(02-26-2019 12:48 PM)RiceOwl Wrote:  ausowl - the new financial aid matrix will do no harm to recruiting, that's for sure.

From my perspective, targeting recruits based on their ability to receive financial aid as opposed to talent and commitment to education does not make any sense.

The target should be good baseball players looking for a great education. Don't adjust the target simply to find guys who can go to school at a discount.

If a recruit is a (1) good ballplayer, (2) committed to his education, and comes from a (3) low income family that is an added bonus given the new financial aid program.

We don't need to make exceptions on the first two simply because #3 is true.

No one is suggesting such an exception. But there are good recruits who Bragga (or any coach) would want for which a 1/4 athletic scholarship (baseball limited to 11.7 scholarships) would still leave the family with a substantial bill each year. The new program would eliminate that for many of these recruits, allowing them to attend cost free vs. paying 3/4s of the cost of tuition. That's a big deal for many prospective student athletes and their families.

I am not criticizing the new aid program. It's a great way for us to tack on money where we can.

I believe that we should avoid validating certain recruits for simply qualifying for financial aid, especially if their abilities and academic prowess are marginal.

Financial aid should not be a qualifying factor for which kids we recruit - it needs to be the icing on the cake.

We should not be convincing ourselves to recruit someone because they can go to school at a discounted price or for free. Focus on baseball and academics!

Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

(02-26-2019 08:49 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

Criminal levels of bureaucracy basically. Rice seemingly has more associate deans and Vice Presidents than Wells Fargo does.

(02-26-2019 06:54 PM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I am not criticizing the new aid program. It's a great way for us to tack on money where we can.

I believe that we should avoid validating certain recruits for simply qualifying for financial aid, especially if their abilities and academic prowess are marginal.

Financial aid should not be a qualifying factor for which kids we recruit - it needs to be the icing on the cake.

We should not be convincing ourselves to recruit someone because they can go to school at a discounted price or for free. Focus on baseball and academics!

Again, no one has suggested anything close to what you worried about.

(02-26-2019 11:59 AM)ausowl Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 12:01 PM)Throwing Chade Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 11:39 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  The scholarship excuse again. We have to differentiate ourselves via performance and degree. Trying to save the program with nickel and dime-ing is a waste of time.

I said this on a previous forum, but Rice is as strong as an institution as it has ever been. If recruits need additional selling points then perhaps we are targeting the wrong ones.

Show all of the kids starting salaries of Rice grads and former players vs. starting salaries at other schools. We win that battle 99 times out of 100. I know plenty of former players would be willing to share that information anonymously.

Kids and parents need to be realistic - a sustained career in the MLB is a long-shot even for the very best college baseball players. If they cannot accept and acknowledge that fact then they probably should not be considering Rice in the first place.

Yeah the scholarship issue has been debunked more times than I care to count. Also, many Rice teams in the past have had a roster stacked with kids coming from affluent families that value the education at a higher monetary cost. Those teams were also some of the more mentally sound teams we have had. We simply out executed other teams and didn't shoot ourselves in the foot. Not sure why the recruiting target has changed.

Seems counterintuitive that the new financial aid matrix wouldn't have a positive effect on recruiting.

Rice does not need additional reasons to narrow the pool of available recruits. It is nominally one of the most expensive schools in the country.

(02-26-2019 08:56 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 08:49 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

Criminal levels of bureaucracy basically. Rice seemingly has more associate deans and Vice Presidents than Wells Fargo does.

Don't kid yourself that this issue is limited to Rice.

(02-26-2019 08:49 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

That's sticker price. ~55% of freshman get aid - which should be 60+% for USA students since few intl students historically get aid. Avg aid in 17-18 was >~$36K. Net average cost for the ~60% receiving aid was $27K. That will increase with the new aid package, whereby any family earning under $200K will apparently receive at least a 50% discount on tuition.

(02-27-2019 01:24 AM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 08:49 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

That's sticker price. ~55% of freshman get aid - which should be 60+% for USA students since few intl students historically get aid. Avg aid in 17-18 was >~$36K. Net average cost for the ~60% receiving aid was $27K. That will increase with the new aid package, whereby any family earning under $200K will apparently receive at least a 50% discount on tuition.

That increase follows all higher education increases. It goes to overhead, with silly to ridiculous positions on the non-teaching admin side, and also to expensive infrastructure upkeep as the facility upgrades keep on coming.

However (and maybe someone else already said this), while the retail price of college keeps going up, the average cost is decreasing, because fewer and fewer people pay full retail.

(02-27-2019 07:36 AM)owlsfan Wrote:  

(02-27-2019 01:24 AM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 08:49 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

That's sticker price. ~55% of freshman get aid - which should be 60+% for USA students since few intl students historically get aid. Avg aid in 17-18 was >~$36K. Net average cost for the ~60% receiving aid was $27K. That will increase with the new aid package, whereby any family earning under $200K will apparently receive at least a 50% discount on tuition.

That increase follows all higher education increases. It goes to overhead, with silly to ridiculous positions on the non-teaching admin side, and also to expensive infrastructure upkeep as the facility upgrades keep on coming.

However (and maybe someone else already said this), while the retail price of college keeps going up, the average cost is decreasing, because fewer and fewer people pay full retail.

I disagree that the average cost is decreasing-don't kid youself, what may be decreasing is the percent of actual over retail. Just like rack rate at hotels.

And don't forget room and board, but that has a lot to do with perks that have become the norm.

(02-27-2019 01:24 AM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 08:49 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Full boat at Rice, at what 65k/yr all in, is simply just out of reach of 95%+ of families in the country. The increase in the cost of education over the past 25-40 yrs is a true uncovered scandal. Not one thing in this time has inflated in such a manner, not even mentioning whether there has been any enhancement. Just where does all that money go?

To overlook this as not contributing to the situation is to be blind to reality.

That's sticker price. ~55% of freshman get aid - which should be 60+% for USA students since few intl students historically get aid. Avg aid in 17-18 was >~$36K. Net average cost for the ~60% receiving aid was $27K. That will increase with the new aid package, whereby any family earning under $200K will apparently receive at least a 50% discount on tuition.

My daughter is now a freshman, and I think the cost estimators for UT and Rice showed that the total cost of attendance (TCA) for Rice was about 150% of what it was for UT... roughly $20k versus $30k. The shock to me at the time that I talked to Rice financial aid was when I asked "what if she gets grants or scholarships... how much would that reduce our parental contribution?" The answer was zero. I think her contribution was already capped, so unless she would have gotten something that would have paid more than about $25-30,000, it seemed to me that any scholarships would have zero benefit for our family.

(02-27-2019 06:52 PM)I45owl Wrote:  My daughter is now a freshman, and I think the cost estimators for UT and Rice showed that the total cost of attendance (TCA) for Rice was about 150% of what it was for UT... roughly $20k versus $30k. The shock to me at the time that I talked to Rice financial aid was when I asked "what if she gets grants or scholarships... how much would that reduce our parental contribution?" The answer was zero. I think her contribution was already capped, so unless she would have gotten something that would have paid more than about $25-30,000, it seemed to me that any scholarships would have zero benefit for our family.

Welcome to the shocking truth of modern university financing: You child's merit scholarships have no bearing on your "Expected Family Contribution" to her education.

Rice is not unique in this behavior.

That is my experience as well. If you get a scholarship, then Rice reduces their aid equivocally.

let's see if this works again....

Success.

Might have to keep this thread alive.

With this offense, this thread may be needed several more times this year.

Bragga is facing the same bare cupboard Bloomgreen had upon his arrival.