(02-09-2019 02:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 02:11 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Rumor is BYU is getting paid $8 million a year. Is it true?

Before anybody start with realignment scenarios for BYU, it all starts and ends with Utah. Unless they get a Big XII invitation (in its current form), BYU won’t join a conference while Utah enjoys the benefits of being in a P5 league. They’d rather stay independent and play multiple P5 rather than playing a MWC or AAC schedule.

It changes. What people have been able to piece together is that they are paid more for appearances on certain networks. If they are on ESPN or ABC---they earn more than being on ESPN2 or ESPNU. Based on the numbers, 8 sounds a little high and would be a figure they might approach in a best case scenario where all their games are on ESPN and ABC. My guess is 4-6 million a year is more where they typically live under this deal.

That would be bad for us (AAC) in my opinion. I feel like whatever BYU gets will be the high end of what we get per school, because BYU has the flexibility to schedule better games than we can on average.

(02-09-2019 04:34 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 02:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 02:11 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Rumor is BYU is getting paid $8 million a year. Is it true?

Before anybody start with realignment scenarios for BYU, it all starts and ends with Utah. Unless they get a Big XII invitation (in its current form), BYU won’t join a conference while Utah enjoys the benefits of being in a P5 league. They’d rather stay independent and play multiple P5 rather than playing a MWC or AAC schedule.

It changes. What people have been able to piece together is that they are paid more for appearances on certain networks. If they are on ESPN or ABC---they earn more than being on ESPN2 or ESPNU. Based on the numbers, 8 sounds a little high and would be a figure they might approach in a best case scenario where all their games are on ESPN and ABC. My guess is 4-6 million a year is more where they typically live under this deal.

That would be bad for us (AAC) in my opinion. I feel like whatever BYU gets will be the high end of what we get per school, because BYU has the flexibility to schedule better games than we can on average.

To be clear---the range Im quoting is what they get now on their 8 year old deal. I have no idea what they WILL get on their NEW deal.

(02-09-2019 04:05 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 03:44 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Mountain West grew too quickly when Utah left.

No, they didn't. Here's what happened:

June 2010 -- Utah accepts invitation from Pac-10. Boise State accepts invitation from MWC.

August 2010 -- BYU agrees to Karl Benson's idiotic scheme that ended up destroying the WAC. The plan was to have BYU leave the MWC, become indy in FB, and join the WAC for all other sports, and part of the plan was to lure UNLV and SDSU to move back to the WAC as well. The MWC blew up the plan by getting Nevada and Fresno State to leave the WAC for the MWC. (BYU didn't get burned, they left the MWC anyway, as we know.)

November 2010 -- TCU accepts invitation from Big East. (Of course TCU ended up moving to the Big 12 and not the Big East.)

December 2010 -- Hawai'i accepts football-only invitation from MWC.

December 2011 -- Boise State and SDSU announce they will join Big "East". That leaves the MWC with 7 full members, 8 for football.

May 2012 -- SJSU and Utah State accept invitations from MWC.

December 2012 -- Boise State tells the Big East to forget it and remains in the MWC.

January 2013 -- SDSU finally decides to remain in the MWC.

The MWC invited Boise when Utah left. They invited Nevada and Fresno to blow up Benson's scheme to raid the MWC. They invited Hawai'i to get a 10th football team after TCU left. They invited SJSU and USU because they were down to 7 full members after Boise and SDSU announced they were leaving. I suppose we could second guess choosing SJSU instead of UTEP, but I don't see what's wrong with any of the other moves.

If you believe message board rumors, the only reason why SJSU is in the MWC is because UTEP said no. The thing is had UTEP said yes, what would’ve happen to SJSU? Had they gone Indy like BYU? To the Sun Belt with NMSU and Idaho? Dropped to FCS before Idaho did?

I suspect there’s some degree of civility amongst the Cal State schools that wouldn’t have left SJSU die on the vine the same way NMSU is by UNM, but I thought UTEP was after SJSU was in and when Boise and SDSU were in the Big East arrangement. Back when that CUSA merger thing had legs.

I thought opening the doors for pretty much all of the remaining WAC was a mistake (they should have went back in to Texas first for UTEP and Rice back then, maybe try for La Tech even), and just don’t believe that WAC could have scalped the MWC enough for it to be a better conference than MWC if certain MWC schools were not going to rejoin BYU. This while Boise was still out there in BEF no less?

(02-09-2019 07:51 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 04:05 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 03:44 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Mountain West grew too quickly when Utah left.

No, they didn't. Here's what happened:

June 2010 -- Utah accepts invitation from Pac-10. Boise State accepts invitation from MWC.

August 2010 -- BYU agrees to Karl Benson's idiotic scheme that ended up destroying the WAC. The plan was to have BYU leave the MWC, become indy in FB, and join the WAC for all other sports, and part of the plan was to lure UNLV and SDSU to move back to the WAC as well. The MWC blew up the plan by getting Nevada and Fresno State to leave the WAC for the MWC. (BYU didn't get burned, they left the MWC anyway, as we know.)

November 2010 -- TCU accepts invitation from Big East. (Of course TCU ended up moving to the Big 12 and not the Big East.)

December 2010 -- Hawai'i accepts football-only invitation from MWC.

December 2011 -- Boise State and SDSU announce they will join Big "East". That leaves the MWC with 7 full members, 8 for football.

May 2012 -- SJSU and Utah State accept invitations from MWC.

December 2012 -- Boise State tells the Big East to forget it and remains in the MWC.

January 2013 -- SDSU finally decides to remain in the MWC.

The MWC invited Boise when Utah left. They invited Nevada and Fresno to blow up Benson's scheme to raid the MWC. They invited Hawai'i to get a 10th football team after TCU left. They invited SJSU and USU because they were down to 7 full members after Boise and SDSU announced they were leaving. I suppose we could second guess choosing SJSU instead of UTEP, but I don't see what's wrong with any of the other moves.

If you believe message board rumors, the only reason why SJSU is in the MWC is because UTEP said no. The thing is had UTEP said yes, what would’ve happen to SJSU? Had they gone Indy like BYU? To the Sun Belt with NMSU and Idaho? Dropped to FCS before Idaho did?

I suspect there’s some degree of civility amongst the Cal State schools that wouldn’t have left SJSU die on the vine the same way NMSU is by UNM, but I thought UTEP was after SJSU was in and when Boise and SDSU were in the Big East arrangement. Back when that CUSA merger thing had legs.

I thought opening the doors for pretty much all of the remaining WAC was a mistake (they should have went back in to Texas first for UTEP and Rice back then, maybe try for La Tech even), and just don’t believe that WAC could have scalped the MWC enough for it to be a better conference than MWC if certain MWC schools were not going to rejoin BYU. This while Boise was still out there in BEF no less?

UTEP would have joined, but doubt Rice and La Tech came along. La Tech left the WAC to go to C-USA because of the travel.

(02-09-2019 03:44 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Mountain West grew too quickly when Utah left.

No, they didn't. Here's what happened:

June 2010 -- Utah accepts invitation from Pac-10. Boise State accepts invitation from MWC.

August 2010 -- BYU agrees to Karl Benson's idiotic scheme that ended up destroying the WAC. The plan was to have BYU leave the MWC, become indy in FB, and join the WAC for all other sports, and part of the plan was to lure UNLV and SDSU to move back to the WAC as well. The MWC blew up the plan by getting Nevada and Fresno State to leave the WAC for the MWC. (BYU didn't get burned, they left the MWC anyway, as we know.)

November 2010 -- TCU accepts invitation from Big East. (Of course TCU ended up moving to the Big 12 and not the Big East.)

December 2010 -- Hawai'i accepts football-only invitation from MWC.

December 2011 -- Boise State and SDSU announce they will join Big "East". That leaves the MWC with 7 full members, 8 for football.

May 2012 -- SJSU and Utah State accept invitations from MWC.

December 2012 -- Boise State tells the Big East to forget it and remains in the MWC.

January 2013 -- SDSU finally decides to remain in the MWC.

The MWC invited Boise when Utah left. They invited Nevada and Fresno to blow up Benson's scheme to raid the MWC. They invited Hawai'i to get a 10th football team after TCU left. They invited SJSU and USU because they were down to 7 full members after Boise and SDSU announced they were leaving. I suppose we could second guess choosing SJSU instead of UTEP, but I don't see what's wrong with any of the other moves.

How hindsight is 20/20

(02-09-2019 01:18 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Mountain West grew too quickly when Utah left. Instead of inviting everyone and their mother they should have circled the wagons and stayed small with high quality, flagship schools. The MWC was successful in the first place because they took the best of the WAC.

BYU will never share a conference with Utah State. Would Utah? No, so neither will BYU.

I think they’re going to be fine as an independent. They have some good schedules up ahead, and there are now more independents to schedule than there have been for the last ten or so years.

The problem with that is, the WAC “project” would have prevented that. BYU was going to put their olympics in the WAC. Fresno and Nevada would not have left and it’s possible Boise would have come back to the WAC. The MWC would be dead right now. Inviting all those WAC schools saved their ass.

The project was DOA. MWC wanted to poison it and invited USU but the Aggies turned it down (they were getting BYU in all sports but football and they already play in football) but Nevada and Fresno broke ranks. Fresno and Nevada defected KNOWING BYU had a handshake deal to join the WAC in Olympics and play a limited football schedule.

Meanwhile in basketball, the restocked WAC is higher in the RPI than the Mountain West lol. Without one team, Nevada, it would be even more dramatic. At least WAC current lineup is mostly in the upswing, and not just running in place. [/u]

(02-10-2019 05:00 AM)Todor Wrote:  Meanwhile in basketball, the restocked WAC is higher in the RPI than the Mountain West lol. Without one team, Nevada, it would be even more dramatic. At least WAC current lineup is mostly in the upswing, and not just running in place. [/u]

I figure the WAC will be a decent basketball conference with NMSU, GCU, UVU being above average pretty much every season, along with Seattle who seems decently invested in basketball.

(02-09-2019 08:30 PM)whittx Wrote:  UTEP would have joined, but doubt Rice and La Tech came along. La Tech left the WAC to go to C-USA because of the travel.

From how it was presented at the time, La Tech didn't want to be in the Sun Belt, but had a Tulane problem blocking entry into CUSA. WAC, at least what it was then pre-raid, was probably at or slightly better than CUSA's level (if just because Boise and Hawaii made it to BCS bowls and the WAC could sneak multiple bids when only Memphis could punch tickets in CUSA). MWC gets sacked, WAC gets gutted, and CUSA takes some hits, too.

But, after everything settled, and Boise and SDSU come back...is La Tech one to walk that one back, if, say, there's a spot out there?

Don't get me wrong, at the time, La Tech to CUSA was such an easy move for folks, and I think CUSA is stocked with very similar schools (minus the F*Us, and we're still waiting on Charlotte), and La Tech looks just as commonplace among that crew (with UTEP), but back at that time, they could have been on a higher trajectory.

Rice? Yeah, they'd bolt. They're more like the Mountain West schools than what became of CUSA, especially after the remaining SWC members left with Tulane and Tulsa. They tend to associate more with western schools than eastern ones, being part of that mega WAC, then staying in a more western-heavy CUSA, then tossing their hats into the ring for both the Big XII and MWC.

(02-10-2019 06:34 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(02-10-2019 05:00 AM)Todor Wrote:  Meanwhile in basketball, the restocked WAC is higher in the RPI than the Mountain West lol. Without one team, Nevada, it would be even more dramatic. At least WAC current lineup is mostly in the upswing, and not just running in place. [/u]

I figure the WAC will be a decent basketball conference with NMSU, GCU, UVU being above average pretty much every season, along with Seattle who seems decently invested in basketball.

Seattle might have to remain committed at that kind of level and decency since Gonzaga (and maybe others) want no part of a sequel in the WCC, which Seattle desperately wants.

It's not a bad problem to have in the WAC. We know NMSU is usually good for hoops, and some of these others are trying very hard so they can go elsewhere someday, too.

(02-09-2019 04:05 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 03:44 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Mountain West grew too quickly when Utah left.

No, they didn't. Here's what happened:

June 2010 -- Utah accepts invitation from Pac-10. Boise State accepts invitation from MWC.

August 2010 -- BYU agrees to Karl Benson's idiotic scheme that ended up destroying the WAC. The plan was to have BYU leave the MWC, become indy in FB, and join the WAC for all other sports, and part of the plan was to lure UNLV and SDSU to move back to the WAC as well. The MWC blew up the plan by getting Nevada and Fresno State to leave the WAC for the MWC. (BYU didn't get burned, they left the MWC anyway, as we know.)

November 2010 -- TCU accepts invitation from Big East. (Of course TCU ended up moving to the Big 12 and not the Big East.)

December 2010 -- Hawai'i accepts football-only invitation from MWC.

December 2011 -- Boise State and SDSU announce they will join Big "East". That leaves the MWC with 7 full members, 8 for football.

May 2012 -- SJSU and Utah State accept invitations from MWC.

December 2012 -- Boise State tells the Big East to forget it and remains in the MWC.

January 2013 -- SDSU finally decides to remain in the MWC.

The MWC invited Boise when Utah left. They invited Nevada and Fresno to blow up Benson's scheme to raid the MWC. They invited Hawai'i to get a 10th football team after TCU left. They invited SJSU and USU because they were down to 7 full members after Boise and SDSU announced they were leaving. I suppose we could second guess choosing SJSU instead of UTEP, but I don't see what's wrong with any of the other moves.

If you believe message board rumors, the only reason why SJSU is in the MWC is because UTEP said no. The thing is had UTEP said yes, what would’ve happen to SJSU? Had they gone Indy like BYU? To the Sun Belt with NMSU and Idaho? Dropped to FCS before Idaho did?

That is not accurate. UTEP would have never turned down the MWC and the MWC did not invite UTEP. There was a lot of things going on back then. There was talk of a merger between CUSA and the MWC. TCU was leaving the MWC and headed to the Big 12. Boise State and San Diego State were headed to the Big East. UTSA was talking to CUSA and supposedly had their pick of CUSA, the MWC and the Sun Belt.

UTSA accepted an invite to CUSA in late April of 2012. A few days later, both Utah State and SJSU were invited to the MWC. Had UTSA decided to join the MWC, then pairing them with UTEP might have made sense. Either way, SJSU was joining the MWC. They are in the #6 TV market in the country and schools like Boise State love to recruit California. SJSU was 11-2 in 2012 and finished as the #21 ranked team in the country, so it was the right choice for the MWC.

I like El Paso and I have spent a lot of time down there over the years, but it is not the same as being in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio or Austin. The MWC wanted to stay in Texas, but I don't think UTEP was the school to replace TCU.

(02-09-2019 11:30 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 11:10 AM)f1do Wrote:  https://www.heraldextra.com/sports/colle...ab607.html

Quote:With regards to the television deal, Holmoe simply said that he was “in discussions right now,” but frequently referred to the partnership with the sports media giant when he talked about bowl bids and game start times.

“We played Saint Mary’s (in men’s basketball) last week on ESPN2 at 9 p.m.,” Holmoe said. “I had to take a nap at 6 p.m. to make it, but after the game I had friends that I had made from being on the basketball committee and from around the country texting me, congratulating us on the win. If we are not on ESPN or ESPN2, they aren’t going to see that.”

BYU is going into their final year of the TV deal they signed when the first went independent in football for the 2011 season. The 2019 deal includes a bowl game tie in to the Hawaii Bowl if BYU is bowl eligible after being an at large bid the previous two seasons.

ESPN picked up the contract option year for 2019 so it is believed they viewed that as cheaper than if they declined and renegotiated a year earlier. No breaking news yet but it will be interesting to see what the deal ends up looking like.

Personally, I feel like BYU needs a conference. Not just any conference, but one that can match both football and basketball against consistently good competition. I think there will be an opportunity for that should the major powers of the Big 12 leave in the next several years.

A rebuilt Big 12, perhaps with a few schools from multiple regions and partial members in certain sports, could be a strong and stable economic engine.

BYU is not in any danger of fading too quickly, but their independence could end up being an Achilles heel should their product slip on a consistent basis. That means their TV value would slip and ESPN would be less inclined to give a strong contract. At that point, it begins to be a cycle and getting into a decent conference becomes even harder.

West XIV- KSU, ISU, BYU, CSU, TCU, Houston, Baylor

East XIV- WVU, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, Navy/Wichita, Temple

You people are nuts. Comparing a single independands contract negitiations and their value to that of an entire legue of similar quality schools. There is no comparison. Now if by chance the schools resided in a similar location and had the same proto-tipicle fans and similar scheduling requirements, then you'd be close. As is you're absolutely comparing apples with oranges.

(02-09-2019 01:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  BYU will never share a conference with Utah State. Would Utah? No, so neither will BYU.

They all shared the Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference from 1922 to 1937. Conference Titles:
Utah 8, USU 2, BYU 0.
They shared the skyline conference from 1938-61. Conference titles:
Utah 10, USU 3, BYU 0.
Since going independent BYU’s Head-to-Head record (streak):
VS Utah: 0-7 (L8)
VS Utah State: 5-3 (L2)
Ranked seasons: Utah 3, USU 2, BYU 0.

The trajectory is in place to return back to the pre-Lavell status quo.

(02-09-2019 02:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-09-2019 02:11 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Rumor is BYU is getting paid $8 million a year. Is it true?

Before anybody start with realignment scenarios for BYU, it all starts and ends with Utah. Unless they get a Big XII invitation (in its current form), BYU won’t join a conference while Utah enjoys the benefits of being in a P5 league. They’d rather stay independent and play multiple P5 rather than playing a MWC or AAC schedule.

It changes. What people have been able to piece together is that they are paid more for appearances on certain networks. If they are on ESPN or ABC---they earn more than being on ESPN2 or ESPNU. Based on the numbers, 8 sounds a little high and would be a figure they might approach in a best case scenario where all their games are on ESPN and ABC. My guess is 4-6 million a year is more where they typically live under this deal.

BYU gets between 800K and $1.2M per game, depending on which channels BYU's home games are broadcast. BYU reserves the right to one annual BYUtv game, which gets nothing from ESPN (BYUtv revenue to BYU athletic department is not disclosed...but I would be surprised if it's anything).

The 2016 season included 2 ESPN games, 1 ESPN2, and 1 ESPNU game. BYU broadcasted both the Southern Utah and UMass home games on BYUtv (so that they could have afternoon kickoffs in cold November weather against weaker opponents). If you assign $1.2M to the ESPN games, $1M to the ESPN2 game and $800K to the ESPNU game, the total is $4.4M...about what the F1do's referenced article calculated.

Last year included 4 ESPN2 and 1 ESPNU broadcasts. So, the 2018 ESPN payout was likely around $4.8M.

The 2019 schedule includes Utah, USC, Washington, and Boise State, plus Liberty (and Idaho St. for BYUtvu) which will likely net BYU between $5 and 6 million (assuming the four good games get at least ESPN2 coverage, and at least one game gets ESPN coverage).

Based on their future schedules 2024 would be the soonest that BYU could join a G5, but it would have to be the MWC and 4 MWC schools would have to agree to convert the OOC games with the Cougars on the schedule for conference games. The soonest they could join the AAC is 2025.

Do I think they will? No, probably not. But if they are getting 3-4 P5s at home a year then they need to up the cash.

I suspect there is no interest on either side of the MWC and BYU to work together as one again. At least, not until some of the current folks in charge at the schools or conference are gone. The best we'll get is some cooling on the one-and-one front with some of the front rangers.

How both sides acted after Utah and TCU bolted were unfortunate and signaled some deep resentment toward the other.

I do think there is a BIG problem on BYU's end if Gonzaga revisits leaving the WCC. Yet, I doubt it means a reconciliation between BYU and the MWC.

The crazy thing would be...would NMSU have more support for MWC entry or BYU?

(02-11-2019 12:37 PM)YNot Wrote:  BYU gets between 800K and $1.2M per game, depending on which channels BYU's home games are broadcast.

Using that scale, and adding a $1.5M level for ABC games and $500K level for ESPNews/CBSSN, here's how much the American would have made for their football in 2018:

7 ABC = $10.5M
8 ESPN = $9.6M
5 ESPN2 = $5M
17 ESPNU = $13.6M
13 CBSSN = $6.5M
6 ESNews = $3M

Total: $47.7M which does not include Navy inventory.

So maybe $50M for football with Navy and additional $20M for hoops, etc. (since football is about 70% of most conference contract values).

$70M = about $6M per school.

Like I said a thousand times before, I am sticking to my $5-8M per year per school estimate.

(02-10-2019 02:48 PM)Mestophalies Wrote:  You people are nuts. Comparing a single independands contract negitiations and their value to that of an entire legue of similar quality schools. There is no comparison. Now if by chance the schools resided in a similar location and had the same proto-tipicle fans and similar scheduling requirements, then you'd be close. As is you're absolutely comparing apples with oranges.

Up is up and down is down. You can look at BYU's ratings and compare them to Houston's or Memphis' or USF's. It's not exact, but its not nothin'

(02-12-2019 03:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-10-2019 02:48 PM)Mestophalies Wrote:  You people are nuts. Comparing a single independands contract negitiations and their value to that of an entire legue of similar quality schools. There is no comparison. Now if by chance the schools resided in a similar location and had the same proto-tipicle fans and similar scheduling requirements, then you'd be close. As is you're absolutely comparing apples with oranges.

Up is up and down is down. You can look at BYU's ratings and compare them to Houston's or Memphis' or USF's. It's not exact, but its not nothin'

You're right, it's not nothing. It's next to nothing.