Intellectual_Brutality
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-09-2019 08:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-08-2019 10:18 PM)Antarius Wrote: These are the same type of people who object to the color gray because something something confederacy racism.
"The same type of people"?
What is exactly the problem here? Yearbooks from the 20th century have hit the news cycle hard over the past week. In light of this, a review of his or her university's archived yearbooks doesn't seem that crazy.
I'm dismayed that nearly 100% of the outrage in this thread is directed towards "woke" people rather than the disgusting images that found their way to the light.
Some of us are dismayed that people in the Rice forum are making fun on being "woke" and of "social justice," as if there are somehow pejoratives (???), but we (generally) stay quiet about it
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02-10-2019 04:23 PM |
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Rice93
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-10-2019 04:23 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote: (02-09-2019 08:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-08-2019 10:18 PM)Antarius Wrote: These are the same type of people who object to the color gray because something something confederacy racism.
"The same type of people"?
What is exactly the problem here? Yearbooks from the 20th century have hit the news cycle hard over the past week. In light of this, a review of his or her university's archived yearbooks doesn't seem that crazy.
I'm dismayed that nearly 100% of the outrage in this thread is directed towards "woke" people rather than the disgusting images that found their way to the light.
Some of us are dismayed that people in the Rice forum are making fun on being "woke" and of "social justice," as if there are somehow pejoratives (???), but we (generally) stay quiet about it
Agree. I think we are saying the same thing?
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02-10-2019 04:36 PM |
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Intellectual_Brutality
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-10-2019 04:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-10-2019 04:23 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote: (02-09-2019 08:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-08-2019 10:18 PM)Antarius Wrote: These are the same type of people who object to the color gray because something something confederacy racism.
"The same type of people"?
What is exactly the problem here? Yearbooks from the 20th century have hit the news cycle hard over the past week. In light of this, a review of his or her university's archived yearbooks doesn't seem that crazy.
I'm dismayed that nearly 100% of the outrage in this thread is directed towards "woke" people rather than the disgusting images that found their way to the light.
Some of us are dismayed that people in the Rice forum are making fun on being "woke" and of "social justice," as if there are somehow pejoratives (???), but we (generally) stay quiet about it
Agree. I think we are saying the same thing?
Yup. Just wanted to say you're not alone. I'm often embarrassed by the folks here when the topic gets into politics.
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02-10-2019 04:54 PM |
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Rice93
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-10-2019 04:54 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote: (02-10-2019 04:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-10-2019 04:23 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote: (02-09-2019 08:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-08-2019 10:18 PM)Antarius Wrote: These are the same type of people who object to the color gray because something something confederacy racism.
"The same type of people"?
What is exactly the problem here? Yearbooks from the 20th century have hit the news cycle hard over the past week. In light of this, a review of his or her university's archived yearbooks doesn't seem that crazy.
I'm dismayed that nearly 100% of the outrage in this thread is directed towards "woke" people rather than the disgusting images that found their way to the light.
Some of us are dismayed that people in the Rice forum are making fun on being "woke" and of "social justice," as if there are somehow pejoratives (???), but we (generally) stay quiet about it
Agree. I think we are saying the same thing?
Yup. Just wanted to say you're not alone. I'm often embarrassed by the folks here when the topic gets into politics.
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02-10-2019 05:15 PM |
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Antarius
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-10-2019 04:23 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote: (02-09-2019 08:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-08-2019 10:18 PM)Antarius Wrote: These are the same type of people who object to the color gray because something something confederacy racism.
"The same type of people"?
What is exactly the problem here? Yearbooks from the 20th century have hit the news cycle hard over the past week. In light of this, a review of his or her university's archived yearbooks doesn't seem that crazy.
I'm dismayed that nearly 100% of the outrage in this thread is directed towards "woke" people rather than the disgusting images that found their way to the light.
Some of us are dismayed that people in the Rice forum are making fun on being "woke" and of "social justice," as if there are somehow pejoratives (???), but we (generally) stay quiet about it
Theres a difference between social justice and "social justice". At least from my side, my objections are towards the latter.
A lot of "social justice" is on par with Billy Lynch's pre snap "motion". Motion != action, other than feeding peoples ego.
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02-10-2019 05:43 PM |
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georgewebb
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
Intellectual_Brutality dateline=' Wrote: I’m often embarrassed by the folks here when the topic gets into politics.
So am I — as are many of us!
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02-10-2019 05:43 PM |
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seniorowl
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
I hope that the ‘embarassment’ comment is directed at both sides of the political aisle, otherwise that comment can be perceived as very condescending just because someone shares a different political view.
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02-10-2019 06:41 PM |
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seniorowl
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
Regarding this topic, the photos that have been shown in the yearbooks are downright disgusting.
That being said, I hope that these photos coming to light results in the community learning from the mistakes made in the past, resulting in a positive outcome and greater understanding and compassion for each other.
Finding these photos and then trying to figure out who these people were to shame them is not what we should aim for....
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02-10-2019 06:46 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
Keep in mind that almost all, if not all, of the photos and other racist stuff come from a period when Rice was still racially segregated. Having been there for the transition, I am quite certain that Rice is a very different place today. In terms of race relations, I'd say it is much better but still not where we can hope it will be someday. In other areas, I am not sure it's better or worse. I see some things better, but I think we've also lost some things that were valuable--including membership in the SWC.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2019 08:08 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
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02-10-2019 08:03 PM |
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ausowl
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-09-2019 11:35 PM)Antarius Wrote: Yes, and FTR, I'm not implying that these pictures should be hidden or suppressed. There is just a big difference between understanding and discussing these things with an interest to learn and sensationalist TMZ style "exposes" which appear to be aimed at moral superiority.
It would certainly be nice to see an exhibit on it at Rice with depth and discourse.
Great comment.
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02-10-2019 08:31 PM |
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Volente Beach Owl
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-09-2019 10:47 PM)Antarius Wrote: It's not about the photos being published. It's about why and how. Instead of using this as a conversation, this was posted as a galvanizing rod to get an outcry that achieves nothing more.
Tell me, what purpose does it achieve to show that people had questionable stances on race before the civil rights act was passed? Other than feeling morally superior, did anyone learn ANYTHING they didnt already know?
And by getting all disheartened and phrasing it as such.. well, thats kind of the point being made, you implied you're morally superior to us.
Agreed.... and it's usually people with guilty consciences that feel the need to virtue signal... as a way to convince themselves that they aren't racist.
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02-10-2019 09:20 PM |
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Rice93
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-10-2019 09:20 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote: (02-09-2019 10:47 PM)Antarius Wrote: It's not about the photos being published. It's about why and how. Instead of using this as a conversation, this was posted as a galvanizing rod to get an outcry that achieves nothing more.
Tell me, what purpose does it achieve to show that people had questionable stances on race before the civil rights act was passed? Other than feeling morally superior, did anyone learn ANYTHING they didnt already know?
And by getting all disheartened and phrasing it as such.. well, thats kind of the point being made, you implied you're morally superior to us.
Agreed.... and it's usually people with guilty consciences that feel the need to virtue signal... as a way to convince themselves that they aren't racist.
Trying to understand this comment. So people that speak out on social media about racial injustice are actually more likely to be racist than those that don't?
This assertion is based on what?
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02-11-2019 11:13 AM |
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Antarius
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 11:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-10-2019 09:20 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote: (02-09-2019 10:47 PM)Antarius Wrote: It's not about the photos being published. It's about why and how. Instead of using this as a conversation, this was posted as a galvanizing rod to get an outcry that achieves nothing more.
Tell me, what purpose does it achieve to show that people had questionable stances on race before the civil rights act was passed? Other than feeling morally superior, did anyone learn ANYTHING they didnt already know?
And by getting all disheartened and phrasing it as such.. well, thats kind of the point being made, you implied you're morally superior to us.
Agreed.... and it's usually people with guilty consciences that feel the need to virtue signal... as a way to convince themselves that they aren't racist.
Trying to understand this comment. So people that speak out on social media about racial injustice are actually more likely to be racist than those that don't?
This assertion is based on what?
I think what VBO is referring to are people who overcompensate (at least that was my read on it). Like the people I referred to in a previous post who tell me what a person of color should feel. To me, thats grossly overcompensating and frankly, condescending to think that their view is more enlightened than mine and they can project feelings of hurt onto people "like me". As a person of color, I don't need people telling me how I am supposed to feel.
To me, there is nothing wrong with speaking out about social justice and racial injustice. Its when dumb stuff becomes the lightning rod or the mechanism for people to act enlightened and better that I object to it. I'm sure people feel real proud about taking a hard stand and renaming college masters to magisters - a great job of mistaking motion for action; a move that is akin to celebrating unprecedented bowl wins over bottom third teams, serving a purpose of fluffing one's ego than making any meaningful impact.
People did lots of ****** up things that were legally and socially acceptable in the past. I am positive that there are things I (and all of us) do now that will be viewed with a similar lens 50 years later. It doesn't excuse or justify the behavior, but it does allow us to understand. If we forgo that understanding and simply point to everyone and everything with a pure intent to demean... well, that's how you get a polarized lockjam.
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02-11-2019 11:35 AM |
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RiceLad15
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 11:35 AM)Antarius Wrote: (02-11-2019 11:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote: (02-10-2019 09:20 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote: (02-09-2019 10:47 PM)Antarius Wrote: It's not about the photos being published. It's about why and how. Instead of using this as a conversation, this was posted as a galvanizing rod to get an outcry that achieves nothing more.
Tell me, what purpose does it achieve to show that people had questionable stances on race before the civil rights act was passed? Other than feeling morally superior, did anyone learn ANYTHING they didnt already know?
And by getting all disheartened and phrasing it as such.. well, thats kind of the point being made, you implied you're morally superior to us.
Agreed.... and it's usually people with guilty consciences that feel the need to virtue signal... as a way to convince themselves that they aren't racist.
Trying to understand this comment. So people that speak out on social media about racial injustice are actually more likely to be racist than those that don't?
This assertion is based on what?
I think what VBO is referring to are people who overcompensate (at least that was my read on it). Like the people I referred to in a previous post who tell me what a person of color should feel. To me, thats grossly overcompensating and frankly, condescending to think that their view is more enlightened than mine and they can project feelings of hurt onto people "like me". As a person of color, I don't need people telling me how I am supposed to feel.
To me, there is nothing wrong with speaking out about social justice and racial injustice. Its when dumb stuff becomes the lightning rod or the mechanism for people to act enlightened and better that I object to it. I'm sure people feel real proud about taking a hard stand and renaming college masters to magisters - a great job of mistaking motion for action; a move that is akin to celebrating unprecedented bowl wins over bottom third teams, serving a purpose of fluffing one's ego than making any meaningful impact.
People did lots of ****** up things that were legally and socially acceptable in the past. I am positive that there are things I (and all of us) do now that will be viewed with a similar lens 50 years later. It doesn't excuse or justify the behavior, but it does allow us to understand. If we forgo that understanding and simply point to everyone and everything with a pure intent to demean... well, that's how you get a polarized lockjam.
So what are your metrics for distinguishing between, for lack of a better word, legitimate and illegitimate behavior?
Going to the magister topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who were very happy with the change because they found the term College Masters to be weird and a bit uncomfortable. Were their opinions dumb? Or were their opinions OK?
I agree with a point you made earlier that there are better (and often more productive) avenues for tackling these issues. But focusing primarily on the vehicle or method of awareness, as opposed to the issue being raised or highlights, seems wildly counterproductive. And that is definitely what has occurred in this thread.
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02-11-2019 12:03 PM |
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georgewebb
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 12:03 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: Going to the magister topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who were very happy with the change because they found the term College Masters to be weird and a bit uncomfortable. Were their opinions dumb? Or were their opinions OK?
On that topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who thought the change was pointless, because they found the term College Masters to be appropriate and distinctive and the agitation against it to be silly and precious, and who felt fairly strongly that the agitation was, yes, dumb.
So there seems to be at least some evidence that those opinions were in fact dumb.
Edit: It should go without saying, but it probably needs to be said anyway: the people I talked with were not against "social justice" (whatever that is) or for racism. Rather, they believed (mostly correctly) that the College Master title has little to do with either. The sad fact is that they were (quite justifiably) reluctant to express their views publicly.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 01:16 PM by georgewebb.)
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02-11-2019 01:07 PM |
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RiceLad15
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 01:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote: (02-11-2019 12:03 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: Going to the magister topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who were very happy with the change because they found the term College Masters to be weird and a bit uncomfortable. Were their opinions dumb? Or were their opinions OK?
On that topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who thought the change was pointless, because they found the term College Masters to be appropriate and distinctive and the agitation against it to be silly and precious, and who felt fairly strongly that the agitation was, yes, dumb.
So there seems to be at least some evidence that those opinions were in fact dumb.
Edit: It should go without saying, but it probably needs to be said anyway: the people I talked with were not against "social justice" (whatever that is) or for racism. Rather, they believed (mostly correctly) that the College Master title has little to do with either. The sad fact is that they were (quite justifiably) reluctant to express their views publicly.
Ah yes, because someone had a contrary opinion, those opinions are "dumb." I understand having a counter opinion (in this case that the change was unnecessary), but to condense the opinion that down to such a diminutive scale as being "dumb" is counterproductive.
I remember when I was a freshman and we all thought our Master had made a dumb decision regarding our winning Beer Bike theme's shirt, but in hind sight, it was really juvenile to think it was dumb and not consider that opinion and feelings of the person whose opinions and feelings he was considering. Sure, we could have kept the shirts as we originally designed them, but the decision to change them was really the right decision in the end.
But my main point was that I was trying to understand from Ant how he was able to make this distinction - when do opinions become virtue signalling? Who gets to be the arbiter of that?
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02-11-2019 02:06 PM |
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georgewebb
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 02:06 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: I remember when I was a freshman and we all thought our Master had made a dumb decision regarding our winning Beer Bike theme's shirt, but in hind sight, it was really juvenile to think it was dumb and not consider that opinion and feelings of the person whose opinions and feelings he was considering. Sure, we could have kept the shirts as we originally designed them, but the decision to change them was really the right decision in the end.
So you’re saying that, in hindsight, your original opinion was kinda dumb. :)
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02-11-2019 02:19 PM |
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Frizzy Owl
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 02:06 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: (02-11-2019 01:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote: (02-11-2019 12:03 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: Going to the magister topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who were very happy with the change because they found the term College Masters to be weird and a bit uncomfortable. Were their opinions dumb? Or were their opinions OK?
On that topic, I know and had conversations with people of color who thought the change was pointless, because they found the term College Masters to be appropriate and distinctive and the agitation against it to be silly and precious, and who felt fairly strongly that the agitation was, yes, dumb.
So there seems to be at least some evidence that those opinions were in fact dumb.
Edit: It should go without saying, but it probably needs to be said anyway: the people I talked with were not against "social justice" (whatever that is) or for racism. Rather, they believed (mostly correctly) that the College Master title has little to do with either. The sad fact is that they were (quite justifiably) reluctant to express their views publicly.
Ah yes, because someone had a contrary opinion, those opinions are "dumb." I understand having a counter opinion (in this case that the change was unnecessary), but to condense the opinion that down to such a diminutive scale as being "dumb" is counterproductive.
I remember when I was a freshman and we all thought our Master had made a dumb decision regarding our winning Beer Bike theme's shirt, but in hind sight, it was really juvenile to think it was dumb and not consider that opinion and feelings of the person whose opinions and feelings he was considering. Sure, we could have kept the shirts as we originally designed them, but the decision to change them was really the right decision in the end.
But my main point was that I was trying to understand from Ant how he was able to make this distinction - when do opinions become virtue signalling? Who gets to be the arbiter of that?
Everyone gets to be the arbiter of that. We all hear opinions every day, and we have to decide how seriously we take them.
Saying that all opinions have equal merit is the same thing as saying there are no dumb ideas and no irrational assertions. Nobody - including you - actually believes that. When you pretend you do, you aren't being sensitive, you're being a hypocrite.
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02-11-2019 02:21 PM |
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tanqtonic
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
The folks that wish to police year books in this fashion seem to be a 2018 'Evil-Spock world' mirror image version of the Dana Garvey/SNL 'Church Lady' character.
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02-11-2019 02:47 PM |
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Rice93
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RE: OT - Woke SJW exposing blackface in Rice’s yearbooks
(02-11-2019 02:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: The folks that wish to police year books in this fashion seem to be a 2018 'Evil-Spock world' mirror image version of the Dana Garvey/SNL 'Church Lady' character.
Policing yearbooks? Again... old yearbooks are in the news so it wasn't that surprising to review our yearbooks.
Pointing out a history of blackface/KKK membership doesn't make you a hysterical zealot (re: your Church Lady take). It's reviewing our history and maybe setting a frame of reference for modern issues that we're facing.
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02-11-2019 03:29 PM |
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