People that are paying $120+/mo to have a cable package with live sports don't want to also have to pay $80 for a ticket, another $20 for parking, and another $20 on concessions. Fans have been getting nickeled and dimed from all angles. I feel you're going to see more teams offer more affordable concession stand prices to attract fans out to games.

(02-03-2019 10:59 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I was at the Orlando International Airport the day after Dale Jr. died... lost of folks from Daytona were flying home...and the place was just desolate... it was as though a President had been assassinated.

Last I knew Dale Earnhardt, Jr. was alive and well. He was doing booth commentary for the 24 hours of Daytona a couple weeks ago.

(02-05-2019 01:37 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 12:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 11:27 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  NASCAR is experiencing different issues. 1 - t-shirt fans flocked to the sport, inflating prices and forcing true fans out. The t-shirt fans are now moving on to what ever fad is next. True fans will be back when the prices adjust. 2 - NASCAR is losing its most popular drivers. Dale Jr., who seemed like he hardly ever won a race, was one of the most popular ever and is now retired.

As others have noted, college has its own issues - games too long, ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices, required donations, TV, traffic, etc.

And actual game experience stinks. My wife and I held our season tickets for over 4 decades. Whether Auburn won or lost had a great season or a lousy one we were there. We sat with the same folks for over those 40 years with minor changes. Their kids were like our kids, and then their grandkids were like ours. When IMG took over the game day experience the constant blaring of the new mega stadium speakers made it impossible to socialize with our friends of four decades at the stadium. The couple who had sat next to us for those four decades had to cup their hands and shout into our ears to be heard. We couldn't even have the hour before kickoff to socialize because the damned piped in noise started as soon as the gates were open.

I could cheerfully have choked the ever loving life out of the stupid S.O.B. who decided that piped in noise added to the television excitement!

What all these corporate add people forgot was that the game event is a social occasion as much as it is a game. I'm totally cool with the legitimate noise of the game. But now you can't even talk in between plays and timeouts because as soon as the action on the field stops the speakers start blaring pieces of the same noise all over again.

We still support the school, but seldom do anything now except give the tickets away. We see our friends in our home where the food is better, the noise level of the game doesn't drown out our conversation, and where nobody has peed on the bathroom facilities.

You know it's the little things that make you feel ripped off. When they passed a rule against stadium cushions in order to force all the fans to pay $5 bucks for the stadium rental of one, I felt more ripped off over that than I did over the donation to the Athletic Fund for the right to buy tickets, or the $85 dollar tickets. If $2,500 a year for the donation and tickets isn't enough for a bunch of jerks who were making my game day experience miserable with their idiotic schemes then maybe they don't really want loyal fans if they have to stick us again for a $5 dollar cushion every game.

But to top it all off in the rude department, one of our friends lost her Mom. Some jerk from the Athletic Department called her the day of her mother's funeral to tell her if she wanted her mother's tickets (she had been faculty) that their family would have to increase their donation level. She told them where they could stick their tickets, and the one's she had faithfully bought for decades.

My point being this:

Alumni feel a close bond to their school which has nothing to do with wins and losses. They resent being fleeced when their donations, years of buying tickets, and faithful attendance indicate their loyalty and imply a deeper relationship to the school than that of a consumer buying a product.

People my age resent the hell out of having to wait 45 minutes to an hour in a phone queue to speak to a person from AT&T when we have a problem. We resent state and federal governments that want our tax money by April 15th but whose sorry butts can't get us the tax forms before mid March. We resent having a feckless FCC that permits our very elderly parents to get fleeced by overseas phone scammers when in our lifetimes the FCC once tracked down bunco schemes and arrested them and when our phone companies could simply block overseas calls linked to scammers if their affiliate overseas wasn't raking in some revenue from the phone banks being used to scam.

Our Federal Government once looked out for the people and Congressmen would return a reply to a call or letter.

Corporations have inserted their noses, along with their lack of personal contact and their lack of accountability, into every aspect of our lives and have corrupted our state and federal government in the process. There is no customer relations being practiced anywhere that I can tell.

Attendance is down at college events, and NASCAR, and the NFL, and elsewhere because one crappy corporately run experience is the same as the next. It's all as phony as Epcot is at Disney World. And now it has invaded our college venues and people whose voices can't be heard by the corporate entities sponsoring the mess, and can't be heard over their noise, vote with their feet. And when we are good and pissed off we'll start voting with our wallets and then and only then will those greedy bastards start listening. And apparently it has begun!

+2 for much of what you said, even though some of that starts to veer into Get Off My Lawn territory. Sports are increasingly television shows for which they're charging the live audience who watches it. And the need to squeeze every last penny out of the consumers is ultimately what is killing the sport for older fans. What they don't seem to realize is that none of them are really growing their future fan base.

USFFan

Thanks. And that's okay. I do resemble the "Get off my lawn" guy. But usually it's a bit in reverse. It's more "Slow Down On My Street!" Seriously we live a mile from our seats. But, our residential street, thanks to lousy city development, has become a cut through. The problem is we have some very elderly people trying to back out onto the street in a 25 mph zone through which subdivision drivers trying to find a quicker route to work at the University do 50 routinely down a street where small children play in the front yard, elementary kids ride their bikes, and the elderly try to get in and out of their driveway. I'm the guy that keeps calling the cops to patrol a street that the city commissioners don't wan't patrolled at peak hours because to do so would create traffic jams downtown and on campus. I figure this year I'll organize the neighborhood and put a little political pressure on them.

I love the town, the campus, and for the most part don't mind the students. It tends to be the 30 somethings who work here that are the tough pills to swallow.

But I was serious about my first post. Where our schools are losing support is in taking their alums for granted, alienating them with their concocted gouges (which is totally absurd since almost all of them give), and how when the campus does anything to a venue they never consult their fans first. It's just like corporations where all decisions are made in the vacuum of the board room and all clients are just expected to acquiesce. And I'm sorry for those guys at the top who think this way because my age demographic just doesn't acquiesce. As Cathy Bates said in "Fried Green Tomatoes" we are older and better insured!

(02-05-2019 03:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Thanks. And that's okay. I do resemble the "Get off my lawn" guy. But usually it's a bit in reverse. It's more "Slow Down On My Street!" Seriously we live a mile from our seats. But, our residential street, thanks to lousy city development, has become a cut through. The problem is we have some very elderly people trying to back out onto the street in a 25 mph zone through which subdivision drivers trying to find a quicker route to work at the University do 50 routinely down a street where small children play in the front yard, elementary kids ride their bikes, and the elderly try to get in and out of their driveway. I'm the guy that keeps calling the cops to patrol a street that the city commissioners don't wan't patrolled at peak hours because to do so would create traffic jams downtown and on campus. I figure this year I'll organize the neighborhood and put a little political pressure on them.

I love the town, the campus, and for the most part don't mind the students. It tends to be the 30 somethings who work here that are the tough pills to swallow.

But I was serious about my first post. Where our schools are losing support is in taking their alums for granted, alienating them with their concocted gouges (which is totally absurd since almost all of them give), and how when the campus does anything to a venue they never consult their fans first. It's just like corporations where all decisions are made in the vacuum of the board room and all clients are just expected to acquiesce. And I'm sorry for those guys at the top who think this way because my age demographic just doesn't acquiesce. As Cathy Bates said in "Fried Green Tomatoes" we are older and better insured!

I suggest you ask the city for roundabouts and speed bumps. A nice stick cone redirection around a block here or there as well. The neighborhood in San Jose where my brother used to live put in those things, and it worked wonders. People stopped using the street as a cut through.

(02-05-2019 05:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 03:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Thanks. And that's okay. I do resemble the "Get off my lawn" guy. But usually it's a bit in reverse. It's more "Slow Down On My Street!" Seriously we live a mile from our seats. But, our residential street, thanks to lousy city development, has become a cut through. The problem is we have some very elderly people trying to back out onto the street in a 25 mph zone through which subdivision drivers trying to find a quicker route to work at the University do 50 routinely down a street where small children play in the front yard, elementary kids ride their bikes, and the elderly try to get in and out of their driveway. I'm the guy that keeps calling the cops to patrol a street that the city commissioners don't wan't patrolled at peak hours because to do so would create traffic jams downtown and on campus. I figure this year I'll organize the neighborhood and put a little political pressure on them.

I love the town, the campus, and for the most part don't mind the students. It tends to be the 30 somethings who work here that are the tough pills to swallow.

But I was serious about my first post. Where our schools are losing support is in taking their alums for granted, alienating them with their concocted gouges (which is totally absurd since almost all of them give), and how when the campus does anything to a venue they never consult their fans first. It's just like corporations where all decisions are made in the vacuum of the board room and all clients are just expected to acquiesce. And I'm sorry for those guys at the top who think this way because my age demographic just doesn't acquiesce. As Cathy Bates said in "Fried Green Tomatoes" we are older and better insured!

I suggest you ask the city for roundabouts and speed bumps. A nice stick cone redirection around a block here or there as well. The neighborhood in San Jose where my brother used to live put in those things, and it worked wonders. People stopped using the street as a cut through.

We've petitioned for speed bumps. There's no logistical way to work a round a bout. The reason they won't respond on the speed bumps is because the Public school buses are parked in a area to the West of the city. All of the schools save 1 are built on the East side of the city and the most direct route to those schools' loading zones is to use our residential street as a cut through. There are so many buses from 2:15 to 3:30 that bumps would back up traffic at main intersections.

But both are reasonable suggestions and the bumps would work. The simple issue is that the commissioners allowed for too much overbuilding which resulted in grid locked main thoroughfares at go to work and go home time. So it boils down to lousy city planning by a group of part time commissioners who have been heavily lobbied by real estate brokers and local contractors. You reap what you sow. Greed and expediency for profit have led not just our neighborhood, but many, to have such issues. It's just that ours is quickest way from East Auburn to West Auburn and from the campus to the subdivisions built up outside of the East Auburn perimeter. The last election saw about a 60% turnover in commissioners. The new guys have their hands full cleaning up what was a good old boy (locals) system from the days when the town was maybe 6 thousand when the students were gone. Virtually all of them had graduated high school within in two years of my wife and none of them had been the sharpest tools in the box, but they were who was left after the brightest left to fulfill careers. The new commissioners seem to be sharper and migrated here as the campus and community grew.

We'll see what they are able to do get done.

(02-05-2019 05:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We've petitioned for speed bumps. There's no logistical way to work a round a bout. The reason they won't respond on the speed bumps is because the Public school buses are parked in a area to the West of the city. All of the schools save 1 are built on the East side of the city and the most direct route to those schools' loading zones is to use our residential street as a cut through. There are so many buses from 2:15 to 3:30 that bumps would back up traffic at main intersections.

But both are reasonable suggestions and the bumps would work. The simple issue is that the commissioners allowed for too much overbuilding which resulted in grid locked main thoroughfares at go to work and go home time. So it boils down to lousy city planning by a group of part time commissioners who have been heavily lobbied by real estate brokers and local contractors. You reap what you sow. Greed and expediency for profit have led not just our neighborhood, but many, to have such issues.

Sounds familiar. My experience with the speed-bump issue is, whatever they tell you, the real reason they won't install them is: They want drivers to use your street as a secondary thru route, because it's their half baked way of dealing with the poor local planning issues you mentioned, but they don't want to tell you that.

(02-05-2019 12:22 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

Quote:DAYTONA BEACH — Daytona International Speedway is not immune to the downward spiral which has gripped NASCAR events across the country in recent years.

While a News-Journal estimated 60,000 spectators is hardly a failure, it’s not an unqualified success either, and the smaller head count at last weekend’s race had a ripple effect through the community. The Speedway does not release attendance figures.

Race back to 20 years ago and the Speedway had a sellout for its Fourth of July weekend racing bash.

The track sold some 170,000 tickets in 1998 as NASCAR was gaining national popularity and attracting new fans from every corner of the country, especially urban areas.

Last Saturday night’s crowd estimate included race fans scattered in the 101,500-seat stadium and those hardy infield faithful who watched atop their RVs and motorhomes and scaffolds.

NASCAR’s base has always relied on blue collar participation. When the recession hit, that group took the hardest fall.

Several big tracks, including Charlotte Motor Speedway, Dover Motor Speedway and Richmond International Raceway, have removed entire sections of grandstand because of ticket demand decline. Here in Daytona, the Speedway removed a 60,000-seat backstretch grandstand near Turn 2 as part of the Daytona Rising project.
Those vested in the business say the sport is in a bottoming out period and predict the crowds will eventually return, just not in the same numbers as 1998.

https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/...nue-to-sag

I know this is NASCAR and not college but we don't look at how the great recession has impacted sports attendance negatively.

Daytona had to downsize from 170,000 to 101,000. Ratings and attendance across NASCAR are close to half of what they were in 2005.

For those who think any program with a "P" on it is immune from a massive loss of fan support think again.

Why is it that you attribute a decline in sports attendance to a recession, instead of the several other reasons it could have happened? And which recession are we talking about?

If the cost to attend a game wasn't so high more people would attend in person. It's as if university athletic departments are taking a page out of the books of most shopping malls:

As the number of tenants declines they try to make up for it by raising the rent, which in turn drives away even more of their tenants until they are are left with a deserted and univiting ghost town and the whole enterprise collapses on itself.

(02-05-2019 02:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-03-2019 10:59 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I was at the Orlando International Airport the day after Dale Jr. died... lost of folks from Daytona were flying home...and the place was just desolate... it was as though a President had been assassinated.

Last I knew Dale Earnhardt, Jr. was alive and well. He was doing booth commentary for the 24 hours of Daytona a couple weeks ago.

I meant Sr.

Oh and you quoted yourself.

(02-05-2019 06:55 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 12:22 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

Quote:DAYTONA BEACH — Daytona International Speedway is not immune to the downward spiral which has gripped NASCAR events across the country in recent years.

While a News-Journal estimated 60,000 spectators is hardly a failure, it’s not an unqualified success either, and the smaller head count at last weekend’s race had a ripple effect through the community. The Speedway does not release attendance figures.

Race back to 20 years ago and the Speedway had a sellout for its Fourth of July weekend racing bash.

The track sold some 170,000 tickets in 1998 as NASCAR was gaining national popularity and attracting new fans from every corner of the country, especially urban areas.

Last Saturday night’s crowd estimate included race fans scattered in the 101,500-seat stadium and those hardy infield faithful who watched atop their RVs and motorhomes and scaffolds.

NASCAR’s base has always relied on blue collar participation. When the recession hit, that group took the hardest fall.

Several big tracks, including Charlotte Motor Speedway, Dover Motor Speedway and Richmond International Raceway, have removed entire sections of grandstand because of ticket demand decline. Here in Daytona, the Speedway removed a 60,000-seat backstretch grandstand near Turn 2 as part of the Daytona Rising project.
Those vested in the business say the sport is in a bottoming out period and predict the crowds will eventually return, just not in the same numbers as 1998.

https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/...nue-to-sag

I know this is NASCAR and not college but we don't look at how the great recession has impacted sports attendance negatively.

Daytona had to downsize from 170,000 to 101,000. Ratings and attendance across NASCAR are close to half of what they were in 2005.

For those who think any program with a "P" on it is immune from a massive loss of fan support think again.

Why is it that you attribute a decline in sports attendance to a recession, instead of the several other reasons it could have happened? And which recession are we talking about?

It definitely wasnt the social security check recession the one that you fear but the great recession of 2007 to 2010 and beyond that finished what was left of the blue collar core of the country.

Middle class today still exists but it has a totally different definition. In 1980 it was a single bread winner in a 1500 sqft house that could afford to vacation to Tennessse. Today it's more of a statistical average two income earner making at 80k in a late model 2000 sqft house. Both busy working and making money.

The days of the blue collar lunch pail sports fan for better or worse are gone. NASCAR had a lot of fans die out.

(02-05-2019 08:43 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 02:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-03-2019 10:59 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I was at the Orlando International Airport the day after Dale Jr. died... lost of folks from Daytona were flying home...and the place was just desolate... it was as though a President had been assassinated.

Last I knew Dale Earnhardt, Jr. was alive and well. He was doing booth commentary for the 24 hours of Daytona a couple weeks ago.

I meant Sr.

Oh and you quoted yourself.

ROFL. fat fingered that one.

I knew what you meant, just pokin'

(02-06-2019 12:30 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 08:43 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 02:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-03-2019 10:59 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I was at the Orlando International Airport the day after Dale Jr. died... lost of folks from Daytona were flying home...and the place was just desolate... it was as though a President had been assassinated.

Last I knew Dale Earnhardt, Jr. was alive and well. He was doing booth commentary for the 24 hours of Daytona a couple weeks ago.

I meant Sr.

Oh and you quoted yourself.

ROFL. fat fingered that one.

I knew what you meant, just pokin'

Pretty big errors my part.

It's all good.

I haven't particularly noticed a downturn in attendance. Attendance is usually 80-90% capacity for G5/FCS teams and close to 100% for SEC games. Night games tend to draw better all around and early season noon games tend to have people leave at halftime due to heat.

(02-05-2019 09:56 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Ticket prices are getting too high!!! People are tired of being gouged when they can watch it from home for free. I think you will see a continuing of stadium seating reductions, but with more premium seating for those with big bucks.

AGREE ^^^^^^^^^^^^

College and Pro Sports:

1. Ticket prices are too high especially if you want to take your family.
2. Parking prices are too high.
3. Concession stand prices are too high especially if you want to take your family.

Stay home and watch the game for free on HD TV (you have already paid your monthly service fee). Parking is free in your driveway and you can drink and eat a lot cheaper than the prices at the concession stand.

(02-05-2019 09:56 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Ticket prices are getting too high!!! People are tired of being gouged when they can watch it from home for free. I think you will see a continuing of stadium seating reductions, but with more premium seating for those with big bucks.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone builds a new stadium in which the entire lower level between the 20 yard lines is premium seating, just as there are newer arenas where almost the entire lower level is premium seating.

(02-07-2019 03:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 09:56 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Ticket prices are getting too high!!! People are tired of being gouged when they can watch it from home for free. I think you will see a continuing of stadium seating reductions, but with more premium seating for those with big bucks.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone builds a new stadium in which the entire lower level between the 20 yard lines is premium seating, just as there are newer arenas where almost the entire lower level is premium seating.

That's pretty much how the 100, 200, and the 300 level of the Cowboys Stadium is designed. The 400 level in which you mainly watch the big screen in front of you, is not premium seating between the 20's. You just can't see the field. The regular folks get the 400 level and the end zones.

(02-07-2019 03:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 09:56 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Ticket prices are getting too high!!! People are tired of being gouged when they can watch it from home for free. I think you will see a continuing of stadium seating reductions, but with more premium seating for those with big bucks.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone builds a new stadium in which the entire lower level between the 20 yard lines is premium seating, just as there are newer arenas where almost the entire lower level is premium seating.

Basically what MLS is doing. They tend to offer really cheap end zone seats and varying degrees of "premium" between the goal lines.

There are a lot of things wrong with NASCAR, and it has nothing to do with the recession. The beginning of the end is with their screw job to ESPN and CBS, then the boring cookie cutter tracks with some closed down like Pikes Peak Speedway, Toyota, drivers trying to kill others on track and in pits and so many other things. NASCAR took a hit when Dale Earnhardt SR died at Daytona.

I am a season ticket holder for the Chicago Fire. I may go to 3 games a year.

From my home, the stadium is too far. While the staff does a good job saying, "Hi", is is a long day to get there, watch the game, and get home.

Who has 6 hours to spare?

IMHO, you have multiple issues going on that is having a negative effect on attendance.

• Season tickets are too expensive. Add in an annual PSL on top of it.
• Concession stand prices are too expensive.
• Venues are not so family friendly anymore. Costs but also generally people attending don't utilize their 'filters' like they used to in the past.
• Fantasy sports are having a negative effect on the game itself (IMHO) - people are more concerned with individual stats than they are with the games themselves.
• TV production quality plus the quality of TV set resolution makes the viewing experience better in the comfort of your own home than at the stadium/ball park.
• Smartphone addiction reduces social interaction in general, and IMHO a big draw to the sporting event itself is as a social gathering. When you are less tied into people, it's much easier to stay connected on the multimedia devices at home vs away from it.
• Kids are not as interested in playing sports now as they were a generation ago. That has an affect on their draw to the games themselves.
• People's access to other entertainment options is much improved over what we had generations ago. Sports venues have to compete with Netflix, Other streaming options, Video game consoles, etc. etc.