(02-13-2019 10:59 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:27 AM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 09:59 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:58 PM)2Buck Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 03:59 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  Perhaps you'd like to do some real research and compare the number of applications to JMU with those other "national universities" you envy.

Go ahead and spin these admission data points however you and the voices in your head see fit.

School/Acceptance Rate/SAT
UConn / 49% / 1120-1340
Clemson / 51% / 1150-1340
UMass / 60% / 1130-1330
Va Tech / 71% / 1100-1320

Christopher Newport / 62% / 1060-1250
JMU / 72% / 1030-1220
Mary Wash / 74% / 1010-1210

F for research. I asked you to look at the number of applications to JMU and compare the number to “Flagship” unis. While at it, to make up for your failure to do that basic assignment, you can now compare the amount of income unrestricted scholarship money JMU has to offer top students and the unis you so admire.

Serious question: what is the significance in this conversation of number of application to JMU? Is it to show or prove the school’s popularity? The unrestricted scholarship money implications are obvious. More applications would equal higher selectivity I would think...but I admittedly do not know.

The size of the applicant pool is an indication of several things. One, applicant numbers indicate the attractiveness of the institution...simply put, how many students want to go to that particular school? The bigger the number the better. Second, the larger the applicant pool, the more likely it is the institution will meet its enrollment targets. Hitting enrollment targets = $$$. Just last year ODU failed to hit its projected enrollment target and it resulted in major budget revisions that touched on every aspect of the university, including varsity athletics. Thirdly, within a large applicant pool you’re going to have excellent, good, below average and some students who are wasting their time and money applying. The excellent students are those you want to attract, but they’re going to have other choices and have likely applied to several other schools besides JMU. That’s where scholarship money comes in. JMU is a fine institution, but money talks and BS walks.

Standardized test scores represent only a cross-section of what a particular school is currently enrolling, not a cross-section of who is in the applicant pool. I can attest that if JMU was in a position to offer full rides to every member of a freshman cohort the standardized test score for admits would rival Harvard. Unfortunately, JMU doesn’t have that kind of money, so we catch “some” great academically gifted students who score extraordinarily well on standardized tests, and then a larger number of students ready for college, but who (by and large) aren’t getting into an Ivy League school.

Bottom line, large applicant pools (and I don’t need to look up the JMU numbers as I already know them) indicate there is a large demand by qualified HS and transfer students to get into JMU. JMU is in the position of having to offer admission to near 70% of QUALIFIED applicants to meet enrollment targets because the most gifted students are likely to go where the money is being offered. The notion that adding more doctoral or graduate programs at JMU will change the school’s academic profile and magically change the admission profile of undergrads is silly. Improve the scholarship funding to attract top undergrads and you’ll see JMU become more selective and the reported SAT scores go up.

Thanks for the info/insight/answer

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

Thanks

I'm not buying this narrative that JMU is somehow going to hell in a hand basket academically. There will always be some of this noise that JMU has taken their eye off the ball in exchange for some of their growth but JMU to an outsider is a University with a growing reputation. Lot of knit picking- JMU's trajectory is clearly pointed up and some of the negatives people point to are just part of the natural progression from regional liberal arts to eventually national university.

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

I forgot CNU existed until today so this is surprising

(02-14-2019 10:57 AM)HMK Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

Since we want to look at attendance numbers, let's actually do it and not conjecture.

Based on CNU's last home saturday game and JMU's last home mid-week game.

CNU vs Frostburg State (2/9 - attendance: 1193)
JMU vs Hofstra (1/24 - attendance: 2109)

Should JMU's attendance be better heck yeah, but 20-25 years of poor basketball will do that coupled with 10 wins this season.......but still when you compare a mid-week CAA game with a sub-par home team vs a 21-3 Saturday game for DIII school......the numbers are clear JMU clearly has better attendance.

And conversely attendance numbers of CNU's last midweek game vs JMU's last weekend game.

CNU vs Southern Va (2/6 - Attendance: 793)
JMU vs Northeastern (1/26 - Attendance: 2728)

So when you compare Apples to Apples for mid-week vs weekend games.......a poor DI program draws in attendance 2-3x more attendance than a very successful DIII program.

That definitely supports the idea that sports are not important at all at a DIII school. Dang think how bad the CNU attendance would be in a down year.

(02-13-2019 11:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I'm not buying this narrative that JMU is somehow going to hell in a hand basket academically. There will always be some of this noise that JMU has taken their eye off the ball in exchange for some of their growth but JMU to an outsider is a University with a growing reputation. Lot of knit picking- JMU's trajectory is clearly pointed up and some of the negatives people point to are just part of the natural progression from regional liberal arts to eventually national university.

I completely agree with you. The serious ongoing effort to build the endowment (with a focus on scholarship money) will continue to build JMU's brand/name recognition, but it does pinch at times.

As Ron Carrier said once to his question why stadium construction wasn't progressing faster: "Rome wasn't built in a day"...and Ron replied "that's because I wasn't in charge". A funny quip to be sure, and pure Ron. The truth is tho, JMU is a public that "looks" like it has cash to burn, but we need scholarship money to sign the best and brightest, and until that's in hand JMU will continue to admit a large portion of the 24k applications to make sure we hit enrollment targets.

(02-14-2019 11:14 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:57 AM)HMK Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

Since we want to look at attendance numbers, let's actually do it and not conjecture.

Based on CNU's last home saturday game and JMU's last home mid-week game.

CNU vs Frostburg State (2/9 - attendance: 1193)
JMU vs Hofstra (1/24 - attendance: 2109)

Should JMU's attendance be better heck yeah, but 20-25 years of poor basketball will do that coupled with 10 wins this season.......but still when you compare a mid-week CAA game with a sub-par home team vs a 21-3 Saturday game for DIII school......the numbers are clear JMU clearly has better attendance.

And conversely attendance numbers of CNU's last midweek game vs JMU's last weekend game.

CNU vs Southern Va (2/6 - Attendance: 793)
JMU vs Northeastern (1/26 - Attendance: 2728)

So when you compare Apples to Apples for mid-week vs weekend games.......a poor DI program draws in attendance 2-3x more attendance than a very successful DIII program.

That definitely supports the idea that sports are not important at all at a DIII school. Dang think how bad the CNU attendance would be in a down year.

The difference is butts in the seats is probably similar to reported attendance for CNU. At JMU it includes the no shows which on most nights are over 50%.

(02-14-2019 02:05 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:14 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:57 AM)HMK Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

Since we want to look at attendance numbers, let's actually do it and not conjecture.

Based on CNU's last home saturday game and JMU's last home mid-week game.

CNU vs Frostburg State (2/9 - attendance: 1193)
JMU vs Hofstra (1/24 - attendance: 2109)

Should JMU's attendance be better heck yeah, but 20-25 years of poor basketball will do that coupled with 10 wins this season.......but still when you compare a mid-week CAA game with a sub-par home team vs a 21-3 Saturday game for DIII school......the numbers are clear JMU clearly has better attendance.

And conversely attendance numbers of CNU's last midweek game vs JMU's last weekend game.

CNU vs Southern Va (2/6 - Attendance: 793)
JMU vs Northeastern (1/26 - Attendance: 2728)

So when you compare Apples to Apples for mid-week vs weekend games.......a poor DI program draws in attendance 2-3x more attendance than a very successful DIII program.

That definitely supports the idea that sports are not important at all at a DIII school. Dang think how bad the CNU attendance would be in a down year.

The difference is butts in the seats is probably similar to reported attendance for CNU. At JMU it includes the no shows which on most nights are over 50%.

Ok, if you say so......I have never been to a CNU bball game and for that matter did not even know they had a bball team until about 4 hours ago, but I will take your word for it as you appear to be in the know for CNU bball game reported attendance as it compares to actual attendance.

As for JMU game that I have attended this season I think the reported attendance has a been a fair representation of actual attendance.

(02-14-2019 02:05 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:14 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:57 AM)HMK Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

Since we want to look at attendance numbers, let's actually do it and not conjecture.

Based on CNU's last home saturday game and JMU's last home mid-week game.

CNU vs Frostburg State (2/9 - attendance: 1193)
JMU vs Hofstra (1/24 - attendance: 2109)

Should JMU's attendance be better heck yeah, but 20-25 years of poor basketball will do that coupled with 10 wins this season.......but still when you compare a mid-week CAA game with a sub-par home team vs a 21-3 Saturday game for DIII school......the numbers are clear JMU clearly has better attendance.

And conversely attendance numbers of CNU's last midweek game vs JMU's last weekend game.

CNU vs Southern Va (2/6 - Attendance: 793)
JMU vs Northeastern (1/26 - Attendance: 2728)

So when you compare Apples to Apples for mid-week vs weekend games.......a poor DI program draws in attendance 2-3x more attendance than a very successful DIII program.

That definitely supports the idea that sports are not important at all at a DIII school. Dang think how bad the CNU attendance would be in a down year.

The difference is butts in the seats is probably similar to reported attendance for CNU. At JMU it includes the no shows which on most nights are over 50%.

Christopher Newport's enrollment is 5,000, JMU is over 4 times bigger at 22,000, I believe this shows that at poor performing Division 1 schools the fan base is disinterested.

(02-14-2019 02:53 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:05 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:14 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:57 AM)HMK Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  "excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

Since we want to look at attendance numbers, let's actually do it and not conjecture.

Based on CNU's last home saturday game and JMU's last home mid-week game.

CNU vs Frostburg State (2/9 - attendance: 1193)
JMU vs Hofstra (1/24 - attendance: 2109)

Should JMU's attendance be better heck yeah, but 20-25 years of poor basketball will do that coupled with 10 wins this season.......but still when you compare a mid-week CAA game with a sub-par home team vs a 21-3 Saturday game for DIII school......the numbers are clear JMU clearly has better attendance.

And conversely attendance numbers of CNU's last midweek game vs JMU's last weekend game.

CNU vs Southern Va (2/6 - Attendance: 793)
JMU vs Northeastern (1/26 - Attendance: 2728)

So when you compare Apples to Apples for mid-week vs weekend games.......a poor DI program draws in attendance 2-3x more attendance than a very successful DIII program.

That definitely supports the idea that sports are not important at all at a DIII school. Dang think how bad the CNU attendance would be in a down year.

The difference is butts in the seats is probably similar to reported attendance for CNU. At JMU it includes the no shows which on most nights are over 50%.

Ok, if you say so......I have never been to a CNU bball game and for that matter did not even know they had a bball team until about 4 hours ago, but I will take your word for it as you appear to be in the know for CNU bball game reported attendance as it compares to actual attendance.

As for JMU game that I have attended this season I think the reported attendance has a been a fair representation of actual attendance.

Next time you go to a basketball game count the fans in the lower bowl on the opposite side. In the first place it's sad there are so few fans you can do that, but.... Next double that to account for the side you are on. On most nights that will be less than 1,000 in the lower bowl. That's likely at least 80% of the fans unless it's book club day.

(02-14-2019 03:04 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:53 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 02:05 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:14 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:57 AM)HMK Wrote:  I suspect that the attendance for our home basketball game tonight will be similar to the attendance Division 3's Christopher Newport's (21-3, 13-0 home games) home game Saturday afternoon.

Since we want to look at attendance numbers, let's actually do it and not conjecture.

Based on CNU's last home saturday game and JMU's last home mid-week game.

CNU vs Frostburg State (2/9 - attendance: 1193)
JMU vs Hofstra (1/24 - attendance: 2109)

Should JMU's attendance be better heck yeah, but 20-25 years of poor basketball will do that coupled with 10 wins this season.......but still when you compare a mid-week CAA game with a sub-par home team vs a 21-3 Saturday game for DIII school......the numbers are clear JMU clearly has better attendance.

And conversely attendance numbers of CNU's last midweek game vs JMU's last weekend game.

CNU vs Southern Va (2/6 - Attendance: 793)
JMU vs Northeastern (1/26 - Attendance: 2728)

So when you compare Apples to Apples for mid-week vs weekend games.......a poor DI program draws in attendance 2-3x more attendance than a very successful DIII program.

That definitely supports the idea that sports are not important at all at a DIII school. Dang think how bad the CNU attendance would be in a down year.

The difference is butts in the seats is probably similar to reported attendance for CNU. At JMU it includes the no shows which on most nights are over 50%.

Ok, if you say so......I have never been to a CNU bball game and for that matter did not even know they had a bball team until about 4 hours ago, but I will take your word for it as you appear to be in the know for CNU bball game reported attendance as it compares to actual attendance.

As for JMU game that I have attended this season I think the reported attendance has a been a fair representation of actual attendance.

Next time you go to a basketball game count the fans in the lower bowl on the opposite side. In the first place it's sad there are so few fans you can do that, but.... Next double that to account for the side you are on. On most nights that will be less than 1,000 in the lower bowl. That's likely at least 80% of the fans unless it's book club day.

Here is a quote from today's Daily News Record in regards to the crowd size Drexel game, "— the announced crowd of 2,084 looked closer to half that —"

(02-14-2019 10:32 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 09:03 AM)jmuroadwarrior Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 08:20 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(02-13-2019 10:18 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  Similar thing happened to my daughter a few years ago (JMU Vs. CNU) but after you netted it out, cost we're about the same. Saying that, I know many top notch student friends did not consider JMU due to lack of scholarships.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using CSNbbs mobile app

This is clearly circumstantial but I know of two more similar instances. Friend is a JMU grad and current JMU employee. Had two children who were very gifted academically. They were both choosing (1 already chose 1 is a Sr still making their final pick) between JMU and CNU. I also must have missed the memo when CNU became a legit contender, I honestly thought it was still a CC when they first told me. The first kid already picked CNU over JMU and the second is leaning that way even though she really wants to stay local. Both of their reasons are similar, "CNU is academically equal if not superior and CNU is willing to give more scholarships to top academic students" Obviously, there is no sports hook to speak of there and the area and campus is nowhere near ours but I'm hearing a lot recently about how CNU is attracting and getting some of the top academic kids behind UVA and WM.

I think at this point we have one of the best looking campuses and we have arguably the best sports teams overall but if does sound like other schools are targeting the top academic kids more than us, at least from what I've seen/heard in my small bubble, which again is circumstantial.

CNU has excellent sports teams. The MBB are currently 21-3 with the WBB at 19-5. Probably one of the top athletic programs in all of D3. These and other sports are routinely in the post season NCAA tournaments.

I like their facilities too: https://www.cnusports.com/sports/2010/2/...04831.aspx

And I hate to say this, their pep band may be the top one in VA.

"excellent sports teams" is subjective particularly when they play Division III sports. Nothing wrong with DIII but it is typically played in front of a few hundred fans. I attended a NAIA school for a year and the bball team, which regularly competed for 'ships was a passing thought and had probably 50-100 fans at a big game. I wouoldn't consider DIII or NAIA as excellent sports schools. Nothing wrong with them but most of those campuses don't get fired up about game day or even know when it is.

You should have gone to Hope College instead of that NAIA place.