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banker Offline
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Post: #21
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.
02-04-2019 08:47 PM
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Marc Mensa Offline
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Post: #22
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 08:47 PM)banker Wrote:  Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.

if you'd like to pin the economic meltdown and subsequent bailout on him, then so be it.
02-04-2019 08:54 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #23
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 08:54 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:47 PM)banker Wrote:  Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.

if you'd like to pin the economic meltdown and subsequent bailout on him, then so be it.

dude, you got owned.

again................
02-04-2019 09:37 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #24
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 08:54 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:47 PM)banker Wrote:  Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.

if you'd like to pin the economic meltdown and subsequent bailout on him, then so be it.

Obama only gets partial credit for that debacle. The bailout part. Ford didn't need bailout money. What made them so different? How much did Solyndra get?

The economic meltdown part goes primarily to Dems such as Barney Frank ... he of the Dodd / Frank bill. Never a sound financial idea to pass a law requiring banks and other financial institutions to lend people money to buy a house when they can't repay the loan.
02-04-2019 10:32 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #25
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 10:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:54 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:47 PM)banker Wrote:  Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.

if you'd like to pin the economic meltdown and subsequent bailout on him, then so be it.

Obama only gets partial credit for that debacle. The bailout part. Ford didn't need bailout money. What made them so different? How much did Solyndra get?

The economic meltdown part goes primarily to Dems such as Barney Frank ... he of the Dodd / Frank bill. Never a sound financial idea to pass a law requiring banks and other financial institutions to lend people money to buy a house when they can't repay the loan.

I could write a book on the failed policies that led to the housing debacle, but you have to go all the way back to Clinton to see where it started. Bill wanted the American Dream to be shared by all and viewed home ownership as a big part of that. The problem was compounded by Bush II as he pushed further relaxation of underwriting standards for Freddie and Fannie and the requirements for banks to write a certain percentage of sub prime in order to access those quasi govt institutions.

People focus on the Wall Street side of it, but those guys were just taking advantage of bad policy.

On a side note, I believe we are starting another housing bubble. It's a good time to invest in home builder stocks to ride the wave.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 11:17 PM by banker.)
02-04-2019 11:08 PM
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Marc Mensa Offline
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Post: #26
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 10:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:54 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:47 PM)banker Wrote:  Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.

if you'd like to pin the economic meltdown and subsequent bailout on him, then so be it.

Obama only gets partial credit for that debacle. The bailout part. Ford didn't need bailout money. What made them so different? How much did Solyndra get?

The economic meltdown part goes primarily to Dems such as Barney Frank ... he of the Dodd / Frank bill. Never a sound financial idea to pass a law requiring banks and other financial institutions to lend people money to buy a house when they can't repay the loan.

The bailout was bipartisan and signed by George Bush in 2008.
https://www.thebalance.com/what-was-the-...ll-3305675

The loan program utilized by Solyndra is now actually profitable.
https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Ge...profitable
02-04-2019 11:53 PM
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Marc Mensa Offline
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Post: #27
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 11:08 PM)banker Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 10:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:54 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 08:47 PM)banker Wrote:  Hey Mensa, what's the annual interest expense on the $10 trillion in debt added during the Obama administration? Well, 10-year treasuries are yielding 2.7%. What's 2.7% of ten trillion dollars? Oh, that's right, it's $270 billion. Also, Trump is paying an extra $150 billion on the ten trillion that was already on the books before Obama. So interest cost alone is up $420 billion from 2016, which means that Trump is sitting over a smaller deficit than Obama even with the tax cut.

if you'd like to pin the economic meltdown and subsequent bailout on him, then so be it.

Obama only gets partial credit for that debacle. The bailout part. Ford didn't need bailout money. What made them so different? How much did Solyndra get?

The economic meltdown part goes primarily to Dems such as Barney Frank ... he of the Dodd / Frank bill. Never a sound financial idea to pass a law requiring banks and other financial institutions to lend people money to buy a house when they can't repay the loan.

I could write a book on the failed policies that led to the housing debacle, but you have to go all the way back to Clinton to see where it started. Bill wanted the American Dream to be shared by all and viewed home ownership as a big part of that. The problem was compounded by Bush II as he pushed further relaxation of underwriting standards for Freddie and Fannie and the requirements for banks to write a certain percentage of sub prime in order to access those quasi govt institutions.

People focus on the Wall Street side of it, but those guys were just taking advantage of bad policy.

On a side note, I believe we are starting another housing bubble. It's a good time to invest in home builder stocks to ride the wave.

Those guys were the ones writing the majority of the bad paper, and the mortgage banks they propped up are long gone. They weren't bound by CRA and were free to loan to who they pleased... and had plenty of money to dole out in most stable investment in the world. The idea we bailed these crooks out is criminal.
02-05-2019 12:04 AM
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Post: #28
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
and if you spent more than 2 seconds educating yourself, you'd know that this has been projected for the past 4 years at least as part of the Obama budget.... particularly the ACA
02-05-2019 01:03 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #29
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
and if you spent more than 2 seconds educating yourself.........

Failures have many fathers

On a side note.

Before posting on social media T H I N K

Is it T rue

Is it H onest

Is it I Inspiring. Can you change a mind?

Is it N ecessary.

Is it K ind.

Best Leadership advice I was ever given. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Never ask someone to do something that you yourself are not willing to do also.
02-05-2019 07:26 AM
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appst89 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-05-2019 07:26 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and if you spent more than 2 seconds educating yourself.........

Failures have many fathers

On a side note.

Before posting on social media T H I N K

Is it T rue

Is it H onest

Is it I Inspiring. Can you change a mind?

Is it N ecessary.

Is it K ind.

Best Leadership advice I was ever given. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Never ask someone to do something that you yourself are not willing to do also.

Maybe you should try following that cute little mnemonic.
02-05-2019 07:38 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #31
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-05-2019 07:38 AM)appst89 Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 07:26 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and if you spent more than 2 seconds educating yourself.........

Failures have many fathers

On a side note.

Before posting on social media T H I N K

Is it T rue

Is it H onest

Is it I Inspiring. Can you change a mind?

Is it N ecessary.

Is it K ind.

Best Leadership advice I was ever given. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Never ask someone to do something that you yourself are not willing to do also.

Maybe you should try following that cute little mnemonic.

It's never too late to do the right thing....................
02-05-2019 07:40 AM
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Post: #32
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 07:15 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 06:56 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 06:36 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 06:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:10 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  You seem to have an issue understanding the difference (especially in timing ) of "debt" and of "deficit".

Not an problem at all... our annual deficit has increased, reversing the trend of years of declining annual deficits.


Cute math coming up with that one.

Revenues, as percent of GDP, dropped in 2018 from 17.2 to 16.4. That is, quite frankly, the worst number since 2012.

You are not qualified to talk debt and deficits regarding this country.

If you were you would note how Obama left this president with the worst debt in history and just paying on the interest of that huge sum of money is substantial.

If you were you would be strongly against the influx of illegal immigrants coming into the country and be fully supportive of everything required (wall, electronics, increased border patrol personnel, etc.) to stop the flood. You do know that illegal immigration costs this country billions of dollars every year, right? And it doesn't stop from one year to the next as long as they are still here.

Oh he knows, believe it, he knows. He just doesn't care about anything that doesn't fit his agenda. He may be the most partisan hack here, among some damn strong hacks.
02-05-2019 07:54 AM
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Post: #33
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 04:21 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Ronald Reagan showed us... deficits don’t matter.

Reagan was trying to win the cold war.

Barry was trying to "remake" America - ie: turn it socialist.
02-05-2019 07:54 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Post: #34
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 04:29 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Remember when the left complained about the deficit under oblunder? yeah, neither do I... 07-coffee3

But Obama's spending was "good" spending.

Evil Orange man's is BAD....
02-05-2019 07:55 AM
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Post: #35
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-05-2019 07:26 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and if you spent more than 2 seconds educating yourself.........

Failures have many fathers

On a side note.

Before posting on social media T H I N K

Is it T rue

Is it H onest

Is it I Inspiring. Can you change a mind?

Is it N ecessary.

Is it K ind.

Best Leadership advice I was ever given. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Never ask someone to do something that you yourself are not willing to do also.

Aint that cute! If you have to run down a checklist of things before you open your mouth or hit the enter key I'd say you have issues organizing your thoughts and are far too concerned with offending others. I'd also say that under those constraints you rarely ever get to say what's actually on your mind, you know, fake stuff is all you have.
02-05-2019 07:59 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #36
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
Krugman opinion on National Debt.

Howard Schultz, the coffee billionaire, who imagined that he could attract broad support as a “centrist,” turns out to have an approval rating of 4 percent, versus 40 percent disapproval.

Ralph Northam, a Democrat who won the governorship of Virginia in a landslide, is facing a firestorm of denunciation from his own party over racist images on his medical school yearbook page.

Donald Trump, who ran on promises to expand health care and raise taxes on the rich, began betraying his working-class supporters the moment he took office, pushing through big tax cuts for the rich while trying to take health coverage away from millions.

These are, it turns out, related stories, all of them tied to the two great absences in American political life.


One is the absence of socially liberal, economically conservative voters. These were the people Schultz thought he could appeal to; but basically they don’t exist, accounting for only around, yes, 4 percent of the electorate.

The other is the absence of economically liberal, socially conservative politicians — let’s be blunt and just say “racist populists.” There are plenty of voters who would like that mix, and Trump pretended to be their man; but he wasn’t, and neither is anyone else.

Understanding these empty quarters is, I’d argue, the key to understanding U.S. politics.

Once upon a time there were racist populists in Congress: The New Deal coalition relied on a large contingent of segregationist Dixiecrats. But this was always unstable. In practice, advocating economic inclusion seems to spill over into advocacy of racial and social inclusion, too. By the 1940s, Northern Democrats were already more pro-civil rights than Northern Republicans, and as the Northam affair shows, the party now has very little tolerance for even the appearance of racism.

Meanwhile, the modern Republican Party is all about cutting taxes on the rich and benefits for the poor and the middle class. And Trump, despite his campaign posturing, has turned out to be no different.

Hence the failure of our political system to serve socially conservative/racist voters who also want to tax the rich and preserve Social Security. Democrats won’t ratify their racism; Republicans, who have no such compunctions, will — remember, the party establishment solidly backed Roy Moore’s Senate bid — but won’t protect the programs they depend on.

But why are there so few voters holding the reverse position, combining social/racial liberalism and economic conservatism? The answer, I’d argue, lies in just how far to the right the G.O.P. has gone.

Polling is unambiguous here. If you define the “center” as a position somewhere between those of the two parties, when it comes to economic issues the public is overwhelmingly left of center; if anything, it’s to the left of the Democrats. Tax cuts for the rich are the G.O.P.’s defining policy, but two-thirds of voters believe that taxes on the rich are actually too low, while only 7 percent believe that they’re too high. Voters support Elizabeth Warren’s proposed tax on large fortunes by a three-to-one majority. Only a small minority want to see cuts in Medicaid, even though such cuts have been central to every G.O.P. health care proposal in recent years.

Why did Republicans stake out a position so far from voters’ preferences? Because they could. As Democrats became the party of civil rights, the G.O.P. could attract working-class whites by catering to their social and racial illiberalism, even while pursuing policies that hurt ordinary workers.

The result is that to be an economic conservative in America means advocating policies that, on their merits, only appeal to a small elite. Basically nobody wants these policies on their own; they only sell if they’re packaged with racial hostility.

So what do the empty quarters of U.S. politics mean for the future? First, of course, that Schultz is a fool — and so are those who dream of a reformed G.O.P. that remains conservative but drops its association with racists. There’s hardly anyone who wants that mix of positions.

Second, fears that Democrats are putting their electoral prospects in danger by moving too far left, for example by proposing higher taxes on the rich and Medicare expansion, are grossly exaggerated. Voters want an economic move to the left — it’s just that some of them dislike Democratic support for civil rights, which the party can’t drop without losing its soul.

What’s less clear is whether there’s room for politicians willing to be true racist populists, unlike Trump, who was faking the second part. There’s a substantial bloc of racist-populist voters, and you might think that someone would try to serve them. But maybe the gravitational attraction of big money — which has completely captured the G.O.P., and has arguably kept Democrats from moving as far left as the electorate really wants — is too great.

In any case, if there’s a real opening for an independent, that candidate will look more like George Wallace than like Howard Schultz. Billionaires who despise the conventional parties should beware of what they wish for.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.


Paul Krugman has been an Opinion columnist since 2000 and is also a Distinguished Professor at the City University of New York Graduate Center. He won the 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his work on international trade and economic geography. @PaulKrugman

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/opini...e=Homepage
02-05-2019 08:00 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #37
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-05-2019 07:59 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 07:26 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and if you spent more than 2 seconds educating yourself.........

Failures have many fathers

On a side note.

Before posting on social media T H I N K

Is it T rue

Is it H onest

Is it I Inspiring. Can you change a mind?

Is it N ecessary.

Is it K ind.

Best Leadership advice I was ever given. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Never ask someone to do something that you yourself are not willing to do also.

Aint that cute! If you have to run down a checklist of things before you open your mouth or hit the enter key I'd say you have issues organizing your thoughts and are far too concerned with offending others. I'd also say that under those constraints you rarely ever get to say what's actually on your mind, you know, fake stuff is all you have.

You seem angry? Are you ok?
02-05-2019 08:01 AM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #38
National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-05-2019 08:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Krugman opinion on National Debt.

Howard Schultz, the coffee billionaire, who imagined that he could attract broad support as a “centrist,” turns out to have an approval rating of 4 percent, versus 40 percent disapproval.

Ralph Northam, a Democrat who won the governorship of Virginia in a landslide, is facing a firestorm of denunciation from his own party over racist images on his medical school yearbook page.

Donald Trump, who ran on promises to expand health care and raise taxes on the rich, began betraying his working-class supporters the moment he took office, pushing through big tax cuts for the rich while trying to take health coverage away from millions.

These are, it turns out, related stories, all of them tied to the two great absences in American political life.


One is the absence of socially liberal, economically conservative voters. These were the people Schultz thought he could appeal to; but basically they don’t exist, accounting for only around, yes, 4 percent of the electorate.

The other is the absence of economically liberal, socially conservative politicians — let’s be blunt and just say “racist populists.” There are plenty of voters who would like that mix, and Trump pretended to be their man; but he wasn’t, and neither is anyone else.

Understanding these empty quarters is, I’d argue, the key to understanding U.S. politics.

Once upon a time there were racist populists in Congress: The New Deal coalition relied on a large contingent of segregationist Dixiecrats. But this was always unstable. In practice, advocating economic inclusion seems to spill over into advocacy of racial and social inclusion, too. By the 1940s, Northern Democrats were already more pro-civil rights than Northern Republicans, and as the Northam affair shows, the party now has very little tolerance for even the appearance of racism.

Meanwhile, the modern Republican Party is all about cutting taxes on the rich and benefits for the poor and the middle class. And Trump, despite his campaign posturing, has turned out to be no different.

Hence the failure of our political system to serve socially conservative/racist voters who also want to tax the rich and preserve Social Security. Democrats won’t ratify their racism; Republicans, who have no such compunctions, will — remember, the party establishment solidly backed Roy Moore’s Senate bid — but won’t protect the programs they depend on.

But why are there so few voters holding the reverse position, combining social/racial liberalism and economic conservatism? The answer, I’d argue, lies in just how far to the right the G.O.P. has gone.

Polling is unambiguous here. If you define the “center” as a position somewhere between those of the two parties, when it comes to economic issues the public is overwhelmingly left of center; if anything, it’s to the left of the Democrats. Tax cuts for the rich are the G.O.P.’s defining policy, but two-thirds of voters believe that taxes on the rich are actually too low, while only 7 percent believe that they’re too high. Voters support Elizabeth Warren’s proposed tax on large fortunes by a three-to-one majority. Only a small minority want to see cuts in Medicaid, even though such cuts have been central to every G.O.P. health care proposal in recent years.

Why did Republicans stake out a position so far from voters’ preferences? Because they could. As Democrats became the party of civil rights, the G.O.P. could attract working-class whites by catering to their social and racial illiberalism, even while pursuing policies that hurt ordinary workers.

The result is that to be an economic conservative in America means advocating policies that, on their merits, only appeal to a small elite. Basically nobody wants these policies on their own; they only sell if they’re packaged with racial hostility.

So what do the empty quarters of U.S. politics mean for the future? First, of course, that Schultz is a fool — and so are those who dream of a reformed G.O.P. that remains conservative but drops its association with racists. There’s hardly anyone who wants that mix of positions.

Second, fears that Democrats are putting their electoral prospects in danger by moving too far left, for example by proposing higher taxes on the rich and Medicare expansion, are grossly exaggerated. Voters want an economic move to the left — it’s just that some of them dislike Democratic support for civil rights, which the party can’t drop without losing its soul.

What’s less clear is whether there’s room for politicians willing to be true racist populists, unlike Trump, who was faking the second part. There’s a substantial bloc of racist-populist voters, and you might think that someone would try to serve them. But maybe the gravitational attraction of big money — which has completely captured the G.O.P., and has arguably kept Democrats from moving as far left as the electorate really wants — is too great.

In any case, if there’s a real opening for an independent, that candidate will look more like George Wallace than like Howard Schultz. Billionaires who despise the conventional parties should beware of what they wish for.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.


Paul Krugman has been an Opinion columnist since 2000 and is also a Distinguished Professor at the City University of New York Graduate Center. He won the 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his work on international trade and economic geography. @PaulKrugman

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/opini...e=Homepage


There’s so much duplicitous stupidity in there I can’t even begin to address it all.

But, just to say- Krugman? Really?

Still hanging your hat on that dummy? Was Robert Reich not available?!?
02-05-2019 08:19 AM
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SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #39
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
And the democrats running in 2020 aim to double that 20 trillion in ONE YEAR with their Santa Claus give aways? Do we hear any leftist on here condemning that farce. I’m listening. No.....
02-05-2019 08:41 AM
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Post: #40
RE: National Debt - Now up over $2T under trump in 2 years
(02-04-2019 04:29 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Remember when the left complained about the deficit under oblunder? yeah, neither do I... 07-coffee3

Well, this thread is about the national debt, which is not the deficit.

And no, I don't particularly remember the left complaining about the debt under Obama, but I sure as hell remember the right complaining about it...so where are they now? 01-wingedeagle
02-05-2019 09:24 AM
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