I posted this in another thread, but felt this deserves a discussion. Have found that, especially at MBB/WBB games, we have some seriously overboard ushers.

1. On saturday, I was turned away from bringing in a half cup of coffee. a. Rice doesn't serve Americanos at Tudor and b. its a half cup of hot coffee.

2. I walked over to the other side of the stands at halftime and was in the main foyer when the game started. I stood by the doorway, waiting for the ball to go out of bounds before returning to my seat, at which point the suited guy there started sternly scolding me for standing there and insisted I return to my seat.

I understand that we have policies, but for a small school with even smaller attendance, these are absurd. Would it really hurt anyone for me to stand in the corner until the ball is out of bounds so I don't disturb 20 people on my way back? What do we lose by keeping someone happy if they want to bring in a clearly consumed cup of coffee?

Maybe some day if and when we make the big leagues, this would make sense. But I ended up walking in annoyed at having to throw out part of a perfectly good coffee. A coffee that cost me almost as much as a ticket (the absurd prices of Brochstein is another discussion). Until then, IMO, Rice needs to chill out, because needlessly sticking it to fans isn't a good strategy.

EDIT: Specifically on line items that do not affect the bottom line. I wasn't trying to bring in competing food or a coke. If Rice wants to serve a nice Americano, then by all means, I'll pay for it. But until then, let me have my coffee. The several Parliamentarians who have met me at HRS have seen me with a cup before the game.

When someone throws out the lack of an Americanos coffee at a BB game as a serious complaint, I have serious doubts about the direction of this country as a whole.

(02-04-2019 09:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  When someone throws out the lack of an Americanos coffee at a BB game as a serious complaint, I have serious doubts about the direction of this country as a whole.

:hotcoffee:

lol. Notice, I wasn't asking for one to be available (although that would be nice). Merely, the ability to bring my cup in, one who's acquisition I planned in anticipation of there being no alternative.

But as pointed out elsewhere, ditching the drink is pretty much SOP at all arenas. I had to do that with my drink from dinner before going into the ODU game. Take the time to finish it, then go in - it's what I did with my drink. Heck, it happens at high school games (in my experience).

It's probably a carry over of those lovely TSA security rules that you probably are well aware of.

As for the other scenario, I don't have familiarity with the layout to comment. I do know that I've been at stadiums where ushers will make sure no one is standing in the typically narrow halls from the concourse to the seats/stairs. If this is anything like what you've said, it's not just a Rice thing.

(02-04-2019 09:59 PM)gsloth Wrote:  But as pointed out elsewhere, ditching the drink is pretty much SOP at all arenas. I had to do that with my drink from dinner before going into the ODU game. Take the time to finish it, then go in - it's what I did with my drink. Heck, it happens at high school games (in my experience).

It's probably a carry over of those lovely TSA security rules that you probably are well aware of.

As for the other scenario, I don't have familiarity with the layout to comment. I will know that I've been at stadiums where ushers will make sure no one is standing in the typically narrow halls from the concourse to the seats/stairs. If this is anything like what you've said, it's not just a Rice thing.

For issue 1, I agree it is SOP. But its SOP at a major venue with demand - Rice is neither major, nor had much demand. So what can fly at the superbowl or a Katy HS game, isn't a valid modus operandi at Rice.

Rice allows a water bottle in as well. So this isn't a liquid issue just a by-the-book rigidness

For issue 2, this is where I was.


Inside the arena, but by the door. Not blocking anyone or anything.

I've also noticed this at HRS. One time, I was trying to stop by and say hi to some people and the usher was adamant I couldn't go there. And this was a normal section, not like I was waltzing into the press box.

There were maybe 3000 people at Rice Stadium, which made enforcing this absurd. Almost like the opening of Tudor when there were more black suit security guards than fans.

Why are we spending money on this? Who benefits?

Being fan friendly is not something that Rice has ever done, or seemed to care about.

#1, There should be a corollary to Godwin's Law for hysterically overwrought allusions to Communists.

#2, The solution to this problem (if it may be called that, which it really shouldn't be) is not to have Rice start acting even more small-time and bush league than it already does in many respects, and just go totally laissez-faire about even basic sporting-event practices.

#3, The solution is to sneak your contraband past the ushers, campos, whomever, just like we all did as students many times.

I'll grant that coffee can be tricky to sneak in...

Should’ve gone full-on Dave Portnoy at the Super Bowl. Go limp and make them drag you out.

(02-04-2019 11:47 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  #2, The solution to this problem (if it may be called that, which it really shouldn't be) is not to have Rice start acting even more small-time and bush league than it already does in many respects, and just go totally laissez-faire about even basic sporting-event practices.

This is predicated on a singular modus of operation. If x= sporting event, then y, when in reality, the ability to adapt and flex to your environment is crucial. By this metric, Costco should adopt the same customer practices of Walmart, and hope it works.

Similarly, since close in parking at UT costs a fortune, Rice should do the same. Tickets should be hundreds of dollars, completely inelastic of demand.

Nothing small time about common sense practices. We arent aTm. We arent UH. We aren't in demand and sold out. Why make life difficult for the few fans you have - when it costs you nothing?

Rice's attitude is akin to bean counters running an airline. My flight from LHR was delayed due to maintenance. 12 or so passengers were on a connecting flight onwards from DFW. But due to a focus on closing the door and hitting that perfect D0 departure, we got left behind by a matter of minutes. Resulting in the airline putting us all up at hotels, owing us compensation and taking 12 seats out of inventory, many up front, on subsequent flights.

They hit some arbitrary metric and lost money in the process. Similarly, Rice hit some rule out there, pissed someone off, gained nothing... but by god we felt big time doing so.

(02-05-2019 01:37 AM)Antarius Wrote:  Rice's attitude is akin to bean counters running an airline. My flight from LHR was delayed due to maintenance. 12 or so passengers were on a connecting flight onwards from DFW. But due to a focus on closing the door and hitting that perfect D0 departure, we got left behind by a matter of minutes. Resulting in the airline putting us all up at hotels, owing us compensation and taking 12 seats out of inventory, many up front, on subsequent flights.

They hit some arbitrary metric and lost money in the process. Similarly, Rice hit some rule out there, pissed someone off, gained nothing... but by god we felt big time doing so.

Sorry to be the old git in the corner with all the answers, but hold my beer…here goes…

So Heathrow was your departing airport and DFW was your gateway airport? You were connecting to another flight, but it’s not clear if it’s to a ‘hub’ or to a ‘spoke’. Big difference.

If to a ‘hub’ then a proportion of the passengers that did make that flight (x-12) would be put at risk of missing their connection. Probably “x” is a multiple of 12? A matter of minutes is a bit of an understatement (?) if any of the affected 12 had anything other than hand luggage. (On a flight from Heathrow that probability approaches zero unless they’re a courier or a drug mule.) Was the luggage checked in all the way to their destination? So you need to account for additional time for the luggage and it might be safe to assume that international arrival gates aren’t always proximal to internal departure gates. Also there’s the issue of take-off and landing slots. Are there potential additional fees/penalties to the airline? What about managing gate availability or the need to rearrange gates and luggage handling and catering and crew and staff for other subsequent flights?

To a ‘spoke’ then less of a problem, but still a problem for maintaining the aforementioned take-off slot at DFW and the arrival slot at Airport X and any potential fees/penalties (?) and any affected logistics.

Now let’s look at the costs to the airline. From the airline’s perspective everything is about availability and limiting out-of-pocket costs. Note that airlines live and die on cash flow.

The airline will put you up in an available hotel room. Don’t look at the rack rate on the back of that door, but because that’s not what they pay. They have an arrangement with several hotels proximal to the airport. Often the airlines will try to use airport hotels with free shuttles to avoid taxi fares. The last time I got bumped off a flight the hotel room rack rate said $180 (and that was when money was worth something) and the bill I saw going to the airlines said $20. The vouchers for dinner and breakfast are also costed in similar fashion and of course they don’t include alcohol.

The consequent flight (on their airline) is based on availability. Their out-of-pocket cost is zero. Be nice to the airline personnel and try for an upgrade. First class is normally wide open on internal morning flights. If they need a reason to upgrade you suggest ‘mishandled customer’. (It’s worked for me.)

The compensation they gave you is unknown to me. In the old days you would receive a ‘free’ roundtrip ticket to anywhere in the continental US that the airline flew. The last time I was bumped off a flight I received a travel voucher for $300 for that airline. Again their out-of-pocket cost is zero. (If they gave you cash then you’re luckier than I ever was.)

The total out-of-pocket cost to the airlines so far is less than $50 assuming no cash compensation. Given I flew on 57’s, 67’s, MD80’s, L1011’s, etc.; you probably need to triple that cost to $150.

So, the estimated actual cost for 12 passengers is 12 x $150 (?) or $1800. Assume I’m 200% out and it’s still ‘only’ $5,400.

Now what did the airlines avoid that I haven’t mentioned…

Luggage. If you’re separated from your luggage it is effectively ‘lost’. To or from Heathrow and it will take days to recover, if ever. Excluding the black hole of Heathrow if the airline can confirm it’s on the next flight they will try and avoid anything beyond a courier charge to return your luggage to you. That charge is ‘infinitely’ variable. If you land at DFW you might live in Hurst or Hillsborough so radically different costs on face, but if they have an arrangement it may be at a fixed charge. My guess it’s north of $50 and probably twice that. If they can’t avoid compensation then the airline is out-of-pocket hundreds of dollars (and the courier fee when your luggage arrives). I think the Montreal Convention states it’s a maximum of about $1600(?) per person for international flights. It’s at least twice that for domestic flights. BA lost my ex-wife’s luggage and she spent less than $200. Needless to say they happily reimbursed her. Anything remotely reasonable will be paid: suit; shirt; tie; shoes; socks; trolleys; and toiletries to name a few. For women and anyone so predisposed be sure to add cosmetics. My ex-wife only bought two tops, a handbag, and a pair of sandals. Yes the airlines probably have insurance, but they’re probably self-insured. You’re also not compelled to claim against your own (travel) insurance. Obviously don’t double dip as that’s fraud.

So the potential cost of 12 domestic passengers separated from their luggage is 12 x (~$3200 x ?% + ~$100). It’s impossible to determine the 'actual' cost, but the maximum would be approximately $39,600. Assume “x” = 0.333 and the total projected cost would be about $14,000.

As you can see the airline's main consideration is keeping the luggage with the passengers ($5,400 < $14,000). And although they might have lost money they did effectively mitigate their potential losses.

And yes I’m a degreed and qualified accountant, but was never a bean counter (aka auditor). (I’m also a former straßekrieger.)

We need to ask the state troopers to allow a more lenient policy on speeding in less crowded areas. Of course if no other cars are around why in world would we need to stop at a red light. Assuming the intersection isn’t a very busy one no reason to stop just roll through...isn’t hurting anyone. Completely understand the argument about not being sold out blah blah blah but we all want to be big time. If the habits are allowed to be developed and suddenly the owls hit the big time I can hear it now. “I’ve always been able to bring in my coffee and stand over here. Now y’all have a crowd and think you’re big time.” I can’t stand stuffy ushers either but really it’s the rules. Those folks are just doing their jobs.

Yeah, I’m still worked up over that one time and my friends and I werethrown out of HRS for bringing a bottle of Wild Turkey into a football game - we were just trying to liven up the crowd!

I think those 20 fans in our section would have benefited greatly from our presence.

(02-05-2019 07:50 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(02-05-2019 01:37 AM)Antarius Wrote:  Rice's attitude is akin to bean counters running an airline. My flight from LHR was delayed due to maintenance. 12 or so passengers were on a connecting flight onwards from DFW. But due to a focus on closing the door and hitting that perfect D0 departure, we got left behind by a matter of minutes. Resulting in the airline putting us all up at hotels, owing us compensation and taking 12 seats out of inventory, many up front, on subsequent flights.

They hit some arbitrary metric and lost money in the process. Similarly, Rice hit some rule out there, pissed someone off, gained nothing... but by god we felt big time doing so.

Sorry to be the old git in the corner with all the answers, but hold my beer…here goes…

So Heathrow was your departing airport and DFW was your gateway airport? You were connecting to another flight, but it’s not clear if it’s to a ‘hub’ or to a ‘spoke’. Big difference.

If to a ‘hub’ then a proportion of the passengers that did make that flight (x-12) would be put at risk of missing their connection. Probably “x” is a multiple of 12? A matter of minutes is a bit of an understatement (?) if any of the affected 12 had anything other than hand luggage. (On a flight from Heathrow that probability approaches zero unless they’re a courier or a drug mule.) Was the luggage checked in all the way to their destination? So you need to account for additional time for the luggage and it might be safe to assume that international arrival gates aren’t always proximal to internal departure gates. Also there’s the issue of take-off and landing slots. Are there potential additional fees/penalties to the airline? What about managing gate availability or the need to rearrange gates and luggage handling and catering and crew and staff for other subsequent flights?

To a ‘spoke’ then less of a problem, but still a problem for maintaining the aforementioned take-off slot at DFW and the arrival slot at Airport X and any potential fees/penalties (?) and any affected logistics.

Now let’s look at the costs to the airline. From the airline’s perspective everything is about availability and limiting out-of-pocket costs. Note that airlines live and die on cash flow.

The airline will put you up in an available hotel room. Don’t look at the rack rate on the back of that door, but because that’s not what they pay. They have an arrangement with several hotels proximal to the airport. Often the airlines will try to use airport hotels with free shuttles to avoid taxi fares. The last time I got bumped off a flight the hotel room rack rate said $180 (and that was when money was worth something) and the bill I saw going to the airlines said $20. The vouchers for dinner and breakfast are also costed in similar fashion and of course they don’t include alcohol.

The consequent flight (on their airline) is based on availability. Their out-of-pocket cost is zero. Be nice to the airline personnel and try for an upgrade. First class is normally wide open on internal morning flights. If they need a reason to upgrade you suggest ‘mishandled customer’. (It’s worked for me.)

The compensation they gave you is unknown to me. In the old days you would receive a ‘free’ roundtrip ticket to anywhere in the continental US that the airline flew. The last time I was bumped off a flight I received a travel voucher for $300 for that airline. Again their out-of-pocket cost is zero. (If they gave you cash then you’re luckier than I ever was.)

The total out-of-pocket cost to the airlines so far is less than $50 assuming no cash compensation. Given I flew on 57’s, 67’s, MD80’s, L1011’s, etc.; you probably need to triple that cost to $150.

So, the estimated actual cost for 12 passengers is 12 x $150 (?) or $1800. Assume I’m 200% out and it’s still ‘only’ $5,400.

Now what did the airlines avoid that I haven’t mentioned…

Luggage. If you’re separated from your luggage it is effectively ‘lost’. To or from Heathrow and it will take days to recover, if ever. Excluding the black hole of Heathrow if the airline can confirm it’s on the next flight they will try and avoid anything beyond a courier charge to return your luggage to you. That charge is ‘infinitely’ variable. If you land at DFW you might live in Hurst or Hillsborough so radically different costs on face, but if they have an arrangement it may be at a fixed charge. My guess it’s north of $50 and probably twice that. If they can’t avoid compensation then the airline is out-of-pocket hundreds of dollars (and the courier fee when your luggage arrives). I think the Montreal Convention states it’s a maximum of about $1600(?) per person for international flights. It’s at least twice that for domestic flights. BA lost my ex-wife’s luggage and she spent less than $200. Needless to say they happily reimbursed her. Anything remotely reasonable will be paid: suit; shirt; tie; shoes; socks; trolleys; and toiletries to name a few. For women and anyone so predisposed be sure to add cosmetics. My ex-wife only bought two tops, a handbag, and a pair of sandals. Yes the airlines probably have insurance, but they’re probably self-insured. You’re also not compelled to claim against your own (travel) insurance. Obviously don’t double dip as that’s fraud.

So the potential cost of 12 domestic passengers separated from their luggage is 12 x (~$3200 x ?% + ~$100). It’s impossible to determine the 'actual' cost, but the maximum would be approximately $39,600. Assume “x” = 0.333 and the total projected cost would be about $14,000.

As you can see the airline's main consideration is keeping the luggage with the passengers ($5,400 < $14,000). And although they might have lost money they did effectively mitigate their potential losses.

And yes I’m a degreed and qualified accountant, but was never a bean counter (aka auditor). (I’m also a former straßekrieger.)

Trust me, do *not* go down the airline/airport/airplane tangent with Antarius in the room.

That is like leaving a 3/4 full bottle of Tres Generaciones on a bar at a party with me at it.

Nothing good can happen with either the former or latter.

(02-05-2019 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yeah, I’m still worked up over that one time and my friends and I werethrown out of HRS for bringing a bottle of Wild Turkey into a football game - we were just trying to liven up the crowd!

I think those 20 fans in our section would have benefited greatly from our presence.

Yea! It’s not like HRS sells liquor.

(02-05-2019 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yeah, I’m still worked up over that one time and my friends and I werethrown out of HRS for bringing a bottle of Wild Turkey into a football game - we were just trying to liven up the crowd!

I think those 20 fans in our section would have benefited greatly from our presence.

hahaha, i haven't had the turkey since college.

(02-04-2019 11:47 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  #1, There should be a corollary to Godwin's Law for hysterically overwrought allusions to Communists.

A close friend of mine is also a long time friend of Godwin, and friends on Facebook.

I have no idea how much energy I've spent over the years suppressing the urge to respond to every single one of Godwin's comments with "what are you, some sort of Nazi?"

Getting back to Ant's specific complaints:

1. I would guess the coffee thing is a generic effort to keep alcohol out.

2. The "move it on" incident might be from a a need to keep exits open in case of emergency.

Of course, either or both could be from a effort to hassle customers, and in particular Ant.

I remember the good ol' days, when we were greeted with a cool drink and a warm towel.

(02-05-2019 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yeah, I’m still worked up over that one time and my friends and I werethrown out of HRS for bringing a bottle of Wild Turkey into a football game - we were just trying to liven up the crowd!

I think those 20 fans in our section would have benefited greatly from our presence.

Nice strawman.

Anyways, looks like I'm the only one here who thinks Rice shouldn't make life hard for the few fans they have. Nothing says success like an empty stadium that followed some arbitrary rules... one might term such success as unprecedented.

Will reply to Mersey later. Appreciate the detailed response.

(02-05-2019 09:37 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Trust me, do *not* go down the airline/airport/airplane tangent with Antarius in the room.

That is like leaving a 3/4 full bottle of Tres Generaciones on a bar at a party with me at it.

Nothing good can happen with either the former or latter.

Not to worry. I might come second if I could see his overall airport experience, but on limited information the score is:
20 common airports
30 unique airports Antarius
52 unique airports MerseyOwl

(It's unfortunate for me that my ex only ever wanted to go to Spain on holiday and always the same place, Port de Pollença.)

I doubt Ant will ever see sight of YRL (Red Lake) or NWI (Norwich) and he can't fly into Mueller (Austin) or Stapleton (Denver). Of course I'll never see the Far East or India.