

For one, talking about finding the easiest path to a later round by gaming the system is courting disaster. It also smacks of entitlement.

Also, I wasn't saying, "Oh, let's just win one and be happy." But we do have to start by winning one. And winning even one game in the NCAAs can be valuable, especially when you haven't been there much. A single victory over a higher seed in the basketball tournament is, for example, more valuable than prevailing in any one of those sham bowls we love accepting invitations to so much.

We have to start by winning one. We can (and should want to) win more, but having an attitude that we can somehow work the system for better PR (as OO is suggesting) is kind of a bad look for us at this point.

I'm not sure I agree that winning a game in the NCAA is valuable for perception when you live in the non-P5. Look at CUSA..how many years in a row have we won a game and how is our champion treated? How was MTSU treated after winning a game 2 years in a row? Though this year, it might be deserved due to the lack of a dominant team in Conference.

We win a game in the tournament and return four starters (and our coach), and we will be preseason top-25 next year. That's big.

Also, I'd like Ogwumike and Mulkey to get more national attention as both can be listed on all-American teams next year. I don't think Erica can make this summer's Pan American Games roster (although it would be nice for her to get an invitation to try out), but I absolutely think Mulkey should be in the mix to not only make the team, but maybe even be the team's starting center. That's assuming she wants to try out for the team. She may just want the summer off to rest up her body. BTW, the Pan American Games coaching staff is the head coaches of Michigan State (head coach), and Mississippi State and Buffalo (assistants). So it might help those two players to play any of those three teams in the NCAA.

(03-18-2019 09:47 AM)owl95 Wrote:  I'm not sure I agree that winning a game in the NCAA is valuable for perception when you live in the non-P5. Look at CUSA..how many years in a row have we won a game and how is our champion treated? How was MTSU treated after winning a game 2 years in a row? Though this year, it might be deserved due to the lack of a dominant team in Conference.

It is valuable in the sense that you can pitch it to recruits at the very least. But the value has to be magnified over time by doing it again and doing it better. That is how Butler got started in MBB; it is also how UConn got started in the women's game (because, believe it or not, UConn wasn't even on the map when women's basketball hit the scene).

You gotta start somewhere. But the key is making sure that the start is precisely that, and not just a blip. Winning when it counts is definitely better than losing. And it always counts in the Big Dance.

As for the seeding thing, I am particularly sensitive to the fallacy of looking to get a certain ranking so that a team can find an easier path. I have a good and enduring example of how that thinking backfired in a very embarrassing way for a program many years ago (not us, obviously). I'm not going to type it out, but suffice it to say that you should always be careful what you wish for in public.

The stratification in talent is much greater on the women's side vs. the men's side. Tournament upsets are much less common:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divis...ent_upsets

The potential for Rice to win an 8 v 9 match up is MUCH greater than for Rice to win as an 11 or 12 seed vs. a 6 or 5 seed.

(03-18-2019 09:21 AM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(03-18-2019 07:06 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-17-2019 10:49 PM)Antarius Wrote:  . Perception is reality and unfortunately winning first round games isnt conference-perception-changing worthy.

For once we are in agreement. That is why I prefer the easiest route to the Sweet Sixteen to the easiest first round game.

But it doesn’t matter what we draw, we just need to win...and win...and keep wining.

For one, talking about finding the easiest path to a later round by gaming the system is courting disaster. It also smacks of entitlement.

Also, I wasn't saying, "Oh, let's just win one and be happy." But we do have to start by winning one. And winning even one game in the NCAAs can be valuable, especially when you haven't been there much. A single victory over a higher seed in the basketball tournament is, for example, more valuable than prevailing in any one of those sham bowls we love accepting invitations to so much.

We have to start by winning one. We can (and should want to) win more, but having an attitude that we can somehow work the system for better PR (as OO is suggesting) is kind of a bad look for us at this point.

I can’t game the system. I have no decision making power, no influence. Just stating what I hope for. I think making the Sweet Sixteen brings us more recognition and more publicity than an 8 beating a 9, then losing to to a 1.

Any win is a plus. Winning two is plus cubed. The difference between us as an 8 and us as n 11 is zero, but the difference in the first two opponents is significant. We can handle a 4, 5, or 6 because WE in reality are that good, regardless of where they seed us. Maybe we catch them nderestimating us.

In the end, we just want the same ting - beat whoever is on the court with us.

Go Owls!

(03-18-2019 10:02 AM)temchugh Wrote:  The stratification in talent is much greater on the women's side vs. the men's side. Tournament upsets are much less common:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divis...ent_upsets

The potential for Rice to win an 8 v 9 match up is MUCH greater than for Rice to win as an 11 or 12 seed vs. a 6 or 5 seed.

As expected though, many 11-12 seeds have had upsets on the women's side and a few have even made it to the Sweet 16. As an 11-12(probably an underrated one at that), Rice would be in good company historically. We are ranked in the top 25 and if we are truly deserving of that, then we should be comparable to any 4 or higher seed and should be able to handle them on a good day. I am excited to see us go on a run. Remember these women know how to win in postseason tournaments over the last couple years.

(03-18-2019 04:54 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  It is rather remarkable in ESPN's final bracketology, Rice was moved from an 11 to a 12 seed. Meanwhile, they predict Ohio is the team left out now that Missouri State (now a 10 seed) gets in. Remember now, Missouri State lost to UNT in the non-conference season. It's so laughable and predictable, although I still maintain ESPN will look foolish when the actual seeds are announced tonight.

Insanity rules. However, I think the team would be just fine with a 12 seed IF they send us to College Station. Why in the world would they send us to Raleigh as a 12-seed when they could send us local?

Rice moves up to #21 in AP Poll.
https://apnews.com/afs:Content:3995170004

(03-18-2019 12:20 PM)dragon2owl Wrote:  Rice moves up to #21 in AP Poll.
https://apnews.com/afs:Content:3995170004

If we get seeded 12, we could play a 5 that we outrank

Rice is ranked #31 in Massey, in the NCAA RPI, and in RealTime RPI. That's as consistent as anyone not at or near the top. Sounds like an 8 seed to me.

(03-18-2019 12:48 PM)owl95 Wrote:  

(03-18-2019 12:20 PM)dragon2owl Wrote:  Rice moves up to #21 in AP Poll.
https://apnews.com/afs:Content:3995170004

If we get seeded 12, we could play a 5 that we outrank

I don't know how often an out-ranked opponent happens on the men's side, but this blurb from ESPN.com notes that there have been 3 instances since 2000 of the #5 seed on the men's side has not been favored at tip-off. And every time, the #12 seed has won.

source: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...tournament

(12) Rice vs. (5) Marquette
Friday, College Station, Tx

Wow, ESPNU made a huge mistake. Middle Ages is right. They put the women's bracket on TV already. Rice gets a 12 seed, headed to College Station for Friday

Why would an ESPN reporter leak the bracket that they are revealing tonight?

If that’s true we got screwed in our seeding. Marquette is #18 in the AP poll and #12 in RPI. Playing them should be a 2nd or 3rd round matchup for us.