The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

When comparing Kent and Toledo keep in mind the MAC West is normally weaker than the East and they're normally one of the top teams in the West. Meaning Toledo gets to play 10 conference games each year against MAC West schools not named Toledo.

Axeme your inferring Kent has been the second best program over the last seven years of Conference play. If your only averaging 9.5 wins and are 8-5 in the Conference Tournament it’s a tough argument for me to buy. I too would rather win the MAC tournament then just have a good regular season. However when you only win 9-10 games in the regular season you don’t have much of a chance to win it. If you do it’s a lucky run and the NCAA game won’t be very pretty. I have no idea why Ohio is so inconsistent (I suspect they have made too many coaching changes). I also think that a lot of people would vote for inconsistent with a really good year every 3 to 5 years as opposed to staying consistent but just a bit above average. You hear fans saying that all the time with pro teams.

Personally I think Kent has gone stagnant and needs a change. By that I don’t necessarily mean a head coaching change (how did that work when O’Banion replaced Lindsay.). But maybe it’s time to change the playbook or bring in some assistant coaches who have some different ideas. Change is good sometimes. The argument for no change is not to mess with something that’s working. In my opinion it’s only just barely working during Conference play and needs some help. We tend to blame Pippens injury, Dela Rosas defection, coach not playing Duling etc. I do it as much as the next guy (read my women’s posts after the BG game). But let’s be honest over a seven year period all teams have their Pippens, Dela Rosas and Dulings. Short term luck plays a role, long term not so much.

I understand if you look at the last 20 years the program is something to be very proud of. I think it’s time to admit that it needs a bit of a boost right now.

(03-03-2019 07:36 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  When comparing Kent and Toledo keep in mind the MAC West is normally weaker than the East and they're normally one of the top teams in the West. Meaning Toledo gets to play 10 conference games each year against MAC West schools not named Toledo.

Yeah I thought of that but didn’t know how to handle it easily (or more important quickly). I actually did the same thing using overall records and Kent faired a little better (3rd best). But again there is even more SOS variability to deal with. I was just on a roll after watching that women’s gem of a game yesterday. Besides I was only trying to get some conversation going. Sometimes the board needs a boost just like the team.

You know I’ve noticed when I follow a team closely I can almost always predict when a team is going to have a clunker. Not a routine loss but a clunker. I would have bet my house the women were going to stink out the court yesterday. You could feel it coming. When it happened I just couldn’t help but do some kind of analysis. I bet coaches feel it coming too. That must really be frustrating.

(03-03-2019 04:25 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  OLNWFLSH,

I agree with you 99.7%. For arguments sake, I’ll Justin Greene and Rod Sherman played together on at least one team I would consider elite. [/align]

Let's not forget Chris Singletary - one durable and tough player

(03-03-2019 07:42 PM)burden Wrote:  Axeme your inferring Kent has been the second best program over the last seven years of Conference play. If your only averaging 9.5 wins and are 8-5 in the Conference Tournament it’s a tough argument for me to buy. I too would rather win the MAC tournament then just have a good regular season. However when you only win 9-10 games in the regular season you don’t have much of a chance to win it. If you do it’s a lucky run and the NCAA game won’t be very pretty. I have no idea why Ohio is so inconsistent (I suspect they have made too many coaching changes). I also think that a lot of people would vote for inconsistent with a really good year every 3 to 5 years as opposed to staying consistent but just a bit above average. You hear fans saying that all the time with pro teams.

Personally I think Kent has gone stagnant and needs a change. By that I don’t necessarily mean a head coaching change (how did that work when O’Banion replaced Lindsay.). But maybe it’s time to change the playbook or bring in some assistant coaches who have some different ideas. Change is good sometimes. The argument for no change is not to mess with something that’s working. In my opinion it’s only just barely working during Conference play and needs some help. We tend to blame Pippens injury, Dela Rosas defection, coach not playing Duling etc. I do it as much as the next guy (read my women’s posts after the BG game). But let’s be honest over a seven year period all teams have their Pippens, Dela Rosas and Dulings. Short term luck plays a role, long term not so much.

I understand if you look at the last 20 years the program is something to be very proud of. I think it’s time to admit that it needs a bit of a boost right now.

I've wondered if we don't have too many former players as assistants and that may lead to stagnation of ideas about offense. As a totally unrelated side - I was at the Michigan home game the other night - I wanted to see the Xavier Simpson and the kid from Medina play. After the game they had the lone senior address the crowd he gave a huge shoutout to all the help he got from assistant coach DeAndre Haynes!!

(03-03-2019 08:09 PM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 07:42 PM)burden Wrote:  Axeme your inferring Kent has been the second best program over the last seven years of Conference play. If your only averaging 9.5 wins and are 8-5 in the Conference Tournament it’s a tough argument for me to buy. I too would rather win the MAC tournament then just have a good regular season. However when you only win 9-10 games in the regular season you don’t have much of a chance to win it. If you do it’s a lucky run and the NCAA game won’t be very pretty. I have no idea why Ohio is so inconsistent (I suspect they have made too many coaching changes). I also think that a lot of people would vote for inconsistent with a really good year every 3 to 5 years as opposed to staying consistent but just a bit above average. You hear fans saying that all the time with pro teams.

Personally I think Kent has gone stagnant and needs a change. By that I don’t necessarily mean a head coaching change (how did that work when O’Banion replaced Lindsay.). But maybe it’s time to change the playbook or bring in some assistant coaches who have some different ideas. Change is good sometimes. The argument for no change is not to mess with something that’s working. In my opinion it’s only just barely working during Conference play and needs some help. We tend to blame Pippens injury, Dela Rosas defection, coach not playing Duling etc. I do it as much as the next guy (read my women’s posts after the BG game). But let’s be honest over a seven year period all teams have their Pippens, Dela Rosas and Dulings. Short term luck plays a role, long term not so much.

I understand if you look at the last 20 years the program is something to be very proud of. I think it’s time to admit that it needs a bit of a boost right now.

I've wondered if we don't have too many former players as assistants and that may lead to stagnation of ideas about offense. As a totally unrelated side - I was at the Michigan home game the other night - I wanted to see the Xavier Simpson and the kid from Medina play. After the game they had the lone senior address the crowd he gave a huge shoutout to all the help he got from assistant coach DeAndre Haynes!!

Very good conversation overall ... I think one thing missing is the fact Buffalo is probably the only program in the league that has actually surpassed KSU in terms of dominance.

I think Akron, Western Michigan and Ohio in particular have been hit hard by transfers/injuries in recent years and it shows. Agree with most DP and ADR would have made for a much tougher team this season ... but the fact the program did not take a step back w/o them is impressive, too.

The challenge used to be building a team ... now the biggest challenge seems to be keeping a team together for 2-3 years.

5 coaches over the last 21 years w/o a losing season is damn impressive. And while the NCAA Tournament appearances are not as frequent ... The only teams that have had one the last five years are UB and Kent.

I agree these days everybody thinks they can beat Kent State. But right now everybody in the B12 thinks they can beat Kansas, too. But who wants to play them in the B12 Tournament???

You guys got a pretty damn good program. I wouldn't short-change it too much.

Just saying.

I think the only real disagreement in this thread is how long of a time-frame to use in comparing programs. I consider a period of at least five years, because anyone can have a bad year from time to time, and anyone can have a hot year, too.

(03-03-2019 10:08 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 08:09 PM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 07:42 PM)burden Wrote:  Axeme your inferring Kent has been the second best program over the last seven years of Conference play. If your only averaging 9.5 wins and are 8-5 in the Conference Tournament it’s a tough argument for me to buy. I too would rather win the MAC tournament then just have a good regular season. However when you only win 9-10 games in the regular season you don’t have much of a chance to win it. If you do it’s a lucky run and the NCAA game won’t be very pretty. I have no idea why Ohio is so inconsistent (I suspect they have made too many coaching changes). I also think that a lot of people would vote for inconsistent with a really good year every 3 to 5 years as opposed to staying consistent but just a bit above average. You hear fans saying that all the time with pro teams.

Personally I think Kent has gone stagnant and needs a change. By that I don’t necessarily mean a head coaching change (how did that work when O’Banion replaced Lindsay.). But maybe it’s time to change the playbook or bring in some assistant coaches who have some different ideas. Change is good sometimes. The argument for no change is not to mess with something that’s working. In my opinion it’s only just barely working during Conference play and needs some help. We tend to blame Pippens injury, Dela Rosas defection, coach not playing Duling etc. I do it as much as the next guy (read my women’s posts after the BG game). But let’s be honest over a seven year period all teams have their Pippens, Dela Rosas and Dulings. Short term luck plays a role, long term not so much.

I understand if you look at the last 20 years the program is something to be very proud of. I think it’s time to admit that it needs a bit of a boost right now.

I've wondered if we don't have too many former players as assistants and that may lead to stagnation of ideas about offense. As a totally unrelated side - I was at the Michigan home game the other night - I wanted to see the Xavier Simpson and the kid from Medina play. After the game they had the lone senior address the crowd he gave a huge shoutout to all the help he got from assistant coach DeAndre Haynes!!

Very good conversation overall ... I think one thing missing is the fact Buffalo is probably the only program in the league that has actually surpassed KSU in terms of dominance.

I think Akron, Western Michigan and Ohio in particular have been hit hard by transfers/injuries in recent years and it shows. Agree with most DP and ADR would have made for a much tougher team this season ... but the fact the program did not take a step back w/o them is impressive, too.

The challenge used to be building a team ... now the biggest challenge seems to be keeping a team together for 2-3 years.

5 coaches over the last 21 years w/o a losing season is damn impressive. And while the NCAA Tournament appearances are not as frequent ... The only teams that have had one the last five years are UB and Kent.

I agree these days everybody thinks they can beat Kent State. But right now everybody in the B12 thinks they can beat Kansas, too. But who wants to play them in the B12 Tournament???

You guys got a pretty damn good program. I wouldn't short-change it too much.

Just saying.

No doubt that neither Ohio or Akron look like their next seven years will be as good as there last seven years. Buffalo probably will falter a bit too. The next best program is ripe for the taking. I just hope we don’t think it will fall into our lap.

Ohio is about to make a coaching change. Dude is dead man walking. Who knows how long it will take a new coach to re-tool. Some might go the JUCO route and see fairly immediate success. Some may only want 4 year players and it could take longer. You never know.

Overall, I think the coaches in the MAC are at the highest level that I can remember in the past twenty years or so. I also see MAC teams bringing in better talent. As someone said, keeping that talent is the challenge today. I am really impressed with young players at Miami, BG and Buffalo. I should probably add Ball St. and Toledo to that group. I left us out because I am not sure except the guard from Illinois looks like a real D1 player. Would not be surprised to see Sendy purge several current players to bring in perceived better immediate help. The point is, that for us to continue to rate ourselves as one of the top programs in the MAC, we will have to go after better talent than we appear to be targeting at this time. Other programs are obviously doing so.

Good points, GFlash68. The coaching has improved, and so has the talent. The MAC seems to be experiencing an upswing. It could even have two teams in the NCAA for the first time in 20 years, should Buffalo get upset in the MAC tournament. Frankly, I don't see Buffalo losing in that tournament, though.