Frankly I think the five schools to look at for a Big 12 reload, in no particular order, are Houston, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and BYU.

Houston helps restore any lost presence in Texas and a foot in a great market.

Cincy serves as a bridge to WVU and a market in the high 30s.

UCF and USF are huge and growing state schools in a fertile recruiting ground in top 20 markets.

BYU is a proven comodity with attendance that surpasses all of the G5 and many P5s with a national following.

You can make a solid argument for any of them.

BYU and Cincinnati make the most sense:

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Cincinnati
BYU

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Baylor
TCU

Football championship: AT&T Stadium, Arlington
Basketball tournament: Sprint Center, Kansas City

(02-21-2019 08:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Frankly I think the five schools to look at for a Big 12 reload, in no particular order, are Houston, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and BYU.

Houston helps restore any lost presence in Texas and a foot in a great market.

Cincy serves as a bridge to WVU and a market in the high 30s.

UCF and USF are huge and growing state schools in a fertile recruiting ground in top 20 markets.

BYU is a proven comodity with attendance that surpasses all of the G5 and many P5s with a national following.

You can make a solid argument for any of them.

Frankly, TV said no to all expansion ideas for the Big 12.

(02-21-2019 08:35 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  BYU and Cincinnati make the most sense:

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Cincinnati
BYU

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Baylor
TCU

Football championship: AT&T Stadium, Arlington
Basketball tournament: Sprint Center, Kansas City

I like this the most. In fact, BYU could be football-only if the XII wanted because 11 basketball schools is easy to schedule.

(02-21-2019 02:53 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:30 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 01:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is roughly the population of Nebraska spread across an extra 52,000 square miles with a lower median income. Academically they fit just fine.


...

Big 12 has some good choices, Big 12 doesn't have GREAT choices but I prefer their situation to Pac-12 where the best choices they have are either in an existing state (SDSU), in a great metro but not perceived a peer in academics (UNLV) or nearly a peer in academics but in a poor low population state (New Mexico) or way out of the footprint (OU and UT).

Sorry, gotta throw the BS flag here.

Using USNWR rankings (yes, I recognize they're not the be all end all, but they'll make the point), here are the Pac-12 schools:

Stanford (#7)
UCLA (#19)
USC (#22)
Cal (#22)
Washington (#59)
Colorado (#96)
Oregon (#102)
Arizona (#106)
Arizona State (#115)
Utah (#119)
Oregon State (#140)
Washington State (#140)

New Mexico (#187)

Your definition of "nearly a peer" is a gigantic stretch, especially when you consider that Nevada (at #201) is closer to New Mexico than New Mexico is to any member of the Pac-12.

In fact, the only Big 12 school in the same USNWR proximity as New Mexico is WVU (#205). Compare that with BYU (#66). Or Cincinnati (#147). Or USF (#124). Or UConn (#63).

USFFan

Did you need the Heimlich straining that there gnat?

Gnat? A full 50% of your argument was about how New Mexico was bringing comparable academics! That's half the damn camel!

USFFan

HAHAHAHA engage in hyperbole much?

New Mexico is not the sort of outlier academically that UNLV or the beaten to death as an idea Boise State is.

Troll on brother if that's your game.

(02-21-2019 08:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Frankly I think the five schools to look at for a Big 12 reload, in no particular order, are Houston, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and BYU.

Houston helps restore any lost presence in Texas and a foot in a great market.

Cincy serves as a bridge to WVU and a market in the high 30s.

UCF and USF are huge and growing state schools in a fertile recruiting ground in top 20 markets.

BYU is a proven comodity with attendance that surpasses all of the G5 and many P5s with a national following.

You can make a solid argument for any of them.

This sort of hits the problem.

There is a pool of plausible schools if Big XII were so inclined but none is just a clear obvious choice.

(02-21-2019 08:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Frankly I think the five schools to look at for a Big 12 reload, in no particular order, are Houston, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and BYU.

Houston helps restore any lost presence in Texas and a foot in a great market.

Cincy serves as a bridge to WVU and a market in the high 30s.

UCF and USF are huge and growing state schools in a fertile recruiting ground in top 20 markets.

BYU is a proven comodity with attendance that surpasses all of the G5 and many P5s with a national following.

You can make a solid argument for any of them.

I'd add UCONN to your list too.

(02-22-2019 09:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:53 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:30 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 01:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is roughly the population of Nebraska spread across an extra 52,000 square miles with a lower median income. Academically they fit just fine.


...

Big 12 has some good choices, Big 12 doesn't have GREAT choices but I prefer their situation to Pac-12 where the best choices they have are either in an existing state (SDSU), in a great metro but not perceived a peer in academics (UNLV) or nearly a peer in academics but in a poor low population state (New Mexico) or way out of the footprint (OU and UT).

Sorry, gotta throw the BS flag here.

Using USNWR rankings (yes, I recognize they're not the be all end all, but they'll make the point), here are the Pac-12 schools:

Stanford (#7)
UCLA (#19)
USC (#22)
Cal (#22)
Washington (#59)
Colorado (#96)
Oregon (#102)
Arizona (#106)
Arizona State (#115)
Utah (#119)
Oregon State (#140)
Washington State (#140)

New Mexico (#187)

Your definition of "nearly a peer" is a gigantic stretch, especially when you consider that Nevada (at #201) is closer to New Mexico than New Mexico is to any member of the Pac-12.

In fact, the only Big 12 school in the same USNWR proximity as New Mexico is WVU (#205). Compare that with BYU (#66). Or Cincinnati (#147). Or USF (#124). Or UConn (#63).

USFFan

Did you need the Heimlich straining that there gnat?

Gnat? A full 50% of your argument was about how New Mexico was bringing comparable academics! That's half the damn camel!

USFFan

HAHAHAHA engage in hyperbole much?

New Mexico is not the sort of outlier academically that UNLV or the beaten to death as an idea Boise State is.

Troll on brother if that's your game.

If pointing out that the University of New Mexico is essentially as close (187-140) to the lowest ranking school in the Pac-12 as they are to UNLV and Boise State (187-230, the upper end of the "schools we don't even bother to rank) as evidence that you're overinflating New Mexico's academic standing makes me a troll, then I'm a troll...

USFFan

(02-22-2019 10:37 AM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 09:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:53 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:30 PM)usffan Wrote:  Sorry, gotta throw the BS flag here.

Using USNWR rankings (yes, I recognize they're not the be all end all, but they'll make the point), here are the Pac-12 schools:

Stanford (#7)
UCLA (#19)
USC (#22)
Cal (#22)
Washington (#59)
Colorado (#96)
Oregon (#102)
Arizona (#106)
Arizona State (#115)
Utah (#119)
Oregon State (#140)
Washington State (#140)

New Mexico (#187)

Your definition of "nearly a peer" is a gigantic stretch, especially when you consider that Nevada (at #201) is closer to New Mexico than New Mexico is to any member of the Pac-12.

In fact, the only Big 12 school in the same USNWR proximity as New Mexico is WVU (#205). Compare that with BYU (#66). Or Cincinnati (#147). Or USF (#124). Or UConn (#63).

USFFan

Did you need the Heimlich straining that there gnat?

Gnat? A full 50% of your argument was about how New Mexico was bringing comparable academics! That's half the damn camel!

USFFan

HAHAHAHA engage in hyperbole much?

New Mexico is not the sort of outlier academically that UNLV or the beaten to death as an idea Boise State is.

Troll on brother if that's your game.

If pointing out that the University of New Mexico is essentially as close (187-140) to the lowest ranking school in the Pac-12 as they are to UNLV and Boise State (187-230, the upper end of the "schools we don't even bother to rank) as evidence that you're overinflating New Mexico's academic standing makes me a troll, then I'm a troll...

USFFan

As a Boise St fan, I don't see us in the same class as New Mexico. We are growing on the academic front but it still is very small steps. It would take us at least 10 years, maybe 15+, to catch up to New Mexico. Even then, New Mexico is a flagship in a much more heavily populated state, borders Texas, and is a left-leaning institution like the PAC.

(02-22-2019 07:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 10:37 AM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 09:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:53 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Did you need the Heimlich straining that there gnat?

Gnat? A full 50% of your argument was about how New Mexico was bringing comparable academics! That's half the damn camel!

USFFan

HAHAHAHA engage in hyperbole much?

New Mexico is not the sort of outlier academically that UNLV or the beaten to death as an idea Boise State is.

Troll on brother if that's your game.

If pointing out that the University of New Mexico is essentially as close (187-140) to the lowest ranking school in the Pac-12 as they are to UNLV and Boise State (187-230, the upper end of the "schools we don't even bother to rank) as evidence that you're overinflating New Mexico's academic standing makes me a troll, then I'm a troll...

USFFan

As a Boise St fan, I don't see us in the same class as New Mexico. We are growing on the academic front but it still is very small steps. It would take us at least 10 years, maybe 15+, to catch up to New Mexico. Even then, New Mexico is a flagship in a much more heavily populated state, borders Texas, and is a left-leaning institution like the PAC.

ARWU had them ranked 201-300 in 2016 (had that year handy). Same as Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Houston and Georgia.

(02-21-2019 09:06 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 08:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Frankly I think the five schools to look at for a Big 12 reload, in no particular order, are Houston, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and BYU.

Houston helps restore any lost presence in Texas and a foot in a great market.

Cincy serves as a bridge to WVU and a market in the high 30s.

UCF and USF are huge and growing state schools in a fertile recruiting ground in top 20 markets.

BYU is a proven comodity with attendance that surpasses all of the G5 and many P5s with a national following.

You can make a solid argument for any of them.

Frankly, TV said no to all expansion ideas for the Big 12.

Yup. Only way the conference expands is if they can lure another P5 set or if either UT or OU or both bolt.