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(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

(03-01-2019 10:45 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

NET definitely needs some tweaking

Washington only fell to 32 from 29 after losing to previous 275 Cal last night. Cal bumped up to 253. Cal snapped a 23 game losing streak in Pac-12 conference play and are now 6-22 (1-15) on the season.

We drop 3 spots after a win on the road

We really need UTSA to get back up to 135 so they are a Quad 2 win (And yes I know it's also a Quad 2 loss)

This ODU team has grown and matured over the season. Jeff Jones has done a great job with this group.

Let's face it, the NET was invented to help P5s.

I've criticized him, but Jeff should be a no-brainer for coach of the year.

(03-01-2019 10:56 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let's face it, the NET was invented to help P5s.

So, that caused me to pull it up...

Number 1- Gonzaga....hmm
Number 4- Houston....
Number 15- Buffalo
18- Wofford
34-Utah State
39- St Marys
45- Belmont
46- Furman
47- Lipscomb

This is how they rank in RPI:

4. Houston
6- Gonzaga
9-Buffalo
28- Wofford
38-Utah State
46- Belmont
57-Furman
66-Lipscomb
47- St. Marys

KenPom:
2. Gonzaga
14-Houston
19-Buffalo
24-Wofford
34-St. Marys
38-Utah State
48-Lipscomb
50-Belmont
55-Furman



By the looks of it, NET appears to be helping G-5 schools.

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

RPI has UTSA lower than NET. Jackson missed 3 total games. UTSA simply isnt a good team.

(03-01-2019 11:02 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:56 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let's face it, the NET was invented to help P5s.

So, that caused me to pull it up...

Number 1- Gonzaga....hmm
Number 4- Houston....
Number 15- Buffalo
18- Wofford
34-Utah State
39- St Marys
45- Belmont
46- Furman
47- Lipscomb

This is how they rank in RPI:

4. Houston
6- Gonzaga
9-Buffalo
28- Wofford
38-Utah State
46- Belmont
57-Furman
66-Lipscomb
47- St. Marys

KenPom:
2. Gonzaga
14-Houston
19-Buffalo
24-Wofford
34-St. Marys
38-Utah State
48-Lipscomb
50-Belmont
55-Furman



By the looks of it, NET appears to be helping G-5 schools.

Interesting.

I would love to see the schedules of these teams. I'll have to take a look when I have time.

I know that Liberty was ahead of us with no real quality wins (maybe UCLA) but getting beat by a bunch of P5s.

(03-01-2019 10:53 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:45 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

NET definitely needs some tweaking

Washington only fell to 32 from 29 after losing to previous 275 Cal last night. Cal bumped up to 253. Cal snapped a 23 game losing streak in Pac-12 conference play and are now 6-22 (1-15) on the season.

We drop 3 spots after a win on the road

We really need UTSA to get back up to 135 so they are a Quad 2 win (And yes I know it's also a Quad 2 loss)

Its not perfect, but I have no problem with us dropping a couple spots with a 1 point win against a 140th (ish) ranked team. And they lost to a much better team than them by 1 point, shouldn't they get credit for that?

(03-01-2019 10:58 AM)ODU Hugh Wrote:  I've criticized him, but Jeff should be a no-brainer for coach of the year.

We're gonna get shut out again on awards I bet. I'd even bet that one of BJ or Caver gets left off 1st team as well.

(03-01-2019 11:06 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 11:02 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:56 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Let's face it, the NET was invented to help P5s.

So, that caused me to pull it up...

Number 1- Gonzaga....hmm
Number 4- Houston....
Number 15- Buffalo
18- Wofford
34-Utah State
39- St Marys
45- Belmont
46- Furman
47- Lipscomb

This is how they rank in RPI:

4. Houston
6- Gonzaga
9-Buffalo
28- Wofford
38-Utah State
46- Belmont
57-Furman
66-Lipscomb
47- St. Marys

KenPom:
2. Gonzaga
14-Houston
19-Buffalo
24-Wofford
34-St. Marys
38-Utah State
48-Lipscomb
50-Belmont
55-Furman



By the looks of it, NET appears to be helping G-5 schools.

Interesting.

I would love to see the schedules of these teams. I'll have to take a look when I have time.

I know that Liberty was ahead of us with no real quality wins (maybe UCLA) but getting beat by a bunch of P5s.

Liberty is an interesting case, but they do have a top 50 road win (Lipscomb) and a top 100 road win (UCLA).

They seems to have dropped a little due to a loss to North Florida last week or so.

But, there only onther losses were Lipscomb, Austing peay (130), Bama, Georgetown, and Vandy. They are helped because they blow teams out.

(03-01-2019 11:09 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:58 AM)ODU Hugh Wrote:  I've criticized him, but Jeff should be a no-brainer for coach of the year.

We're gonna get shut out again on awards I bet. I'd even bet that one of BJ or Caver gets left off 1st team as well.

I can't imagine how anyone could leave BJ or Caver off first team. I don't even think that is possible.

(03-01-2019 11:08 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:53 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:45 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

NET definitely needs some tweaking

Washington only fell to 32 from 29 after losing to previous 275 Cal last night. Cal bumped up to 253. Cal snapped a 23 game losing streak in Pac-12 conference play and are now 6-22 (1-15) on the season.

We drop 3 spots after a win on the road

We really need UTSA to get back up to 135 so they are a Quad 2 win (And yes I know it's also a Quad 2 loss)

Its not perfect, but I have no problem with us dropping a couple spots with a 1 point win against a 140th (ish) ranked team. And they lost to a much better team than them by 1 point, shouldn't they get credit for that?

Agreed, but my point was more about us dropping the same amount of spots as Washington did. How does Washington only drop 3 spots after that horrible loss?

(03-01-2019 11:11 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 11:08 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:53 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:45 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

NET definitely needs some tweaking

Washington only fell to 32 from 29 after losing to previous 275 Cal last night. Cal bumped up to 253. Cal snapped a 23 game losing streak in Pac-12 conference play and are now 6-22 (1-15) on the season.

We drop 3 spots after a win on the road

We really need UTSA to get back up to 135 so they are a Quad 2 win (And yes I know it's also a Quad 2 loss)

Its not perfect, but I have no problem with us dropping a couple spots with a 1 point win against a 140th (ish) ranked team. And they lost to a much better team than them by 1 point, shouldn't they get credit for that?

Agreed, but my point was more about us dropping the same amount of spots as Washington did. How does Washington only drop 3 spots after that horrible loss?

It was a close, road loss which plays into it.

But, out of curiousity, I checked out Cals schedule. Holy ****:

They have played only 9 games vs. teams that are above 100 in KenPom and have played 19 games vs. team in the top 100.

There 9:

Hampton- 192 Win
Santa Clara 185 Win
SD State 132 Win
Cal Poly 334 Win
SJ State 340 WIN
Seattle 183 Loss
Wazzou 195 Loss
UTAH 112 Loss
104 Standford Loss

Despite that awful record, they only have 2 losses to bad teams this year.

(03-01-2019 11:09 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:58 AM)ODU Hugh Wrote:  I've criticized him, but Jeff should be a no-brainer for coach of the year.

We're gonna get shut out again on awards I bet. I'd even bet that one of BJ or Caver gets left off 1st team as well.

ODU always seems to get snubbed in postseason awards in any sport

I could see it going like this

POY: Jhivvan Jackson, UTSA
COY: Doc Sadler, USM or Jeremy Ballard, FIU
DPOY: Charles Bassey, WKU
FOY: Charles Bassey, WKU

I'm not going to guess at first team, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of BJ or Ahmad were left off. Just par for the course with this conference. Don't forget how they left Fulgham and Duhart off the first team this year in football.

(03-01-2019 11:08 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:53 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:45 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

NET definitely needs some tweaking

Washington only fell to 32 from 29 after losing to previous 275 Cal last night. Cal bumped up to 253. Cal snapped a 23 game losing streak in Pac-12 conference play and are now 6-22 (1-15) on the season.

We drop 3 spots after a win on the road

We really need UTSA to get back up to 135 so they are a Quad 2 win (And yes I know it's also a Quad 2 loss)

Its not perfect, but I have no problem with us dropping a couple spots with a 1 point win against a 140th (ish) ranked team. And they lost to a much better team than them by 1 point, shouldn't they get credit for that?

No! The win/loss what matters, not how you played. I have no problem with the committee bringing up how you played once you get to the subjectivity of the decisions (take similarly ranked team A over team B because they gave Duke a tough game and showed they could pull off an upset), but the metrics should not try to account for subjectivity. Subjectivity is just that.

(03-01-2019 11:26 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 11:09 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:58 AM)ODU Hugh Wrote:  I've criticized him, but Jeff should be a no-brainer for coach of the year.

We're gonna get shut out again on awards I bet. I'd even bet that one of BJ or Caver gets left off 1st team as well.

ODU always seems to get snubbed in postseason awards in any sport

I could see it going like this

POY: Jhivvan Jackson, UTSA
COY: Doc Sadler, USM or Jeremy Ballard, FIU
DPOY: Charles Bassey, WKU
FOY: Charles Bassey, WKU

I'm not going to guess at first team, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of BJ or Ahmad were left off. Just par for the course with this conference. Don't forget how they left Fulgham and Duhart off the first team this year in football.

I could see the awards being that. Its frustrating to see what other cannot. Jackson probably should not be on the first team, much less POY.

(03-01-2019 11:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 11:08 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:53 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:45 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Our NET ranking went from 73 to 76 by virtue of winning last night's road game. That is why these metrics are trash. The fact that Jackson got injured and UTSA thus struggled OOC, combined with the fact that we won by 1 point and that game hurt us. I understand we had a lot of turnovers and weren't very efficient, but good teams find ways to win these games. That's why I like the RPI better.

And UTSA went from 137 to 136 after they LOST. It doesn't help our cause when teams like JMU lose by 15 at home to Elon who is the lowest ranked team in the CAA.

NET definitely needs some tweaking

Washington only fell to 32 from 29 after losing to previous 275 Cal last night. Cal bumped up to 253. Cal snapped a 23 game losing streak in Pac-12 conference play and are now 6-22 (1-15) on the season.

We drop 3 spots after a win on the road

We really need UTSA to get back up to 135 so they are a Quad 2 win (And yes I know it's also a Quad 2 loss)

Its not perfect, but I have no problem with us dropping a couple spots with a 1 point win against a 140th (ish) ranked team. And they lost to a much better team than them by 1 point, shouldn't they get credit for that?

No! The win/loss what matters, not how you played. I have no problem with the committee bringing up how you played once you get to the subjectivity of the decisions (take similarly ranked team A over team B because they gave Duke a tough game and showed they could pull off an upset), but the metrics should not try to account for subjectivity. Subjectivity is just that.

Rankings judge how you played. Win/loss is a part of that, but if you beat a team by 10, its better than beating a team by 1. That isn't subjectivity.

(03-01-2019 11:11 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 11:09 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 10:58 AM)ODU Hugh Wrote:  I've criticized him, but Jeff should be a no-brainer for coach of the year.

We're gonna get shut out again on awards I bet. I'd even bet that one of BJ or Caver gets left off 1st team as well.

I can't imagine how anyone could leave BJ or Caver off first team. I don't even think that is possible.

I agree, but Elmore, Jackson, and Wallace all have better stats (probably others like Edwards too) and they aren't going to take 5 guards.