Getting bent like every year. Just a different lube.



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(02-11-2019 08:49 PM)maximus Wrote:  Getting bent like every year. Just a different lube.



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how?

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:45 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 02:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 02:27 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  So, you dont mean percent, but points.

In that case, if you had taxable income of $100K, your taxes dropped $1800.

And thats supposed to be crumbs?

I never said that...I just feel it wasn't all that significant when you break it down per pay period. And before you go there, I've never been opposed to tax cuts for the middle class...what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing.

How does corporate spending have anything to do with the deficit? We have record tax revenues....

We don't have record tax revenues (if we do, please source) due to the corporate cut. The GOP plan (lie) is that tax cuts will produce more revenue than would have come in without the cut. Since this does not actually happen...and never has...and spending doesn't wane, deficits grow.

Since the corporations are not using their tax savings to increase wages nor increasing investments in PP&E enough to spur the economy, but rather for stock buy backs and just plain old hording cash, revenues will not increase enough to start reducing the deficit. It's really quite simple.

Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:45 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 02:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I never said that...I just feel it wasn't all that significant when you break it down per pay period. And before you go there, I've never been opposed to tax cuts for the middle class...what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing.

How does corporate spending have anything to do with the deficit? We have record tax revenues....

We don't have record tax revenues (if we do, please source) due to the corporate cut. The GOP plan (lie) is that tax cuts will produce more revenue than would have come in without the cut. Since this does not actually happen...and never has...and spending doesn't wane, deficits grow.

Since the corporations are not using their tax savings to increase wages nor increasing investments in PP&E enough to spur the economy, but rather for stock buy backs and just plain old hording cash, revenues will not increase enough to start reducing the deficit. It's really quite simple.

Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

We will collect the same amount in taxes in 3 years under Trump, with the new tax cuts, than we did in 5 years under Obama. That is the reality of things. You can try to spin all you want, but the reality is that we get more tax revenue with tax cuts, as has always been the case.

(02-12-2019 09:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:45 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  How does corporate spending have anything to do with the deficit? We have record tax revenues....

We don't have record tax revenues (if we do, please source) due to the corporate cut. The GOP plan (lie) is that tax cuts will produce more revenue than would have come in without the cut. Since this does not actually happen...and never has...and spending doesn't wane, deficits grow.

Since the corporations are not using their tax savings to increase wages nor increasing investments in PP&E enough to spur the economy, but rather for stock buy backs and just plain old hording cash, revenues will not increase enough to start reducing the deficit. It's really quite simple.

Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

We will collect the same amount in taxes in 3 years under Trump, with the new tax cuts, than we did in 5 years under Obama. That is the reality of things. You can try to spin all you want, but the reality is that we get more tax revenue with tax cuts, as has always been the case.

That's just complete nonsense...and it's akin to saying a smaller refund alone is due to the tax cut. There is NO evidence for what you're stating. If so, you'd provide it. There has never been anything shown EVER to say that tax cuts alone create more revenue. And certainly not always as you claim.

We're taking in more because of improvements to the economy, and there is no evidence (at least not yet) that this is a direct result of the corporate cut. When there is, present it, and I'll gladly agree with you...but just in this case as past tax cuts alone have never been shown to have increased tax revenues.

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:45 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 02:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I never said that...I just feel it wasn't all that significant when you break it down per pay period. And before you go there, I've never been opposed to tax cuts for the middle class...what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing.

How does corporate spending have anything to do with the deficit? We have record tax revenues....

We don't have record tax revenues (if we do, please source) due to the corporate cut. The GOP plan (lie) is that tax cuts will produce more revenue than would have come in without the cut. Since this does not actually happen...and never has...and spending doesn't wane, deficits grow.

Since the corporations are not using their tax savings to increase wages nor increasing investments in PP&E enough to spur the economy, but rather for stock buy backs and just plain old hording cash, revenues will not increase enough to start reducing the deficit. It's really quite simple.

Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

Where does tax revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like us.

Meaning, people actually have jobs.

Record employment across the board.

Inadvertantly... Oops.

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:45 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 02:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I never said that...I just feel it wasn't all that significant when you break it down per pay period. And before you go there, I've never been opposed to tax cuts for the middle class...what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing.

How does corporate spending have anything to do with the deficit? We have record tax revenues....

We don't have record tax revenues (if we do, please source) due to the corporate cut. The GOP plan (lie) is that tax cuts will produce more revenue than would have come in without the cut. Since this does not actually happen...and never has...and spending doesn't wane, deficits grow.

Since the corporations are not using their tax savings to increase wages nor increasing investments in PP&E enough to spur the economy, but rather for stock buy backs and just plain old hording cash, revenues will not increase enough to start reducing the deficit. It's really quite simple.

Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

But again - the deficit is not growing due to revenue problems - whether it comes from individuals or corporations. We dont have a problem on that side of the ledger. It's the other side. You see here that even with a tax cut to individuals and corporations we still are bringing in record numbers. So if the deficit is still growing, we are spending too much.

(02-12-2019 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  We don't have record tax revenues (if we do, please source) due to the corporate cut. The GOP plan (lie) is that tax cuts will produce more revenue than would have come in without the cut. Since this does not actually happen...and never has...and spending doesn't wane, deficits grow.

Since the corporations are not using their tax savings to increase wages nor increasing investments in PP&E enough to spur the economy, but rather for stock buy backs and just plain old hording cash, revenues will not increase enough to start reducing the deficit. It's really quite simple.

Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

We will collect the same amount in taxes in 3 years under Trump, with the new tax cuts, than we did in 5 years under Obama. That is the reality of things. You can try to spin all you want, but the reality is that we get more tax revenue with tax cuts, as has always been the case.

That's just complete nonsense...and it's akin to saying a smaller refund alone is due to the tax cut. There is NO evidence for what you're stating. If so, you'd provide it. There has never been anything shown EVER to say that tax cuts alone create more revenue. And certainly not always as you claim.

We're taking in more because of improvements to the economy, and there is no evidence (at least not yet) that this is a direct result of the corporate cut. When there is, present it, and I'll gladly agree with you...but just in this case as past tax cuts alone have never been shown to have increased tax revenues.

Just to be sure, you know you just confirmed that:

A) Trumps economy is kicking Obama's economy in the ass.
B) Even with the tax cuts, we are taking in more money.

Thats reality. You can try to spin it off on hypotheticals, but its reality.

(02-12-2019 12:12 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 04:11 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Record Tax Revenues

Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

Quote:So where does the federal government's revenue come from? Individual taxpayers like you provide most of it. Income taxes contribute $1.688 trillion, half of the total. Another third, $1.238 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. This includes $905 billion for Social Security, $275 billion for Medicare, and $47 billion for unemployment insurance.

Corporate taxes add $225 billion, only 7 percent. Trump's tax plan cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2017, corporations paid 9 percent and income taxpayers paid 48 percent.

We will collect the same amount in taxes in 3 years under Trump, with the new tax cuts, than we did in 5 years under Obama. That is the reality of things. You can try to spin all you want, but the reality is that we get more tax revenue with tax cuts, as has always been the case.

That's just complete nonsense...and it's akin to saying a smaller refund alone is due to the tax cut. There is NO evidence for what you're stating. If so, you'd provide it. There has never been anything shown EVER to say that tax cuts alone create more revenue. And certainly not always as you claim.

We're taking in more because of improvements to the economy, and there is no evidence (at least not yet) that this is a direct result of the corporate cut. When there is, present it, and I'll gladly agree with you...but just in this case as past tax cuts alone have never been shown to have increased tax revenues.

Just to be sure, you know you just confirmed that:

A) Trumps economy is kicking Obama's economy in the ass.
B) Even with the tax cuts, we are taking in more money.

Thats reality. You can try to spin it off on hypotheticals, but its reality.

But A and B do not make C (Tax cuts create more revenue) true! And you're wildly over exaggerating A. The economy under trump has continued to improve at nearly the same level as it was under Obama for years. And there's no proof yet that the tax cuts have anything thing to do with it.

And it's not a hypothetical. There is still no proof that cutting taxes alone increases revenue. NONE!

(02-12-2019 01:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 12:12 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Thanks...but you just proved...maybe inadvertently, that the record tax revenues are not due to trump's corporate tax cut. Oops.

We will collect the same amount in taxes in 3 years under Trump, with the new tax cuts, than we did in 5 years under Obama. That is the reality of things. You can try to spin all you want, but the reality is that we get more tax revenue with tax cuts, as has always been the case.

That's just complete nonsense...and it's akin to saying a smaller refund alone is due to the tax cut. There is NO evidence for what you're stating. If so, you'd provide it. There has never been anything shown EVER to say that tax cuts alone create more revenue. And certainly not always as you claim.

We're taking in more because of improvements to the economy, and there is no evidence (at least not yet) that this is a direct result of the corporate cut. When there is, present it, and I'll gladly agree with you...but just in this case as past tax cuts alone have never been shown to have increased tax revenues.

Just to be sure, you know you just confirmed that:

A) Trumps economy is kicking Obama's economy in the ass.
B) Even with the tax cuts, we are taking in more money.

Thats reality. You can try to spin it off on hypotheticals, but its reality.

But A and B do not make C (Tax cuts create more revenue) true! And you're wildly over exaggerating A. The economy under trump has continued to improve at nearly the same level as it was under Obama for years. And there's no proof yet that the tax cuts have anything thing to do with it.

And it's not a hypothetical. There is still no proof that cutting taxes alone increases revenue. NONE!

Correlation may not equal causation here - can't really be sure, but there is also no evidence for your original assertation:

"what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing."

You cannot say that the corporate tax reduction is the cause for our growing deficit. It simply is not true. And that is the point we were arguing with you.

I find it funny that someone (who didn't vote for Trump) feels 'betrayed' because those who took money out of their home equity to invest in the market no longer get to not only deduct the interest they were paying on the borrowed money, but ALSO generally benefit from things like claiming capital gains and the lower rate there rather than regular income.... but of course, most all democrats have said that investing retirement money in the stock market is too risky... I can't keep up with the hypocritical spin.

This is PRECISELY the sort of 'loophole for the wealthy' that every Democrat who ran (or has announced will run again) has promised to close... Yes, it impacts a few in the middle class, but it is far more directed towards higher earners.

and yes, as long as you're below some relatively large thresholds, you can still choose to refinance instead and take out equity (just not as a line of credit) and claim the deduction.

So someone who is engaging in a relatively sophisticated arbitrage is upset that in order to keep the wealthy from getting even wealthier, they have to jump through an additional hoop.

Ridiculous.

(02-12-2019 03:56 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 01:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 12:12 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 09:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  We will collect the same amount in taxes in 3 years under Trump, with the new tax cuts, than we did in 5 years under Obama. That is the reality of things. You can try to spin all you want, but the reality is that we get more tax revenue with tax cuts, as has always been the case.

That's just complete nonsense...and it's akin to saying a smaller refund alone is due to the tax cut. There is NO evidence for what you're stating. If so, you'd provide it. There has never been anything shown EVER to say that tax cuts alone create more revenue. And certainly not always as you claim.

We're taking in more because of improvements to the economy, and there is no evidence (at least not yet) that this is a direct result of the corporate cut. When there is, present it, and I'll gladly agree with you...but just in this case as past tax cuts alone have never been shown to have increased tax revenues.

Just to be sure, you know you just confirmed that:

A) Trumps economy is kicking Obama's economy in the ass.
B) Even with the tax cuts, we are taking in more money.

Thats reality. You can try to spin it off on hypotheticals, but its reality.

But A and B do not make C (Tax cuts create more revenue) true! And you're wildly over exaggerating A. The economy under trump has continued to improve at nearly the same level as it was under Obama for years. And there's no proof yet that the tax cuts have anything thing to do with it.

And it's not a hypothetical. There is still no proof that cutting taxes alone increases revenue. NONE!

Correlation may not equal causation here - can't really be sure, but there is also no evidence for your original assertation:

"what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing."

You cannot say that the corporate tax reduction is the cause for our growing deficit. It simply is not true. And that is the point we were arguing with you.

I didn't really say that...but whatever.

(02-12-2019 03:56 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  "what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing."

You cannot say that the corporate tax reduction is the cause for our growing deficit. It simply is not true. And that is the point we were arguing with you.

but what you CAN say is that hiring and raising pay (as measured by the number of people working and hourly earnings) IS rising faster than it was previously. As much as hoped? Maybe not. More? Yes. The implication here is that they are 'bad'. That evidence is not present.

The deficit for 2018 and 19 (all the way through 2023 as I recall) was expected to rise even before Trump took office. The reason the deficit keeps growing is because that's what the 'fixed' portions of the budget have baked into them.... mostly the ACA. The question is, are they growing faster or slower than was projected by the OMB under Obama's budget. I blame Republicans for not repealing the ACA which they promised to do. I know why they didn't... but they should have tried harder, even if they still failed.

I'd also look at revenues vs expenses. If revenues are up, it's hard to argue that tax cuts caused an increase in the deficit. It seems logical that if revenues are up but expenses are up more, that it's the expenses that are the problem, not revenues.

I'll let someone else do the work to figure that out. Not my circus

(02-12-2019 04:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 03:56 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

Redwingtom Wrote:What I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing."

You cannot say that the corporate tax reduction is the cause for our growing deficit. It simply is not true. And that is the point we were arguing with you.

but what you CAN say is that hiring and raising pay (as measured by the number of people working and hourly earnings) IS rising faster than it was previously. As much as hoped? Maybe not. More? Yes. The implication here is that they are 'bad'. That evidence is not present.

The deficit for 2018 and 19 (all the way through 2023 as I recall) was expected to rise even before Trump took office. The reason the deficit keeps growing is because that's what the 'fixed' portions of the budget have baked into them.... mostly the ACA. The question is, are they growing faster or slower than was projected by the OMB under Obama's budget. I blame Republicans for not repealing the ACA which they promised to do. I know why they didn't... but they should have tried harder, even if they still failed.

I'd also look at revenues vs expenses. If revenues are up, it's hard to argue that tax cuts caused an increase in the deficit. It seems logical that if revenues are up but expenses are up more, that it's the expenses that are the problem, not revenues.

I'll let someone else do the work to figure that out. Not my circus

FIFY - Monarch did not write the first part of that. I did. And I almost passed out thinking you actually responded to another poster and not just me.

(02-11-2019 07:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Wow,

The cult is going to cult. You used to be able to take these deductions off and they took them away. That hurt the middle class. It is what it is. We went 1.5 trillion in more debt and screwed the middle class in the process by taking away deductions that they used in the past. Spin it any way you want. People who itemized got hammered.

I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary in 2016.

As I said earlier in this thread my taxes have increased this year because of the inability to itemize or more specifically because the removal of the personal exemptions.

But that will not have any effect on my 2020 vote. A few more dollars against all of the monumental foolishness proposed by Democrats may actually force me to don gloves and vote for Trump. We'll see.

(02-12-2019 04:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  FIFY - Monarch did not write the first part of that. I did. And I almost passed out thinking you actually responded to another poster and not just me.

lI didn't know who wrote it... I just know that monarch quoted it so it wasn't him saying it... I was simply adding on to what he said in response to it rather than go back and find the actual quote.

The fact that you feel I only respond to you BUT so do a few others on here (which along with this incident shows that I don't seek you out as a poster) only demonstrates to me that we (you and these others vs me) often see the world entirely differently... which is precisely what i seek, hence why perhaps I often find 'you' as well as these others. I don't want an echo chamber of ideas... I am happy to learn a different perspective... even if I disagree completely.

As an example, I frequently take issue with TILB, even when I agree with him on an issue... because he rarely presents a cogent defense... one that can be agreed with logically. It's almost always an emotional response based on a preconception, which doesn't sway anyone who doesn't share that preconception. Similar with this whole 'orange man bad' thing currently rampant on the left. If you don't start from that perspective, it's hard for anyone to get to many of the conclusions that some do. Great for a echo chamber, but not for remotely intelligent discourse.

(02-12-2019 04:46 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 07:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Wow,

The cult is going to cult. You used to be able to take these deductions off and they took them away. That hurt the middle class. It is what it is. We went 1.5 trillion in more debt and screwed the middle class in the process by taking away deductions that they used in the past. Spin it any way you want. People who itemized got hammered.

I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary in 2016.

As I said earlier in this thread my taxes have increased this year because of the inability to itemize or more specifically because the removal of the personal exemptions.

But that will not have any effect on my 2020 vote. A few more dollars against all of the monumental foolishness proposed by Democrats may actually force me to don gloves and vote for Trump. We'll see.

you're hardly alone in that camp....

toss in your state may potentially matter....

I can only say, " 'well done' in cognizant recognition."

any version of 3rd party, is a vote for a dippo moving forward....

there's a reason DJT ran as ®....

There's only one reason after two years this country isn't more towards the middle....democrats took it personally. Most of the things Trump ran on were things the democrats were for in the past 20 years. If not for being crybaby idiots....

there's no doubt in my mind Trump would have worked with the middle of both sides and not only would the economy be rocking (which it is) but most other things. Especially health care.

Those on the left read Trump wrong and took his mouth to mean something totally different than what he was saying. If not for the press the left would be in deep shitt. Even with the press the working poor (all races) are starting to see who's doing things for them. Again, when talking about the working class and middle class I believe all races, agree, ...allowing more people to cross our border and taking jobs that fits their skill level...is bad for this country. And them.

The working class and the poor is making out like a bandit with the higher standard deduction and child tax credit. More of them are working than any time in history. That's with the democrats fighting this President since day. Think about if the idiots had tried to work with him....on things they agreed on before he took office.

(02-12-2019 06:58 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  There's only one reason after two years this country isn't more towards the middle....democrats took it personally. Most of the things Trump ran on were things the democrats were for in the past 20 years. If not for being crybaby idiots....

there's no doubt in my mind Trump would have worked with the middle of both sides and not only would the economy be rocking (which it is) but most other things. Especially health care.

Those on the left read Trump wrong and took his mouth to mean something totally different than what he was saying. If not for the press the left would be in deep shitt. Even with the press the working poor (all races) are starting to see who's doing things for them. Again, when talking about the working class and middle class I believe all races, agree, ...allowing more people to cross our border and taking jobs that fits their skill level...is bad for this country. And them.

The working class and the poor is making out like a bandit with the higher standard deduction and child tax credit. More of them are working than any time in history. That's with the democrats fighting this President since day. Think about if the idiots had tried to work with him....on things they agreed on before he took office.

Could you cite a couple please?

(02-12-2019 04:25 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 03:56 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 01:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 12:12 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-12-2019 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That's just complete nonsense...and it's akin to saying a smaller refund alone is due to the tax cut. There is NO evidence for what you're stating. If so, you'd provide it. There has never been anything shown EVER to say that tax cuts alone create more revenue. And certainly not always as you claim.

We're taking in more because of improvements to the economy, and there is no evidence (at least not yet) that this is a direct result of the corporate cut. When there is, present it, and I'll gladly agree with you...but just in this case as past tax cuts alone have never been shown to have increased tax revenues.

Just to be sure, you know you just confirmed that:

A) Trumps economy is kicking Obama's economy in the ass.
B) Even with the tax cuts, we are taking in more money.

Thats reality. You can try to spin it off on hypotheticals, but its reality.

But A and B do not make C (Tax cuts create more revenue) true! And you're wildly over exaggerating A. The economy under trump has continued to improve at nearly the same level as it was under Obama for years. And there's no proof yet that the tax cuts have anything thing to do with it.

And it's not a hypothetical. There is still no proof that cutting taxes alone increases revenue. NONE!

Correlation may not equal causation here - can't really be sure, but there is also no evidence for your original assertation:

"what I was opposed to was the huge corporate tax, which as we've seen so far has only lined the corporations pockets...they're not investing, hiring or raising pay as much as the GOP had hoped...and that's why the deficit keeps growing and growing and growing."

You cannot say that the corporate tax reduction is the cause for our growing deficit. It simply is not true. And that is the point we were arguing with you.

I didn't really say that...but whatever.

You most certainly did - I just quoted it straight from your post.

"I was opposed to the huge corporate tax cut ---> It has only lined corporations pockets ---> They are not investing as a result of the cut ----> AND THATS WHY THE DEFICIT KEEPS GROWING"