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Will the ACC expand soon?
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esayem Offline
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Post: #381
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(04-29-2019 02:21 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  So hypothetically speaking Mark, what do you think would be a fair penalty to impose as a conference for a program that, according to informants in a FBI investigation, straight up paid basketball and football players? How about if that same school committed organized academic fraud and covered it up? Now what if that same school also had apparel companies funneling money to recruits to go there? Now what if all of this occurred in a mere decade?

Asking hypothetically. For a friend.

Sounds like a hypothetical witch hunt to me. 04-wine
04-30-2019 05:59 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(04-29-2019 10:10 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 01:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, we’re fine how we are. But if Virginia Tech wants to join Texas, Oklahoma, and WVU in the Big XII, I’m sure we won’t miss you too terribly. 04-cheers

No point in arguing because

1. ACC will never accept WVU.
2. VT will never leave the ACC.

1. That possibility looks bleak at this point. I think it would have been down to West Virginia vs. Louisville (once UConn was eliminated) to replace Maryland. Remember, the Big XII chose WVU over Louisville, when Louisville is actually closer to their footprint. On the great totem pole of realignment, WVU was ahead of Louisville at that time.

2. True, they know better
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2019 06:04 AM by esayem.)
04-30-2019 06:02 AM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #383
Question RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(04-30-2019 06:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 10:10 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 01:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, we’re fine how we are. But if Virginia Tech wants to join Texas, Oklahoma, and WVU in the Big XII, I’m sure we won’t miss you too terribly. 04-cheers

No point in arguing because

1. ACC will never accept WVU.
2. VT will never leave the ACC.

1. That possibility looks bleak at this point. I think it would have been down to West Virginia vs. Louisville (once UConn was eliminated) to replace Maryland. Remember, the Big XII chose WVU over Louisville, when Louisville is actually closer to their footprint. On the great totem pole of realignment, WVU was ahead of Louisville at that time.

2. True, they know better

I was so curious about the possibility of inviting WVU in 2011/2012 that I started a thread on that topic. In my opinion, "Never WVU" sentiment was and is too strong to overcome. Big XII didn't care much about WVU's fan behavior and the admission standard.
04-30-2019 01:03 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #384
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
Hypothetically, if the Big XII chose BYU instead of West Virginia, I think the Mountaineers would be in the ACC (to replace Maryland) and Louisville and probably Cincinnati would have eventually been added to the Big XII. If that were the case, I think Pitt switches divisions with Syracuse. Then we get cross division match-ups of SU-BC, UVa-Pitt, VaTech-WVU. Season enders of SU-Miami and Pitt-WVU. BC would have to go outside the conference for a rivalry week game.

WVU was off the table, so we will never know. Maybe Louisville gets in anyway, I’m not sure. The ACC was in replacement mode, so normal factors weren’t as important, otherwise we would have UConn playing Clemson every year.

I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?
05-01-2019 08:00 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #385
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.
05-01-2019 12:18 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #386
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 12:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.

Interesting question. Syracuse has always been on the Big Ten radar, so I think they would have gone for Syracuse and Maryland. No way to know, that is for sure.
05-01-2019 01:15 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #387
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 12:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.
I've said on numerous occasions that the ACC should've included WVU and Rutgers in the 2012 expansion. That would've given the ACC a strong 16-school presence (with Maryland) from Boston to DC to Miami.
05-01-2019 05:19 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #388
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 05:19 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 12:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.
I've said on numerous occasions that the ACC should've included WVU and Rutgers in the 2012 expansion. That would've given the ACC a strong 16-school presence (with Maryland) from Boston to DC to Miami.

Do you think Maryland would've left if WVU had been in the ACC?
05-01-2019 06:22 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #389
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 06:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Do you think Maryland would've left if WVU had been in the ACC?


Would WVU have had the votes to begin with? I have a very hard time imagining yes votes from UMD, UVA, GT, and Duke. I come back to the same thing I come back to every time: WVU could get an ACC invite tomorrow if they were willing to do some introspective work. They don't want to. Let them take their D cell battery parade to the burgeoning metropolises of Ames and Lubbock instead.
05-01-2019 07:04 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #390
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 07:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 06:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Do you think Maryland would've left if WVU had been in the ACC?


Would WVU have had the votes to begin with? I have a very hard time imagining yes votes from UMD, UVA, GT, and Duke. I come back to the same thing I come back to every time: WVU could get an ACC invite tomorrow if they were willing to do some introspective work. They don't want to. Let them take their D cell battery parade to the burgeoning metropolises of Ames and Lubbock instead.

NO!
05-01-2019 08:10 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #391
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 06:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 05:19 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 12:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.
I've said on numerous occasions that the ACC should've included WVU and Rutgers in the 2012 expansion. That would've given the ACC a strong 16-school presence (with Maryland) from Boston to DC to Miami.

Do you think Maryland would've left if WVU had been in the ACC?
No. But with Cuse, Pitt, WVU and RU in the ACC, Maryland's only Mid-Atlantic rival would've been Penn State. And no Maryland fan cares about Penn State athletics other than football.
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2019 10:08 PM by NJ2MDTerp.)
05-01-2019 09:58 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
Do Maryland fans care about, wait for it.....Rutgers?!?!

WVU didn’t have the votes to get in as an expansion candidate (not in 1953 and not in 2011), but as a replacement is a totally different story.
05-01-2019 11:20 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #393
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 11:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Do Maryland fans care about, wait for it.....Rutgers?!?!

WVU didn’t have the votes to get in as an expansion candidate (not in 1953 and not in 2011), but as a replacement is a totally different story.
Since my home state is NJ, I actually like having RU as a rival. As the flagship with no in-state competition, it has potential. Plus Maryland recruits NJ statewide, both academically and athletically. Maryland is called the state school of New Jersey residents. And NJ is only a little more than 3-hour drive from DC. So playing RU is a plus overall.
05-01-2019 11:42 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #394
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 09:58 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 06:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 05:19 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 12:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.
I've said on numerous occasions that the ACC should've included WVU and Rutgers in the 2012 expansion. That would've given the ACC a strong 16-school presence (with Maryland) from Boston to DC to Miami.

Do you think Maryland would've left if WVU had been in the ACC?
No. But with Cuse, Pitt, WVU and RU in the ACC, Maryland's only Mid-Atlantic rival would've been Penn State. And no Maryland fan cares about Penn State athletics other than football.

This is intriguing. Basically it would be a merge of ACC and old BEFC (except for Temple). UConn could be in the mix as well. ND would have parked its basketball and olympic sports at the new BE. Two questions:

1. This 16 team ACC + OBE combo could generate more revenue per school than 14 team plus partial ND?
2. The grant of rights would be approved? If not, Maryland and RU might still have left for BIG. ACC would be left with 14 teams including WVU or UConn instead of Louisville and without the partial ND deal. 05-stirthepot
05-01-2019 11:47 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #395
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 12:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened had the ACC expanded with Syracuse and Rutgers? Would the Big Ten invited Pitt and Maryland? Would their expansion plans been foiled to some degree?

What if the ACC had expanded with WVU and Rutgers? Would Maryland have left at all? Would the Big Ten have grown past 12? If so, would it have been all Westward (Kansas and Missouri or Oklahoma)?

Hindsight is 20/20.

Well, before the Big Ten's raid, there was a partial ND deal. Would WVU and RU give the same leverage to the ACC in negotiating with ND as Pitt and Syracuse did? Remember the last three expansion teams (BC, Pitt, and Syracuse) have very good relationship with ND.
05-02-2019 12:08 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #396
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-01-2019 11:42 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Do Maryland fans care about, wait for it.....Rutgers?!?!

WVU didn’t have the votes to get in as an expansion candidate (not in 1953 and not in 2011), but as a replacement is a totally different story.
Since my home state is NJ, I actually like having RU as a rival. As the flagship with no in-state competition, it has potential. Plus Maryland recruits NJ statewide, both academically and athletically. Maryland is called the state school of New Jersey residents. And NJ is only a little more than 3-hour drive from DC. So playing RU is a plus overall.

There should be a Northeastern conference:
Maryland, West Virginia, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Cincinnati and maybe throw in Temple and UConn too!
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2019 04:58 AM by XLance.)
05-02-2019 04:19 AM
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Post: #397
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-02-2019 04:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:42 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Do Maryland fans care about, wait for it.....Rutgers?!?!

WVU didn’t have the votes to get in as an expansion candidate (not in 1953 and not in 2011), but as a replacement is a totally different story.
Since my home state is NJ, I actually like having RU as a rival. As the flagship with no in-state competition, it has potential. Plus Maryland recruits NJ statewide, both academically and athletically. Maryland is called the state school of New Jersey residents. And NJ is only a little more than 3-hour drive from DC. So playing RU is a plus overall.

There should be a Northeastern conference:
Maryland, West Virginia, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Cincinnati and maybe throw in Temple and UConn too!

My perfect play everyone every year conference.....

Boston College
UConn
Syracuse
Rutgers
Temple
Penn State
Pitt
West Virginia
Army
Navy

Send Louisville and Notre Dame packing and give Maryland and South Carolina back to the ACC to get to 12.

Maryland
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson
South Carolina
Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami

.....you have a clear border between these conferences and Carolina becomes the clear epicenter of the conference again.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2019 10:35 AM by zoocrew.)
05-02-2019 10:29 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #398
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-02-2019 04:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:42 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Do Maryland fans care about, wait for it.....Rutgers?!?!

WVU didn’t have the votes to get in as an expansion candidate (not in 1953 and not in 2011), but as a replacement is a totally different story.
Since my home state is NJ, I actually like having RU as a rival. As the flagship with no in-state competition, it has potential. Plus Maryland recruits NJ statewide, both academically and athletically. Maryland is called the state school of New Jersey residents. And NJ is only a little more than 3-hour drive from DC. So playing RU is a plus overall.

There should be a Northeastern conference:
Maryland, West Virginia, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Cincinnati and maybe throw in Temple and UConn too!

Not to be picky, but I don’t think you could call that a northeastern conference. I suppose it’s northeastern of Tennessee.

I’m okay with Louisville. A former Southern Indy, renegade program with academics on par with another renegade mercenary, FSU.

Don’t ask me how I can spot a renegade. 04-cheers
05-02-2019 12:45 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #399
RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
(05-02-2019 10:29 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  
(05-02-2019 04:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:42 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(05-01-2019 11:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Do Maryland fans care about, wait for it.....Rutgers?!?!

WVU didn’t have the votes to get in as an expansion candidate (not in 1953 and not in 2011), but as a replacement is a totally different story.
Since my home state is NJ, I actually like having RU as a rival. As the flagship with no in-state competition, it has potential. Plus Maryland recruits NJ statewide, both academically and athletically. Maryland is called the state school of New Jersey residents. And NJ is only a little more than 3-hour drive from DC. So playing RU is a plus overall.

There should be a Northeastern conference:
Maryland, West Virginia, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Cincinnati and maybe throw in Temple and UConn too!

My perfect play everyone every year conference.....

Boston College
UConn
Syracuse
Rutgers
Temple
Penn State
Pitt
West Virginia
Army
Navy

Send Louisville and Notre Dame packing and give Maryland and South Carolina back to the ACC to get to 12.

Maryland
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson
South Carolina
Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami

.....you have a clear border between these conferences and Carolina becomes the clear epicenter of the conference again.

I like it .......... one renegade per conference is enough.
05-03-2019 04:59 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Will the ACC expand soon?
Maryland has some history with WV and a little with Syracuse. They accumulated that history while in the ACC. Adding WV and/or Syracuse would not have had any specific value to Maryland.

Maryland has virtually no history with RU or Pitt. Again, no specific value to Maryland.

Marylands first year in the B1G was 2014. WV's first year in the B12 was 2012. WV nuked the oBE in 2011. I'm sure the ACC had some idea Maryland was looking at the B1G prior to the announcement. If so, they didn't express any interest to WV. Given the B12 or ACC choice in 2011/2012 I feel WV would have chose the ACC. In any case, WV wasn't available as a replacement.
05-03-2019 12:14 PM
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