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surfsalot Offline
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Post: #41
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 10:25 AM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 09:39 AM)surfsalot Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 08:11 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  It appeared to me that our run at the end of the game came because Delaware let their foot off the pedal (like we did against W&M). It amazes me that we let them shoot 50%+ from the field, compared to our 38% and we still had a fighting chance in the last minute.

Say what you want about McGrath's X's and O's (I don't think he has done a great job at all so far), but this team still fights when down 20 points. That is a good sign. The players believe in the program, but are just not getting the results. That is something that did not happen during the Benny Moss days. The team quit on him.

I would have to disagree with the players believing in the program. I would say it is the complete opposite. They fight and show good body language because they are high caliber players, nothing more. No way players can believe in a system that has them losing.

Well we will have to see if anyone that McGrath recruited (everyone except Fornes and Taylor) transfers out after this season.

I hope I am wrong, but I don't see Kai staying. And with Fornes and Taylor being "forced" out, that is just another indication of bad coaching. Maybe it isn't CB and maybe he is taking too much advice from his assistants. At the end of the day, as others have mentioned on here, he is the boss so it falls on him.
02-11-2019 12:22 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #42
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 12:32 PM by SEA33HAWK.)
02-11-2019 12:31 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:31 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.

Its not the bottom line though. UNCG doesn't have the tradition or expectations we have. Before Miller, they'd been to two NCAA Tournaments, with the last one occurring in 2001.

Mike Dement, Wes' predecessor (and also a retread; he was UNCG head coach from 1991-95, going 55-56 before getting the SMU HC gig), went 69-125 and 44-67 in the SoCon, with 0 first place finishes in the North Division. In his final 4 years there, he was 22-80, with zero double-digit victory seasons in that span. Miller had three double-digit win seasons in his first 4 years, by comparison. Miller also finished 1st in the SoCon North in his first season, going 10-5 in league play. He earned a lot of latitude after a first season like that.

Their last successful coach before Miller was Fran McCaffrey (90-87, 1 NCAA Tournament, 1 NIT), who parlayed his success at UNCG into a job at Siena and then Iowa (his current job). That was back in 2005, the last time UNCG hoops was relevant until Miller turned things around in his 6th season on the job.

UNCG is not on the same level as UNCW as a job. I doubt there were many passionate fans there from the late 2000s up until Miller started having success. We're likely a much tougher fanbase to please.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 12:48 PM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
02-11-2019 12:42 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #44
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:31 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.

UNCW has a history and expectation to win, UNCG did not. You're right, no way on earth we hang on after five losing seasons. That's a good thing. You get what you expect. Also, UNCG doesn't have the overall costs of an athletic department like we do, since they play in the SoCon. Our travel expenses in the CAA blow theirs away.
02-11-2019 12:43 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:43 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 12:31 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.

UNCW has a history and expectation to win, UNCG did not. You're right, no way on earth we hang on after five losing seasons. That's a good thing. You get what you expect. Also, UNCG doesn't have the overall costs of an athletic department like we do, since they play in the SoCon. Our travel expenses in the CAA blow theirs away.

Yep. Our basketball budget is a little under $3 million anually. UNCG's is $1.6 million.

Source: https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/1...-mid-major
02-11-2019 12:51 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
And even after Wes received a 5-year contract extension in 2018 after his SoCon title season, his base salary only increased to $301,000. He must have been making peanuts after initially getting promoted from the Interim position in 2012.

C.B.'s current package gives him at least that, if not more:

Quote:The contract C.B. McGrath signed to take over the Seahawk program pays him a base salary of $300,000 a year for five years. McGrath can also earn supplemental pay starting with a $100,000 bonus for his first year as coach. The amount goes up $25,000 each year after that, but in years 2-5, the extra money is tied to McGrath’s TV and radio shows, Seahawk Club/Alumni Association event appearances and following university, CAA and NCAA rules.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 12:55 PM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
02-11-2019 12:54 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #47
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:43 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 12:31 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.

UNCW has a history and expectation to win, UNCG did not. You're right, no way on earth we hang on after five losing seasons. That's a good thing. You get what you expect. Also, UNCG doesn't have the overall costs of an athletic department like we do, since they play in the SoCon. Our travel expenses in the CAA blow theirs away.

So spoiled fans have a right to not give a coach a chance to build a success? And I'm not saying that's going to happen. But I will stick to my guns and be supportive for at least one more year. Even then I hope I won't express feelings on a social media outlet that discourages players and recruits. To me that just contributes to the problem.
02-11-2019 12:56 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:56 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  So spoiled fans have a right to not give a coach a chance to build a success? And I'm not saying that's going to happen. But I will stick to my guns and be supportive for at least one more year. Even then I hope I won't express feelings on a social media outlet that discourages players and recruits. To me that just contributes to the problem.

It's possible for fans to be supportive AND critical simultaneously. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't like being critical, and I don't think it serves much purpose anyways. Might as well not say anything at all, because the coaches don't need any armchair coaches telling them what's wrong; odds are they have much better analytics than we have, know what the problems are, and are working to address them over the course of the season.

And its especially worthless to call for the coach to be fired when I can think of 900,000 reasons why that won't happen this year anyways.

But I don't agree that fans aren't giving Coach McGrath a chance. We all want him to succeed. I just understand where 82 is coming from, where you care about the program over everything. That means being loyal to the program over a coach. Coaches come and go....we're here for the long haul.
02-11-2019 01:01 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #49
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:56 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 12:43 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 12:31 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.

UNCW has a history and expectation to win, UNCG did not. You're right, no way on earth we hang on after five losing seasons. That's a good thing. You get what you expect. Also, UNCG doesn't have the overall costs of an athletic department like we do, since they play in the SoCon. Our travel expenses in the CAA blow theirs away.

So spoiled fans have a right to not give a coach a chance to build a success? And I'm not saying that's going to happen. But I will stick to my guns and be supportive for at least one more year. Even then I hope I won't express feelings on a social media outlet that discourages players and recruits. To me that just contributes to the problem.
Some improvement 33, any improvement at all, NOT regression. The last two games D is about the first real sign i've seen, this week will be telling. I also don't think that expecting your program to be a contender is being spoiled. We have had several coaches here that have gotten it done, and I'd expect the same of any coach.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 01:15 PM by Seahawkhoops.)
02-11-2019 01:06 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #50
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
My concern isn't loyalty to a coach. My concern is affecting players' mindsets and recruits looking our way. I have plenty of concerns that I choose not to blow up a social media outlet with. The kids these days are social media savy. And they look at fan boards to get a feel for in what ways fans support the program they are playing for, or considering to play for. A strong, supportive fan base could be a deal breaker. Our fans in past were instrumtal in the recruitment of players. The environment in Trask has helped seal the deal with players like Kuljanin and even Blizzard. So all I'm saying is, I don't want to contribute to any downfall of this program. Very few members on this board has been here nearly as long as I have. I've been here with every coach we've had. Through the good times and the bad times. I feel very much invested in this school and the stellar reputation we have as a mid major fan base.
02-11-2019 01:43 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #51
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 01:43 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  My concern isn't loyalty to a coach. My concern is affecting players' mindsets and recruits looking our way. I have plenty of concerns that I choose not to blow up a social media outlet with. The kids these days are social media savy. And they look at fan boards to get a feel for in what ways fans support the program they are playing for, or considering to play for. A strong, supportive fan base could be a deal breaker. Our fans in past were instrumtal in the recruitment of players. The environment in Trask has helped seal the deal with players like Kuljanin and even Blizzard. So all I'm saying is, I don't want to contribute to any downfall of this program. Very few members on this board has been here nearly as long as I have. I've been here with every coach we've had. Through the good times and the bad times. I feel very much invested in this school and the stellar reputation we have as a mid major fan base.

I don't think anyone has doubted your fandom, i know i haven't.
02-11-2019 01:57 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #52
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 12:56 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 12:43 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(02-11-2019 12:31 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand Tomko was a problem all along for Benny. But the team really quit when Moss was reassigned away from the team. That's when they quit on the court and in the classroom. Before Benny was relieved of his coaching duties, the team had a great GPA. They actually had the highest GPA in his second or third year than any men's basketball team in UNCW history.
And I thought winning was the bottom line with most on here. And the bottom line is Miller didn't win in his first five years. I could only imagine how this board would be blowing up for five years.

UNCW has a history and expectation to win, UNCG did not. You're right, no way on earth we hang on after five losing seasons. That's a good thing. You get what you expect. Also, UNCG doesn't have the overall costs of an athletic department like we do, since they play in the SoCon. Our travel expenses in the CAA blow theirs away.

So spoiled fans have a right to not give a coach a chance to build a success? And I'm not saying that's going to happen. But I will stick to my guns and be supportive for at least one more year. Even then I hope I won't express feelings on a social media outlet that discourages players and recruits. To me that just contributes to the problem.

Spoiled fans, lol? How about spoiled coaches? If they want to play with the big boys, they have to produce like the big boys. Sorry. Not feeling sorry for coaches making close to $500,000 per year like ours.
02-11-2019 02:20 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: @ Delaware (Saturday, Feb 9 - 7 PM)
(02-11-2019 01:43 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  My concern isn't loyalty to a coach. My concern is affecting players' mindsets and recruits looking our way. I have plenty of concerns that I choose not to blow up a social media outlet with. The kids these days are social media savy. And they look at fan boards to get a feel for in what ways fans support the program they are playing for, or considering to play for. A strong, supportive fan base could be a deal breaker. Our fans in past were instrumtal in the recruitment of players. The environment in Trask has helped seal the deal with players like Kuljanin and even Blizzard. So all I'm saying is, I don't want to contribute to any downfall of this program. Very few members on this board has been here nearly as long as I have. I've been here with every coach we've had. Through the good times and the bad times. I feel very much invested in this school and the stellar reputation we have as a mid major fan base.

You're making some great points here 33, and some that I've talked to folks here more privately about in terms of it's okay to be critical but the constant negativity only serves to hurt the program more than help it. That doesn't mean anyone is "restricting opinions" of fans or anything like that. It just means we need to be more aware of our contribution. Plenty of players, family and others get on this board regularly. To think our commentary doesn't have an impact on them is naive, IMO.
02-11-2019 02:34 PM
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