(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 12:13 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 09:38 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  An enrollment drop of over 7,000 students certainly doesn’t help.

People forget that this ESPN deal has destroyed the fan base slowly over a 10 year period. People are not buying season tickets anymore because of it, and thus even the Saturday games are poorly attended now. ESPN deal had been long enough now where we are getting close to have lost an entire generation of fans

It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

Exactly right. You cant say eff you fans for over a decade and expect one game to change things. It took a decade to destroy this, it will take probably just as long to dig out. What's scary though, there is no end to this ESPN deal in sight. I cannot believe the incompetence of leadership in terms of MAC commish and most of ADs in conference. Just so sad

(02-14-2019 04:02 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 12:13 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  People forget that this ESPN deal has destroyed the fan base slowly over a 10 year period. People are not buying season tickets anymore because of it, and thus even the Saturday games are poorly attended now. ESPN deal had been long enough now where we are getting close to have lost an entire generation of fans

It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

Exactly right. You cant say eff you fans for over a decade and expect one game to change things. It took a decade to destroy this, it will take probably just as long to dig out. What's scary though, there is no end to this ESPN deal in sight. I cannot believe the incompetence of leadership in terms of MAC commish and most of ADs in conference. Just so sad

I hate long posts, although I slip into the habit sometimes myself. Anyway ... We know you hate the ESPN/MAC contract. We all hate the ESPN/MAC contract. And if things were different, they wouldn't be the same.

IMO, that contract is only part of it. Perhaps bigger impacts are from a combination of lower enrollment, more commuter students and more on-line students. Students are either not there or have no reason to come back to campus.

Focusing on weekend games, look at the official attendance at recent early-season games and Homcoming, always on a Saturday mid-season.

In 2017: Boston College, 16,421 (Friday evening); Eastern Illinois, 16,722 (Saturday), and in 2018: Utah, 16,762 (Saturday).

Now, Homecomings:
2015: EMU, 17,245
2016: Buffalo, 11,801
2017: Kent State, 11,398
2018: Ohio, 12,138

(Before 2015, Homecoming attendance topped 20,000 except for one year, going back to 2005.)

(For comparison, the all-time single-game "official" attendance record at Huskie Stadium since it opened in 1965 is Homecoming, 2003, with 28,221 vs. WMU.)

You can see that attendance took a nosedive when enrollment took a nosedive, combined with commuter/on-line impacts on top of the "suitcase school" mentality.

Yes, the ESPN/MAC contract has hurt, but let's also add playing 1 of 4 non-conference games at home early in the season. After that first spurt ... nothing for several weeks. And when football does "return" to Huskie Stadium, it's when? Mid-October? When the weather starts to really turn bad?

The loss of home attendance -- no matter WHAT you blame -- is a revenue loss for NIU athletics, making the whole thing a vicious cycle. Hence more o-o-c "payday" games.

But have to ask ... solutions?

(02-14-2019 03:41 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

Probably a mistake to go stand in the middle of this, but it's a slow day.

Anyway, there seems to be a lot of attention on what's wrong with everything. How about trying to keep the excitement level up for the launch of the THammock coaching era? Can we sustain it through fall?

Opener is against Illinois State, which could be a nice draw if promoted. Their enrollment is up or steady. Lots of in-state families, students, alumni to draw from. Can there be an ISU tailgate area set aside? And how about one for NIU students, BTW?

How about a mini hammock (the size of a stapler) to the first 10,000 fans.
Maybe have "NIU" on the hammock
You could sit it on your desk at work.

(02-14-2019 04:34 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 04:02 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

Exactly right. You cant say eff you fans for over a decade and expect one game to change things. It took a decade to destroy this, it will take probably just as long to dig out. What's scary though, there is no end to this ESPN deal in sight. I cannot believe the incompetence of leadership in terms of MAC commish and most of ADs in conference. Just so sad

I hate long posts, although I slip into the habit sometimes myself. Anyway ... We know you hate the ESPN/MAC contract. We all hate the ESPN/MAC contract. And if things were different, they wouldn't be the same.

IMO, that contract is only part of it. Perhaps bigger impacts are from a combination of lower enrollment, more commuter students and more on-line students. Students are either not there or have no reason to come back to campus.

Focusing on weekend games, look at the official attendance at recent early-season games and Homcoming, always on a Saturday mid-season.

In 2017: Boston College, 16,421 (Friday evening); Eastern Illinois, 16,722 (Saturday), and in 2018: Utah, 16,762 (Saturday).

Now, Homecomings:
2015: EMU, 17,245
2016: Buffalo, 11,801
2017: Kent State, 11,398
2018: Ohio, 12,138

(Before 2015, Homecoming attendance topped 20,000 except for one year, going back to 2005.)

(For comparison, the all-time single-game "official" attendance record at Huskie Stadium since it opened in 1965 is Homecoming, 2003, with 28,221 vs. WMU.)

You can see that attendance took a nosedive when enrollment took a nosedive, combined with commuter/on-line impacts on top of the "suitcase school" mentality.

Yes, the ESPN/MAC contract has hurt, but let's also add playing 1 of 4 non-conference games at home early in the season. After that first spurt ... nothing for several weeks. And when football does "return" to Huskie Stadium, it's when? Mid-October? When the weather starts to really turn bad?

The loss of home attendance -- no matter WHAT you blame -- is a revenue loss for NIU athletics, making the whole thing a vicious cycle. Hence more o-o-c "payday" games.

But have to ask ... solutions?

Until the ESPN deal is gone, we are stuck with continued attendance erosion

Point is, even with ESPN-imposed weekday night games, weekend draw is down overall as well. On the other other hand, the TV deal could have an overall deleterious effect on attendance. Now I'm going in circles. Time to take a nap.

(02-14-2019 06:24 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Point is, even with ESPN-imposed weekday night games, weekend draw is down overall as well. On the other other hand, the TV deal could have an overall deleterious effect on attendance. Now I'm going in circles. Time to take a nap.

The main point is the ESPN deal affects not only weekdaygames, but season ticket sales as a whole and thus a big effect on Saturdays too,

(02-14-2019 06:29 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 06:24 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Point is, even with ESPN-imposed weekday night games, weekend draw is down overall as well. On the other other hand, the TV deal could have an overall deleterious effect on attendance. Now I'm going in circles. Time to take a nap.

The main point is the ESPN deal affects not only weekdaygames, but season ticket sales as a whole and thus a big effect on Saturdays too,

I acknowledged that already, so ... probably agree. I would like to know how single-game ticket sales are doing, tho, as an alternative to season sales. Also, ticket sales have little to do with student attendance, which is a component of the drop.

Anyway ... since the ESPN contract isn't going anywhere for years ... and no one seems to have ideas for boosting attendance in spite of it ... (snore.)

And ... How and when did a thread on the (debatable) claim that Toledo has the best recruiting in the MAC turn into a discussion about the ESPN tv contract?

And how -- and why -- did I let myself get dragged into it??!!

Done on this thread.

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 12:13 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 09:38 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  An enrollment drop of over 7,000 students certainly doesn’t help.

People forget that this ESPN deal has destroyed the fan base slowly over a 10 year period. People are not buying season tickets anymore because of it, and thus even the Saturday games are poorly attended now. ESPN deal had been long enough now where we are getting close to have lost an entire generation of fans

It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

(02-14-2019 09:00 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 12:13 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  People forget that this ESPN deal has destroyed the fan base slowly over a 10 year period. People are not buying season tickets anymore because of it, and thus even the Saturday games are poorly attended now. ESPN deal had been long enough now where we are getting close to have lost an entire generation of fans

It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

The ESPN deal is a real thing. It's the reason I'm not renewing anymore this year and I know others who have done the same

(02-14-2019 10:28 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:00 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

The ESPN deal is a real thing. It's the reason I'm not renewing anymore this year and I know others who have done the same

Have you considered the possibility that the entire MACtion, ESPN deal was one giant conspiracy by NIU just to get you to not renew your tickets?

(02-14-2019 10:28 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:00 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It didn't help when we had more than a decade of complete crap OOC schedule at home.

That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

The ESPN deal is a real thing. It's the reason I'm not renewing anymore this year and I know others who have done the same

When it wasn't MACtion it was the schedule, when it wasn't the schedule, it was MACtion.

MACtion is part of it, another part is NIU's fan base sucks. The schedule? It's just an excuse at this point.

They won their 17th straight game in Huskie Stadium during an Orange Bowl season coming off 11 wins, a MAC Championship, and a bowl victory on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in 2012 against a Big 12 team and had.....18,000 people in attendance. At some point this place needs to come to realization this is one of the worst fan bases in America.

MACtion is not an excuse for drawing 16,700 for Utah, 12,300 for CMU, and 12,100 for Ohio (on homecoming).

95% of mid major fan bases would give an arm for the success this program has had over the last 15 and all this fan base spent the last 3-4 years during was calling for their coach to be fired and not supporting the team.

Is Hammock going to fix that problem? I would love to think so, but I really doubt it. Nobody will go to games this fall and it'll be something else's fault.

And sorry, boasting about not renewing your tickets because of MACtion doesn't make you anything but a ****** fan too. Support your school. The only home game I was able to attend last year was Utah, but you bet your ass I had 2 season tickets.

(02-14-2019 11:50 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:28 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:00 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

The ESPN deal is a real thing. It's the reason I'm not renewing anymore this year and I know others who have done the same

When it wasn't MACtion it was the schedule, when it wasn't the schedule, it was MACtion.

MACtion is part of it, another part is NIU's fan base sucks. The schedule? It's just an excuse at this point.

They won their 17th straight game in Huskie Stadium during an Orange Bowl season coming off 11 wins, a MAC Championship, and a bowl victory on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in 2012 against a Big 12 team and had.....18,000 people in attendance. At some point this place needs to come to realization this is one of the worst fan bases in America.

MACtion is not an excuse for drawing 16,700 for Utah, 12,300 for CMU, and 12,100 for Ohio (on homecoming).

95% of mid major fan bases would give an arm for the success this program has had over the last 15 and all this fan base spent the last 3-4 years during was calling for their coach to be fired and not supporting the team.

Is Hammock going to fix that problem? I would love to think so, but I really doubt it. Nobody will go to games this fall and it'll be something else's fault.

And sorry, boasting about not renewing your tickets because of MACtion doesn't make you anything but a ****** fan too. Support your school. The only home game I was able to attend last year was Utah, but you bet your ass I had 2 season tickets.

You can call it whatever you want but the ESPn deal is why many are jumping ship. I dont blame fans for jumping ship. The line has been crossed and fans just have no reason to buy tickets anymore. We shot ourselves in the foot on this one

It is basketball season and a recruiting thread ends up engaged in football attendance issues. Sorry statement for state of NIU MBB. I try to get to a couple of games each year for football and basketball and admit I like watching games on ESPN when cold. I am too old to take the cold for outdoor football season.

Just to put a fork in the attendance thread. During NIU's attendance peak, you had 8k more students which has a huge multiplier effect with parents and relatives etc. that would be interested in games. You have a much smaller pool now with the drastic decrease in enrollment. The fan base does suck to some extent, but an equally important root cause is enrollment.

(02-15-2019 01:23 AM)MGMFIN86 Wrote:  It is basketball season and a recruiting thread ends up engaged in football attendance issues. Sorry statement for state of NIU MBB. I try to get to a couple of games each year for football and basketball and admit I like watching games on ESPN when cold. I am too old to take the cold for outdoor football season.

Bsketball season doesn’t exist at NIU. It’s foktball season or waiting for football season

Has anybody compared our supposed recruiting rankings this year vs. prior years?

(02-15-2019 10:40 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Has anybody compared our supposed recruiting rankings this year vs. prior years?

That’s getting harder to do as the star ratings creep up. I use overall class ranking(compared to all 132 schools) as opposed to recruit ranking to keep it relative.

(02-14-2019 11:50 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:28 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:00 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

The ESPN deal is a real thing. It's the reason I'm not renewing anymore this year and I know others who have done the same

When it wasn't MACtion it was the schedule, when it wasn't the schedule, it was MACtion.

MACtion is part of it, another part is NIU's fan base sucks. The schedule? It's just an excuse at this point.

They won their 17th straight game in Huskie Stadium during an Orange Bowl season coming off 11 wins, a MAC Championship, and a bowl victory on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in 2012 against a Big 12 team and had.....18,000 people in attendance. At some point this place needs to come to realization this is one of the worst fan bases in America.

MACtion is not an excuse for drawing 16,700 for Utah, 12,300 for CMU, and 12,100 for Ohio (on homecoming).

95% of mid major fan bases would give an arm for the success this program has had over the last 15 and all this fan base spent the last 3-4 years during was calling for their coach to be fired and not supporting the team.

Is Hammock going to fix that problem? I would love to think so, but I really doubt it. Nobody will go to games this fall and it'll be something else's fault.

And sorry, boasting about not renewing your tickets because of MACtion doesn't make you anything but a ****** fan too. Support your school. The only home game I was able to attend last year was Utah, but you bet your ass I had 2 season tickets.

Regarding attendance, I would be interested to see what a Huskie Stadium sellout crowd would look like broken out by its constituencies for lack of a better word. Capacity is 24,000. As an example, to get to that number you need:

5,000 students
4,000 parents and family members
8,000 alumni and family members from within 2 hours of DeKalb
1,000 alumni and family members from outside the area
3,000 DeKalb County and surrounding residents
3,000 fans from the other team

I have no idea if those numbers are right, just that they add up to 24K. If anyone knows better please share. The point is that each group needs to be targeted in order to get better attendance (except for fans from the other team, over which you have no control). An example would be for the team to bring in scholarship or walkon players every year from nearby high schools like DeKalb, Sycamore, Rochelle and the Rockford schools. That would give the local communities a reason to attend games.

(02-14-2019 10:50 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:28 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:00 PM)7 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:44 PM)7 Wrote:  That excuse has proven to be garbage after the BC and Utah games

Not really. The effect is cumulative. After 10 years of that we've lost fans. They won't show up now no matter who we play.

However, we did get more than 4,000 more people for Utah than we did for CMU just a week later. BC that was not the case, but it was also a Friday night game instead of Saturday. Had comparable attendance to EIU, but 4,000 more than the next 3 home games.

Meh I think it’s just an excuse.

The ESPN deal is a real thing. It's the reason I'm not renewing anymore this year and I know others who have done the same

Have you considered the possibility that the entire MACtion, ESPN deal was one giant conspiracy by NIU just to get you to not renew your tickets?