I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

I just called down to Hell. It has not frozen over so no - No Uconn

(02-21-2019 05:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

I just called down to Hell. It has not frozen over so no - No Uconn

I don't disagree. I was just using them as an example. I think Cincinnati or Temple would provide the best fits for the ACC. They would also add Ohio or New Jersey to the ACC TV footprint. With the Altice agreement we already have NYC and Connecticut.

(02-21-2019 05:50 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

I just called down to Hell. It has not frozen over so no - No Uconn

I don't disagree. I was just using them as an example. I think Cincinnati or Temple would provide the best fits for the ACC. They would also add Ohio or New Jersey to the ACC TV footprint. With the Altice agreement we already have NYC and Connecticut.

Temple does not have the football program to merit a bid, nor does UConn. Think of it this way, who is Clemson, FSU, VT, NC State, GT, and Miami willing to add with an eye toward their football stadiums. I can assure you that no one in the Atlantic wants a third game with a team in the Northeast. It's not personal. Just look were the top 300 football players come from.

If they could be trusted to actually maintain an athletic program Tulane is the ideal addition not in a P-5. The problem is that you can't trust them because they have deemphasized sports three times in the last 60 years.

When it comes to adding revenue on a per school basis, only Penn State, Auburn, Texas, TAMU, Tennessee, Alabama, Ohio State, Florida, LSU and maybe Oklahoma do that. I don't see many of them shopping around.

Even Notre Dame, Kentucky, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Vandy, and Ole Miss would likely just pay their increased share.

If ESPN wants to pay every ACC team another $10M per year, I'm sure they'd agree to take both Cincinnati AND UConn.

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

We should approach Northwestern and Purdue. I heard that they are not happy with B1G. Chicago market is a great add-on for ACC network.

(02-21-2019 07:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If ESPN wants to pay every ACC team another $10M per year, I'm sure they'd agree to take both Cincinnati AND UConn.

You think ESPN will pop for almost $90 million a year for UConn?

75 million to the league and then UConn's share?

(02-21-2019 07:39 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 07:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If ESPN wants to pay every ACC team another $10M per year, I'm sure they'd agree to take both Cincinnati AND UConn.

You think ESPN will pop for almost $90 million a year for UConn?

75 million to the league and then UConn's share?

Hmmm, let me think.... No!

(02-21-2019 07:08 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

We should approach Northwestern and Purdue. I heard that they are not happy with B1G. Chicago market is a great add-on for ACC network.

And where are you hearing this stuff? Or is this just sarcasm (sorry, my sarcasm meter is broken at the moment)?

Unless a school in the SEC decides it really doesn't need all that money or desirable bowl destinations and wants to jump ship, I'm not seeing it.

(02-21-2019 09:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  Unless a school in the SEC decides it really doesn't need all that money or desirable bowl destinations and wants to jump ship, I'm not seeing it.

Don't be ridiculous. Many Big Ten teams would work just fine!

The ACC doesn't have the leverage to make an offer to Tennessee at this time, so no.

(02-21-2019 07:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If ESPN wants to pay every ACC team another $10M per year, I'm sure they'd agree to take both Cincinnati AND UConn.

What about TCU, SMU, or Houston ?? Adds a new state to the ACC.

Right after the rumors of Texas—>Pac imploded, Deloss Dodds said that he wouldn't really have considered that move because it would have been very bad for the student athletes to lose 2 hours every time they returned home from a road trip. In reality, he said that the seemingly less believable rumors of Texas—>ACC rumors were actually closer to the truth, since that would've been healthier for the players in all sports.

So there's no way expansion will ever be discussed in the ACC unless Texas and Oklahoma start putting out feelers as the B12 GOR begins to wind down. If both of those schools stay put, then that whole conference is safe. But if one of them bolts they both will—probably to separate conferences—taking whoever's lucky enough to get a ticket out of there with them.

Conventional wisdom still says if the B12 falls apart that the Pac12 will benefit. But I still believe that Texas, at least, will avoid putting that kind of stress on its students (not to mention the fact that Pac's business model is a dumpster fire). With A&M dead-set against it, I doubt they'd end up in the SEC. The Longhorn Network is probably completely incompatible with the Big Ten Network. Which leaves only the ACC, whose network is through the same company as UT's.

So the ACC won't consider an AAC school as long as we don't know what's going to happen to the B12. Even if it provided small short-term benefits (which it probably wouldn't), it would be s bad business decision in the long run. I predict 2 possibilities:

1. B12 survives as is, perhaps eventually inviting 2 AAC teams to get back to 12—or...
2. Oklahoma to the SEC (along with OSU, perhaps), and Texas to the ACC—perhaps alone, (since we're contractually obligated to let ND in should they their football team to play in a conference), or maybe with (my personal choice) Kansas or (for political reasons) TTech. WVU would be highly unlikely—not for the reasons often quoted, but simply because I think Texas would prefer at least one team in their time zone.

(02-21-2019 05:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

I just called down to Hell. It has not frozen over so no - No Uconn

In 2012, 2013, and probably midway through 2014 in terms of realistic candidates I was an advocate for UConn or Cincy if WVU wasn't going to be added. Now, I am totally against UConn and "meh" on Cincy. If the league isn't going to add WVU, then keep things as they are.

Cheers,
Neil

(02-22-2019 09:22 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I realize there is no expansion talk right now for the ACC. However there is a convergence of things that could spur the ACC to grow by a school.

1. The launch of the ACC network. Expansion would expand the geographic footprint and generate additional revenues. Is there a candidate that would bring enough revenue to pay for itself?

2. The AAC broadcast rights negotiations. The last time we saw this, ESPN decided it was better to add Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC which was a partner, rather than pay for the Big East's broadcast rights. If they hit an impass, does ESPN decide to move Cincinnati or UConn to get the most bang for their buck?

3. Championship game participation. With the B1G wanting to revisit the way the participants of the championship game are selected, there may be an opportunity to add a team and potentially split into more that 2 divisions.

I don't know that this will result in expansion, but these factors could make the option more appealing.

I just called down to Hell. It has not frozen over so no - No Uconn

In 2012, 2013, and probably midway through 2014 in terms of realistic candidates I was an advocate for UConn or Cincy if WVU wasn't going to be added. Now, I am totally against UConn and "meh" on Cincy. If the league isn't going to add WVU, then keep things as they are.

Cheers,
Neil

This thread is about expansion. With that in mind, I would not consider adding UConn to be an act of "expansion". Two other words would come into my mind: "contraction" and "suicide". Neither of those are likely. UConn would never have the votes.

Our southern wing is, and should be, adamantly opposed to adding another northern, basketball first school. Especially one whose basketball fortunes are on the brink of disaster. It's not our job to save them from that fate. More important, it's not ESPN's job, either.

IMO, there is zero chance UConn will ever be part of the ACC unless the league has already imploded by defections to other P5 conferences.

Wait... you guys didn't tell me you were having another expansion thread ! Good thing I found this on my own!!!

Expansion really isn't about "moving needles" and stadium size...

It's about leverage for your conference against the other conferences. It's about showing up in their back yard, planting your flag and claiming the territory as yours.

So... Who's got most of the leverage right now?

No, it aint the good ol' boys in the SEC.

It's... the B1G.

The B1G can do whatever they want. They've already done it to the ACC. They walked right in, grabbed Maryland and said "we're taking this, thank you very much" and there wasn't a darned thing the ACC could do about it.

Nobody wants to leave the B1G. The SEC? I bet if they're truthful Mizzou would admit they'd leave the SEC for the B1G tomorrow if they could.

So what should you do in expansion? If you're smart, you'd want to push back against the B1G.

Hmmm... who could you get that's right there in the middle B1G country and have already proven that when given the chance, they can play with the big boys. Who could immediately start weakening the B1G's cash cow, O$U? Who is sitting right smack dab in the middle of O$U, Michigan, PSU, MSU, and ND's prime football recruit shopping area? Heck, even BC shows up every now and then.

But... what do I know. Just keep looking for those needle moving unicorns.

(02-22-2019 12:18 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Wait... you guys didn't tell me you were having another expansion thread ! Good thing I found this on my own!!!

Expansion really isn't about "moving needles" and stadium size...

It's about leverage for your conference against the other conferences. It's about showing up in their back yard, planting your flag and claiming the territory as yours.

So... Who's got most of the leverage right now?

No, it aint the good ol' boys in the SEC.

It's... the B1G.

The B1G can do whatever they want. They've already done it to the ACC. They walked right in, grabbed Maryland and said "we're taking this, thank you very much" and there wasn't a darned thing the ACC could do about it.

Nobody wants to leave the B1G. The SEC? I bet if they're truthful Mizzou would admit they'd leave the SEC for the B1G tomorrow if they could.

So what should you do in expansion? If you're smart, you'd want to push back against the B1G.

Hmmm... who could you get that's right there in the middle B1G country and have already proven that when given the chance, they can play with the big boys. Who could immediately start weakening the B1G's cash cow, O$U? Who is sitting right smack dab in the middle of O$U, Michigan, PSU, MSU, and ND's prime football recruit shopping area? Heck, even BC shows up every now and then.

But... what do I know. Just keep looking for those needle moving unicorns.

That certainly is a puzzle. Could you give us a hint?

(02-22-2019 12:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 12:18 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Wait... you guys didn't tell me you were having another expansion thread ! Good thing I found this on my own!!!

Expansion really isn't about "moving needles" and stadium size...

It's about leverage for your conference against the other conferences. It's about showing up in their back yard, planting your flag and claiming the territory as yours.

So... Who's got most of the leverage right now?

No, it aint the good ol' boys in the SEC.

It's... the B1G.

The B1G can do whatever they want. They've already done it to the ACC. They walked right in, grabbed Maryland and said "we're taking this, thank you very much" and there wasn't a darned thing the ACC could do about it.

Nobody wants to leave the B1G. The SEC? I bet if they're truthful Mizzou would admit they'd leave the SEC for the B1G tomorrow if they could.

So what should you do in expansion? If you're smart, you'd want to push back against the B1G.

Hmmm... who could you get that's right there in the middle B1G country and have already proven that when given the chance, they can play with the big boys. Who could immediately start weakening the B1G's cash cow, O$U? Who is sitting right smack dab in the middle of O$U, Michigan, PSU, MSU, and ND's prime football recruit shopping area? Heck, even BC shows up every now and then.

But... what do I know. Just keep looking for those needle moving unicorns.

That certainly is a puzzle. Could you give us a hint?

It's not Xavier.