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Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

(02-20-2019 03:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

Uh, lets not get carried away. VCU is worse under Rhoades than they were under Wade and Smart (so far). My opinion is that he's not a good coach (not the worst in NCAA history).

(02-20-2019 03:34 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 03:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

Uh, lets not get carried away. VCU is worse under Rhoades than they were under Wade and Smart (so far). My opinion is that he's not a good coach (not the worst in NCAA history).

He coaches for VCU. Therefore, he stinks. It just goes with the territory.

(02-20-2019 03:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

How many wins does Rhoades have against us? Until he notches a W, I will take a wait and see approach. I like what we have better than Mr. Rhoades. VCU just has more basketball cache right now.

(02-20-2019 03:56 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 03:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

How many wins does Rhoades have against us? Until he notches a W, I will take a wait and see approach. I like what we have better than Mr. Rhoades. VCU just has more basketball cache right now.

He was 1-5 against us at Rice and he's 1-1 against us at VCU.

(02-20-2019 03:56 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 03:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

How many wins does Rhoades have against us? Until he notches a W, I will take a wait and see approach. I like what we have better than Mr. Rhoades. VCU just has more basketball cache right now.

Two. One with Rice, one with VCU.

Not sure why people are down on Rhoades. Second year in and he's got them in legitimate at-large contention, even as the conventional wisdom placed them in the middle of the A-10. And they bring back a ton of talent next season. Trying to project top-25 teams for next season when we're still basketballs deep in this one is utter guesswork, but ...

I wasn't super crazy about the JJ hire when it was made, but other than the lack of NCAA appearances, he's steadied the ship here. I might have taken Rhoades over JJ if it came to those two, but if Rhoades always had VCU in his vision, well, I don't think people here would be happy if he left ODU to go there.

(02-20-2019 12:46 PM)fmrick Wrote:  Yes, our OOC SOS is currently....#2 in the country. I'd like to give the current staff all the credit for that, but some of the reasons for the schedule is that Will Wade is a master of figuring out how to schedule for the RPI. SOS, even using the new NET system, is still the same, so the same scheduling rules apply. You want to play the best teams in most any conference.

I think this post hits the nail on the head, as to why metrics don't always tell the whole story. I think Rick is right, Wade was a master at manipulating the metrics. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe the notion that VCU played the 2nd toughest non-conference schedule. Sure, they played a number of decent mid-major teams. But, realistically, what really good wins do they have? Temple on a neutral court?
I know their numbers are good, but look at their schedule. Do they have any good wins? @Texas is a win we'd all be proud of, but they aren't a great team by any stretch. What's the next best win? Hofstra at home, in OT? That's a fine win, but if they don't win the CAA Tourney, they don't get in the Big Dance. There just isn't a lot of meat on the bones.

(02-20-2019 04:57 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:46 PM)fmrick Wrote:  Yes, our OOC SOS is currently....#2 in the country. I'd like to give the current staff all the credit for that, but some of the reasons for the schedule is that Will Wade is a master of figuring out how to schedule for the RPI. SOS, even using the new NET system, is still the same, so the same scheduling rules apply. You want to play the best teams in most any conference.

I think this post hits the nail on the head, as to why metrics don't always tell the whole story. I think Rick is right, Wade was a master at manipulating the metrics. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe the notion that VCU played the 2nd toughest non-conference schedule. Sure, they played a number of decent mid-major teams. But, realistically, what really good wins do they have? Temple on a neutral court?
I know their numbers are good, but look at their schedule. Do they have any good wins? @Texas is a win we'd all be proud of, but they aren't a great team by any stretch. What's the next best win? Hofstra at home, in OT? That's a fine win, but if they don't win the CAA Tourney, they don't get in the Big Dance. There just isn't a lot of meat on the bones.

I do agree that it is hard to understand how they are ranked ***that high.

Texas is best win. Hofstra, Temple, Dayton, and BG are top 100 wins. I honestly have no clue how BG and Hofstra are top 100 though.

They have loses to teams outside the top 100 in us, Charleston, and Rhode Island.

(02-20-2019 05:16 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 04:57 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:46 PM)fmrick Wrote:  Yes, our OOC SOS is currently....#2 in the country. I'd like to give the current staff all the credit for that, but some of the reasons for the schedule is that Will Wade is a master of figuring out how to schedule for the RPI. SOS, even using the new NET system, is still the same, so the same scheduling rules apply. You want to play the best teams in most any conference.

I think this post hits the nail on the head, as to why metrics don't always tell the whole story. I think Rick is right, Wade was a master at manipulating the metrics. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe the notion that VCU played the 2nd toughest non-conference schedule. Sure, they played a number of decent mid-major teams. But, realistically, what really good wins do they have? Temple on a neutral court?
I know their numbers are good, but look at their schedule. Do they have any good wins? @Texas is a win we'd all be proud of, but they aren't a great team by any stretch. What's the next best win? Hofstra at home, in OT? That's a fine win, but if they don't win the CAA Tourney, they don't get in the Big Dance. There just isn't a lot of meat on the bones.

I do agree that it is hard to understand how they are ranked ***that high.

Texas is best win. Hofstra, Temple, Dayton, and BG are top 100 wins. I honestly have no clue how BG and Hofstra are top 100 though.

They have loses to teams outside the top 100 in us, Charleston, and Rhode Island.

Hofstra is the confusing one to me. They have a nice record and are good against teams they should beat (20-2 against Q3/4 teams) but one win against a top 100 team (at home against 98 Northeastern) isn't very sexy. Probably explains why, despite good numbers, they're in nobody's bubble watch.

At least Bowling Green plays in the low-key good MAC, with Buffalo almost a sure thing for the tournament, another top 75 team (Toledo), eight top-150 teams and only one truly wretched team (272 Western Michigan). So barring a total collapse, they're going to be a good win the rest of the way.

ODU's not a sub-100 loss and honestly shouldn't be unless they lose all their pod games and eat it in the first round of the CUSA tournament. Charleston's 112 now, so they could get back in the top 100. Rhode Island probably won't at 140, but that's the worst loss (and on the level of or better than any non-Oregon State loss that ODU suffered so far this season).

Apropos of nothing: ODU lost in conference to Marshall, Florida Atlantic and UTSA, and it's the Marshall one that's the worst one, at least by computer metrics.

(02-20-2019 03:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Speaking of VCU. What happened to all the people who took great joy in rubbing it in a few posters' faces that Mike Rhoades is awful, and VCU is in a shambles, and that Mike Rhoades is the worst coach in NCAA history, and that anyone who can't see that is the world's biggest basketball idiot? I'm guess all of you will come out to say how stupid it is that we are talking about Mike Rhoades now.

Great job to Rhoades this season! Hopefully he can have the second good season of his D1 coaching career, next year!

(02-20-2019 05:16 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 04:57 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:46 PM)fmrick Wrote:  Yes, our OOC SOS is currently....#2 in the country. I'd like to give the current staff all the credit for that, but some of the reasons for the schedule is that Will Wade is a master of figuring out how to schedule for the RPI. SOS, even using the new NET system, is still the same, so the same scheduling rules apply. You want to play the best teams in most any conference.

I think this post hits the nail on the head, as to why metrics don't always tell the whole story. I think Rick is right, Wade was a master at manipulating the metrics. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe the notion that VCU played the 2nd toughest non-conference schedule. Sure, they played a number of decent mid-major teams. But, realistically, what really good wins do they have? Temple on a neutral court?
I know their numbers are good, but look at their schedule. Do they have any good wins? @Texas is a win we'd all be proud of, but they aren't a great team by any stretch. What's the next best win? Hofstra at home, in OT? That's a fine win, but if they don't win the CAA Tourney, they don't get in the Big Dance. There just isn't a lot of meat on the bones.

I do agree that it is hard to understand how they are ranked ***that high.

Texas is best win. Hofstra, Temple, Dayton, and BG are top 100 wins. I honestly have no clue how BG and Hofstra are top 100 though.

They have loses to teams outside the top 100 in us, Charleston, and Rhode Island.

Well, you have to go back to how RPI and SOS are calculated. It is the simplest of all rating systems. Anyone who can do simple math can figure it out. Will Wade had it figured to a T. Just play the best teams in each conference. It is all about winning percentages. RPI is your winning percentage, adjusted for location (25%), your opponents winning percentage (50%) and your opponents opponents winning percentage (25%). SOS is just your opponents winning percentage (67%) and your opponents opponents winning percentage (33%).

So, you just play teams that you think are going to have strong winning records. A game against any 20-5 team is the same for that middle number and that is 50% of the score. Duke 20-5? You get 0.8000 applied to your score. Coastal Carolina 20-5? Same 0.8000. Where the different comes in is the 1st 25% (did you win and where) and the final 25%, who your opponents played. But a full 50% of your score is noting but how well the teams you played did.

So yes, it can be manipulated to your advantage. The newer NET rating system developed by the NCAA uses more data. But don't worry, we are already hearing about how it can be manipulated. Wade was asked about a month ago about the new system. His answer? It is flawed. That means to me that he has figured it out and knows how to exploit it.

If you really want to see how good or how bad Rhoads is. Look at Rice. Their new coach is having them playing better than Rhoades ever did. That is the best coached team I've ever seen at Rice since we joined CUSA. The question will be can he recruit as well as Rhoades!

Or you could just look at VCU that was left in shambles when he took over and see that he has them back into the top 50 playing at large worthy basketball in year 2. Here we are in year 6 or 7 or whatever it is still looking for our first bid.

(02-21-2019 03:59 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Or you could just look at VCU that was left in shambles when he took over and see that he has them back into the top 50 playing at large worthy basketball in year 2. Here we are in year 6 or 7 or whatever it is still looking for our first bid.

I would also imagine recruiting for the A-10 much easier than for CUSA.

(02-21-2019 03:16 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  If you really want to see how good or how bad Rhoads is. Look at Rice. Their new coach is having them playing better than Rhoades ever did. That is the best coached team I've ever seen at Rice since we joined CUSA. The question will be can he recruit as well as Rhoades!

Rice went from being one of the worst teams in the country when Rhoades took over to 23-12 two years later in 2016-17. Rice isn't getting 23 wins this season.

I get that he's a VCU guy so boo hiss, but he made a pretty impressive turnaround in a short time down there. If Will Wade doesn't go for LSU, Rice could have been a low-key CUSA contender last season with almost everyone coming back (I presume that Egor Koulechov was grad tranferring to P5 pastures no matter what).

(02-21-2019 03:59 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Or you could just look at VCU that was left in shambles when he took over and see that he has them back into the top 50 playing at large worthy basketball in year 2. Here we are in year 6 or 7 or whatever it is still looking for our first bid.

They were a top 50 team when Wade left. They returned Vann, Crowfield, Jenkins, Williams, and Tillman. They were far from in shambles.

All I will say is VCU is playing a whole lot better over these past 10-12 games than the squad that was playing soft basketball when we reeled them in from way behind earlier in the year. In fact, I think they look like an entirely different team, but that might sound hyperbolic. Either way, that improvement in buy-in probably has something to do with coaching.

Rhoades might have the Rams in the NCAA in his second season. Still waiting on JJ to do that. Hopefully this year...

(02-21-2019 06:35 PM)monarx Wrote:  Rhoades might have the Rams in the NCAA in his second season. Still waiting on JJ to do that. Hopefully this year...

Geez, Rhoda inherited a team that had been to the dance many years in a row. Jones inherited a 5-25 team.

(02-21-2019 03:59 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Or you could just look at VCU that was left in shambles when he took over and see that he has them back into the top 50 playing at large worthy basketball in year 2. Here we are in year 6 or 7 or whatever it is still looking for our first bid.

Stop trying to bring logic into this and let them hold on to the tiny little sliver of dignity they think they have.

I’d trade jones for rhoades right now in a heart beat, it’s a total no brainer.

Year 2, at large contention. Year 6.......were hoping to win our first regular season or post season title in CUSA, a much weaker conference than the a-10.

Some people just cannot accept reality. Don’t waste your time.