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Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
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seaking4steel Online
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Post: #41
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 04:48 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 11:00 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 10:48 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Well, people keep forgetting that their are FCS schools in the area that could help boast men's basketball and.football.

Missouri State, Jacksonville State, Chattanooga, East Tennessee State, Northern Iowa, UCA, Sam Houston State, SFAU, James Madison, Murray State, Kennesaw State, Stony Brook and some others. Adding any of them could boast product for tv on how they played on the court and football fields. Streaming online would also add more money.

And while they're at it the Sun Belt could also add Lenoir Rhyne, Johnson C. Smith, Lees-McRae, Tusculum, Valdosta State, Albany State, Savannah State, West Alabama, Florida Tech, and West Florida. D2 and NAIA schools need some love too.
Where’s Montevallo, AUM, and UAH??

All three are definitely on Conference USA's radar. UAB needs a travel partner.
02-09-2019 08:09 PM
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seaking4steel Online
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Post: #42
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 04:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  <——not DavidSt. Montevallo is my alma mater and West Alabama is one of our biggest rivals. AUM & UAH are rivals also.

I find it odd that Livingston changed their name to West Alabama to sound less like a private school yet Montevallo didn't follow suit.
02-09-2019 08:12 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 11:30 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 11:16 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There are always 2 things that are major obstacles to push any "alliance or reorganization" forward.
1. UTA
2. UALR

Any thread about a big reorganization always focuses on football but don't take in the fact there are 2 non-fb schools in the Sunbelt.

If anything, Texas St is really the only school in the Sunbelt that would like to be in CUSA. But not sure if any CUSA member would want to replace Texas St. ODU writers tend to complain a lot so maybe they would.

I would argue that they aren't alone. ULL and Ark St would prefer C-USA West to SBC West.

The path to overcoming the UTA and UALR issue is that after you agree in principle to the reorganization with C-USA the SBC calls a vote that either expels them outright or requires them to play FBS football. Once they are out of the picture C-USA invites the schools that are shifting to their banner and the SBC invites the schools that will be under theirs. Problem solved.

No. Arkansas State would not prefer CUSA West.
AState recruits Alabama and Georgia more heavily than Texas. Atlanta is only 14 miles further from Jonesboro than Dallas. Fort Worth, San Antonio and Houston are all further than Atlanta.
App State is a shorter drive than UTSA (and division mate Texas State). AState's longest drive in the Sun Belt is Coastal Carolina and that's 200 miles shorter than going to UTEP.

Stadium to Stadium MTSU is the closest CUSA school to AState, followed by La.Tech which is only 14 miles closer than UAB.

Just for perspective. AState to Marshall is 16 miles closer than AState to Rice and 168 miles closer than UTSA.

We would love to play the other FBS school with a stadium on US 49 (Southern Miss) every year. Some of the older fans would like to resume the series with La.Tech but the reality is most of our season ticket holders have seen AState and La.Tech play one time but we aren't Texas oriented. Unlike Central Arkansas and western Arkansas the local economy doesn't tie in to Texas very much. The Northeast Arkansas economy is much more locked into shipping goods out via Memphis or commodities going out the White River or the Mississippi River from various ports in Arkansas.

I'd happily swap Texas State to CUSA for their pick of USM, UAB, Marshall, or even ODU or Charlotte since the latter three would push Troy to our division.
02-10-2019 12:18 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 08:12 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 04:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  <——not DavidSt. Montevallo is my alma mater and West Alabama is one of our biggest rivals. AUM & UAH are rivals also.

I find it odd that Livingston changed their name to West Alabama to sound less like a private school yet Montevallo didn't follow suit.

Montavello isn't private. Learn something new every day.

One of our former hoops coaches used to schedule them a lot. Sometimes as regular season filler and sometimes as an exhibition. Always wondered the connection but that was before you could find everything on the web.
02-10-2019 12:23 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 11:16 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  There are always 2 things that are major obstacles to push any "alliance or reorganization" forward.
1. UTA
2. UALR

Any thread about a big reorganization always focuses on football but don't take in the fact there are 2 non-fb schools in the Sunbelt.

If anything, Texas St is really the only school in the Sunbelt that would like to be in CUSA. But not sure if any CUSA member would want to replace Texas St. ODU writers tend to complain a lot so maybe they would.

No. The primary obstacles are:
ULM and La.Tech
Texas State because its unlikely any CUSA Texas school affiliates with them even if they will play some in non-conference.
I suspect UAB feels similarly about Troy and USA with USA probably more palatable since they are further away and have a med school.
02-10-2019 12:26 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 05:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 04:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 04:50 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 04:48 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 11:00 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  And while they're at it the Sun Belt could also add Lenoir Rhyne, Johnson C. Smith, Lees-McRae, Tusculum, Valdosta State, Albany State, Savannah State, West Alabama, Florida Tech, and West Florida. D2 and NAIA schools need some love too.
Where’s Montevallo, AUM, and UAH??

I give credit to DavidSt. I learn about schools that I’ve never heard before.

<——not DavidSt. Montevallo is my alma mater and West Alabama is one of our biggest rivals. AUM & UAH are rivals also.

I don’t want to offend you because it’s not my intention but this is the first time I hear about Montevallo. I heard of Huntsville but not of AUM.

Go to http://www.gscsports.org. You will see Montevallo, West Alabama, UAH, and AUM (Auburn U @ Montgomery). Montevallo is a public school near Birmingham that is like how UNCC used to be-no football. Our basketball teams could use some work, but we usually have very strong baseball teams. One of the Texas Rangers big stars is one of our alumni. Ask North Alabama fans about us. They know who we are, because they are a big rival we have or used to have. I don’t know if they will play us or not anymore in any sport considering that they are now D1 and we are D2. But we still have other rivals, although we will miss North Alabama.
02-10-2019 12:49 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 06:36 PM)debragga Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 03:23 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  This SBC/CUSA topic seems to appear a few times a year. The basic advantage is lower traveling costs and creating regional rivalries for both conferences. The Sports Business Journal published an article about the subject a few years ago. It is called "A common-sense solution for conference realignment." The article includes NMSU and Idaho right before they left the SBC.

[Image: pg-26-InDepth-Current-alignment.ashx?la=...A7A6A65F62]

[Image: pg-27-InDepth-Realignment1.ashx?la=en&am...712B15DB3D]

Even split map.

[Image: EOVNnmX.jpg]

Take out JMU, move StAte to the eastern conference, and put ULM in the west and it looks good. We’re not going anywhere no matter how much certain people seem to want us to.

La. Tech will block La.-Monroe from joining. Missouri State have better men's basketball.
02-10-2019 02:23 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
Schools that would not be in the C-USA/SBC realignment.

New Mexico State
La.-Monroe
Liberty
Army
UMass.

Maybe?
Troy
Texas State

James Madison and Missouri State are important. If you want conference tv contract? You do need new markets with good teams. Missouri State does give you men's basketball which would help overall tv package. Murray State, Mercer, Kennesaw State, Chattanooga and East Tennessee State do have pretty good other sports besides football. Richmond could get you both football and men's basketball, but the leaders care more about basketball, and not football. Cut the trim by removing schools not doing overall performance which means. La.-Monroe and Texas State.
02-10-2019 03:22 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
Please, end the lunacy.
02-10-2019 03:41 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-10-2019 02:23 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 06:36 PM)debragga Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 03:23 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  This SBC/CUSA topic seems to appear a few times a year. The basic advantage is lower traveling costs and creating regional rivalries for both conferences. The Sports Business Journal published an article about the subject a few years ago. It is called "A common-sense solution for conference realignment." The article includes NMSU and Idaho right before they left the SBC.

[Image: pg-26-InDepth-Current-alignment.ashx?la=...A7A6A65F62]

[Image: pg-27-InDepth-Realignment1.ashx?la=en&am...712B15DB3D]

Even split map.

[Image: EOVNnmX.jpg]

Take out JMU, move StAte to the eastern conference, and put ULM in the west and it looks good. We’re not going anywhere no matter how much certain people seem to want us to.

La. Tech will block La.-Monroe from joining. Missouri State have better men's basketball.


LA Tech doesn't want to be in the same division as the other LA universities...LA Tech can be is the west with the TX universities and stAte can be in the east division with LA-Monroe & LA-Lafayette...
02-10-2019 11:56 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-10-2019 11:56 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 02:23 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 06:36 PM)debragga Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 03:23 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  This SBC/CUSA topic seems to appear a few times a year. The basic advantage is lower traveling costs and creating regional rivalries for both conferences. The Sports Business Journal published an article about the subject a few years ago. It is called "A common-sense solution for conference realignment." The article includes NMSU and Idaho right before they left the SBC.

[Image: pg-26-InDepth-Current-alignment.ashx?la=...A7A6A65F62]

[Image: pg-27-InDepth-Realignment1.ashx?la=en&am...712B15DB3D]

Even split map.

[Image: EOVNnmX.jpg]

Take out JMU, move StAte to the eastern conference, and put ULM in the west and it looks good. We’re not going anywhere no matter how much certain people seem to want us to.

La. Tech will block La.-Monroe from joining. Missouri State have better men's basketball.


LA Tech doesn't want to be in the same division as the other LA universities...LA Tech can be is the west with the TX universities and stAte can be in the east division with LA-Monroe & LA-Lafayette...


You guys do not understand the politics in why some of the schools are not wanted in the first place. Some of the rejects like Texas State, La.-Monroe, Coastal Carolina are not wanted.

Texas State overlaps UTSA in the San Antonio market.
La.-Monroe crowds into La. Tech's turf.
Coastal Carolina came out of one of the bottom feeder conferences of the Big South.
New Mexico State is not wanted because they are on UTEP's turf.
Liberty is not wanted because of their hard core Religious beliefs that are much more worst than BYU.

There are better FCS schools that are wanted more than them.
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
James Madison
Stony Brook
Illinois State
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
Albany
Towson
Montana
Montana State

You get my drift?
02-11-2019 04:36 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-10-2019 11:56 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 02:23 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 06:36 PM)debragga Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 03:23 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  This SBC/CUSA topic seems to appear a few times a year. The basic advantage is lower traveling costs and creating regional rivalries for both conferences. The Sports Business Journal published an article about the subject a few years ago. It is called "A common-sense solution for conference realignment." The article includes NMSU and Idaho right before they left the SBC.

[Image: pg-26-InDepth-Current-alignment.ashx?la=...A7A6A65F62]

[Image: pg-27-InDepth-Realignment1.ashx?la=en&am...712B15DB3D]

Even split map.

[Image: EOVNnmX.jpg]

Take out JMU, move StAte to the eastern conference, and put ULM in the west and it looks good. We’re not going anywhere no matter how much certain people seem to want us to.

La. Tech will block La.-Monroe from joining. Missouri State have better men's basketball.


LA Tech doesn't want to be in the same division as the other LA universities...LA Tech can be is the west with the TX universities and stAte can be in the east division with LA-Monroe & LA-Lafayette...

Why not go further and just do 3 conferences of 8?

Southwest: UTEP, UTSA, Texas St, North Texas, Rice, Arkansas St, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe
CUSA: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky, Marshall, Old Dominion, Charlotte
Sun Belt: Troy, South Alabama, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, Appalachian St, Coastal Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Florida International

7 conference games. 1 power conference game. 1 game versus either American or Mountain West school. Then schedule each other and the MAC. No FCS games.
02-11-2019 07:44 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 03:03 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
Quote:“League One”:
UAB, Southern Miss, MTSU, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Rice, Arkansas State, App State, Troy


I just don't see the point in that conference. Travel isn't reduced and the undefeated champ would still not be in the access bowl over an undefeated AAC team.

The whole point of realigning SBC/CUSA is to reduce travel costs and build up rivalries. App and Troy would lose their biggest rivals and no travel costs would be cut.

I don't think the trade looks good for the western schools. Say CUSA sends WKU, MTSU, Marshall, ODU, UNCC, FAU and FIU to the Sun Belt in return for the westernmost 7-Texas ST., ARkansas, ST. Louisiana, ULM, USA, UALR and UTA. It reduces travel, but trades some strong football schools for a couple of basketball schools and a couple of the weaker football schools.
02-11-2019 09:45 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
You'll have a tough time convincing Troy, Arkansas State, App State, Georgia Southern, and even Georgia State that they're better off apart than together. There needs to be a clear step up in regards to money and exposure to make that happen. Like it's been said before in this thread, most of the Sun Belt schools are very comfortable with the league set up right now: 2 in Texas, 2 in Arkansas, 2 in Louisiana, 2 in Alabama, 2 in Georgia, and 2 in the Carolinas.
02-11-2019 10:03 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-11-2019 04:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 11:56 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 02:23 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 06:36 PM)debragga Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 03:23 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  This SBC/CUSA topic seems to appear a few times a year. The basic advantage is lower traveling costs and creating regional rivalries for both conferences. The Sports Business Journal published an article about the subject a few years ago. It is called "A common-sense solution for conference realignment." The article includes NMSU and Idaho right before they left the SBC.

[Image: pg-26-InDepth-Current-alignment.ashx?la=...A7A6A65F62]

[Image: pg-27-InDepth-Realignment1.ashx?la=en&am...712B15DB3D]

Even split map.

[Image: EOVNnmX.jpg]

Take out JMU, move StAte to the eastern conference, and put ULM in the west and it looks good. We’re not going anywhere no matter how much certain people seem to want us to.

La. Tech will block La.-Monroe from joining. Missouri State have better men's basketball.


LA Tech doesn't want to be in the same division as the other LA universities...LA Tech can be is the west with the TX universities and stAte can be in the east division with LA-Monroe & LA-Lafayette...


You guys do not understand the politics in why some of the schools are not wanted in the first place. Some of the rejects like Texas State, La.-Monroe, Coastal Carolina are not wanted.

Texas State overlaps UTSA in the San Antonio market.
La.-Monroe crowds into La. Tech's turf.
Coastal Carolina came out of one of the bottom feeder conferences of the Big South.
New Mexico State is not wanted because they are on UTEP's turf.
Liberty is not wanted because of their hard core Religious beliefs that are much more worst than BYU.

There are better FCS schools that are wanted more than them.
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
James Madison
Stony Brook
Illinois State
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
Albany
Towson
Montana
Montana State

You get my drift?

RE Texas State: It's close, but TX St. is actually in the Austin Market. If it was in New Braunfels instead of San Marcos it would be in the SA market. Coastal might have come out of the Big South but they had become national contenders in FCS, built a new arena on campus, and is in a fast growing market (Myrtle Beach). Agree on the rest.
02-11-2019 11:04 AM
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CAJUNNATION Online
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Post: #56
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-10-2019 12:18 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  ...No. Arkansas State would not prefer CUSA West.
AState recruits Alabama and Georgia more heavily than Texas....

I understand your points. Recruiting is everything.

CUSA West may not be the best place for stAte, but being in the EASTERN Division of a SW league that includes USM and at least 1 Alabama school just might be where you and I end up.
02-11-2019 11:13 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-11-2019 11:13 AM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 12:18 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  ...No. Arkansas State would not prefer CUSA West.
AState recruits Alabama and Georgia more heavily than Texas....

I understand your points. Recruiting is everything.

CUSA West may not be the best place for stAte, but being in the EASTERN Division of a SW league that includes USM and at least 1 Alabama school just might be where you and I end up.

SWC

North - UNT, LA Tech, Ark State, UAB, MT, WKU
South - USM, Troy, Louisiana, Rice, Texas State, UTSA

CUSA

North - Marshall, App State, ODU, Charlotte, Coastal, Liberty
South - FIU, FAU, ULM, USA, GA State, GA Southern

UTEP and NMSU go to MWC.
02-11-2019 02:07 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
With the new CCG rules, what would stop them from doing 3 (football-only) conferences of 8, each split into 2 divisions. Teams could essentially prioritize playing whoever they want (rivalries by region, culture, football prowess, etc.) and only "have to" play the 3 teams in their division.

Seems like there is no downside, though of course I'm probably missing something.
02-11-2019 02:39 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-11-2019 10:03 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  You'll have a tough time convincing Troy, Arkansas State, App State, Georgia Southern, and even Georgia State that they're better off apart than together. There needs to be a clear step up in regards to money and exposure to make that happen. Like it's been said before in this thread, most of the Sun Belt schools are very comfortable with the league set up right now: 2 in Texas, 2 in Arkansas, 2 in Louisiana, 2 in Alabama, 2 in Georgia, and 2 in the Carolinas.

Also, the number of football playing schools is minimized in the Sun Belt which maximizes the payout per school. Since a fair merger of CUSA and the SBC would yield two 12-football-team conferences, every single Sun Belt football school would receive less money in the new conference than they do in the current Sun Belt while the CUSA schools would benefit from splitting their pie 12 ways instead of 14.

The only reason I could see any Sun Belt school agreeing to join a new conference at this point is if it was the AAC or some newly invented conference that guaranteed a higher payout and better exposure. As it stands, Sun Belt schools have nothing to gain from ditching their partners in the opposite division to realign with nearby CUSA schools. Especially in the Eastern conference that stretches from Miami to Huntington, WV, the cost-savings from travel would be negligible at best for Sun Belt schools but greatly help the CUSA schools. I would assume it would probably be the same for a Western conference from Kentucky to El Paso.
02-11-2019 02:46 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-11-2019 02:39 PM)Crayton Wrote:  With the new CCG rules, what would stop them from doing 3 (football-only) conferences of 8, each split into 2 divisions. Teams could essentially prioritize playing whoever they want (rivalries by region, culture, football prowess, etc.) and only "have to" play the 3 teams in their division.

Seems like there is no downside, though of course I'm probably missing something.

If I'm understanding correctly, there's no guarantee that the third newly created conference would be welcomed into the CFP and therefore not receive a seasonal payout or receive autobids to the NCAA tournaments.
02-11-2019 02:49 PM
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