(02-04-2019 04:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 04:16 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 04:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 03:53 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 03:26 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  That was my thinking exactly. I've been putting everything in ROTH's for the last 10 years and plan on converting most of my other 401's to ROTH's in the next few years.

With our inability to quit spending, taxes will have to go up along with spending cuts.

Also knowing how the government mind works, I'm sure that in a matter of years, they'll decide that anyone who was able to "save" and "put away" for retirement MUST be "rich" and therefore should pay more taxes.


Sorry, I've already paid mine, thanks.....

Yeah, it won't work that way. If the left makes the argument that capital gains growing tax free is immoral and you aren't paying your fair share, the rules can be dismantled just as they were put in place.

They have ~$100 trillion in programs they need funded. Scrapping rules for Roth IRAs so they can get their hands on that money will be child's play.

To use Badger's idiom you can bet the farm on that. Under Obama's first administration Cas Sunstein was working on a plan to ameliorate your 401K with SSI payments. The net effect would be that everyone would have essentially pulled down the same amount between SSI and your IRA. If your IRA paid more it would lessen or negate your SSI.

So if you want to know where the left wants to get more money for their giveaway programs to buy votes, there is one of their solutions that hasn't been implemented yet. Obama put that on the back burner until he got his AFA passed. The Affordable Care Act was going to be the left jab to the citizen's jaw and the SSI reform that reduced it by the payout of your 401K or 403B was going to be the right hook to finish you off so his new fascist state could be formed. Why fascist? Because business, not government per se, would control the wealth, as the government socialized the middle class to the lower class to create a permanent underbelly of wage earners and to cement the corporate class in place. That is the essence of a fascist government. Hitler would not have existed if it were not for Willie Messerschmitt & Daimler Benz & Heinkel and some of the German banks. The only difference would have been that Obama moved to that form of socialism (and fascism is socialistic) off of the backs of the middle class while Hitler did it by victimizing the Jews and seizing their assets.

In a move to fascism you need a group with wealth to exploit. Those will be your victims. The uber wealthy will be the funding of the putsch, those being robbed the victim, and the working class will be glorified to appeal to their pride even though their plight will not effectively be that much better. The rich get richer and they use that keep power.

Precisely. I started a Roth a few years ago, but have slowed putting money into it, because I have that same concern, that I will be punished for saving and my social security will be given to someone else who didn't save to make it "fair".

I'd rather just keep it in a brokerage account, and pay taxes on the dividends. At these after that, I know those assets are mine.

Betting on a benefit that may or (infinitely more likely) may not be in the tax code 40 years from now is a fool's errand, in my opinion.

Nah, I wouldn't worry about that. They might cut off new ira/401k investments, but they've always taken extra care to ensure that average investors don't get screwed for past decisions.

They might end up going after the billionaires. But I don't think this country will ever go after the Kulaks like the USSR did.

You’re wrong. They have a wish list of ~$100 trillion, and “going after billionaires” nets them a few tril. Everything they start with billionaires will trickle down to the middle class.

Billionaires also don’t have Roth IRAs.

(02-04-2019 04:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 04:16 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 04:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 03:53 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 03:26 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  That was my thinking exactly. I've been putting everything in ROTH's for the last 10 years and plan on converting most of my other 401's to ROTH's in the next few years.

With our inability to quit spending, taxes will have to go up along with spending cuts.

Also knowing how the government mind works, I'm sure that in a matter of years, they'll decide that anyone who was able to "save" and "put away" for retirement MUST be "rich" and therefore should pay more taxes.


Sorry, I've already paid mine, thanks.....

Yeah, it won't work that way. If the left makes the argument that capital gains growing tax free is immoral and you aren't paying your fair share, the rules can be dismantled just as they were put in place.

They have ~$100 trillion in programs they need funded. Scrapping rules for Roth IRAs so they can get their hands on that money will be child's play.

To use Badger's idiom you can bet the farm on that. Under Obama's first administration Cas Sunstein was working on a plan to ameliorate your 401K with SSI payments. The net effect would be that everyone would have essentially pulled down the same amount between SSI and your IRA. If your IRA paid more it would lessen or negate your SSI.

So if you want to know where the left wants to get more money for their giveaway programs to buy votes, there is one of their solutions that hasn't been implemented yet. Obama put that on the back burner until he got his AFA passed. The Affordable Care Act was going to be the left jab to the citizen's jaw and the SSI reform that reduced it by the payout of your 401K or 403B was going to be the right hook to finish you off so his new fascist state could be formed. Why fascist? Because business, not government per se, would control the wealth, as the government socialized the middle class to the lower class to create a permanent underbelly of wage earners and to cement the corporate class in place. That is the essence of a fascist government. Hitler would not have existed if it were not for Willie Messerschmitt & Daimler Benz & Heinkel and some of the German banks. The only difference would have been that Obama moved to that form of socialism (and fascism is socialistic) off of the backs of the middle class while Hitler did it by victimizing the Jews and seizing their assets.

In a move to fascism you need a group with wealth to exploit. Those will be your victims. The uber wealthy will be the funding of the putsch, those being robbed the victim, and the working class will be glorified to appeal to their pride even though their plight will not effectively be that much better. The rich get richer and they use that keep power.

Precisely. I started a Roth a few years ago, but have slowed putting money into it, because I have that same concern, that I will be punished for saving and my social security will be given to someone else who didn't save to make it "fair".

I'd rather just keep it in a brokerage account, and pay taxes on the dividends. At these after that, I know those assets are mine.

Betting on a benefit that may or (infinitely more likely) may not be in the tax code 40 years from now is a fool's errand, in my opinion.

Nah, I wouldn't worry about that. They might cut off new ira/401k investments, but they've always taken extra care to ensure that average investors don't get screwed for past decisions.

They might end up going after the billionaires. But I don't think this country will ever go after the Kulaks like the USSR did.

As one who had a 403B annuitized after the fact, I'd say everyone should be pretty damned worried about all of it. Sunstein's plans were exactly after what I stated. The concept was on the table.

When it comes to a government that is 21 Trillion in debt, and the government is incorporated, I wouldn't take anything for granted. Roosevelt's government confiscation of Gold stands as a stark reminder for those with a memory.