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(02-06-2019 10:15 AM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  People are funny. On one hand they complain that Carver gets too many minutes because he’s a detriment to the team when he’s on the floor; yet on the other hand a young man who it has been said is less prepared (albeit probably more talented) should be getting more PT.

Reece is bery talented. But some players are more college ready than others. Some dont grasp the new concepts like rotations as soon as others. Reece is raw but talented.

Of course, if he doesnt play right away, people want to label him a bust.

(02-06-2019 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Sorry to derail the conversation but does anyone know if Kalu has been practicing? Expected to play tomorrow?

Yes and yes. Not my report, it was stated earlier in the depths of the thread somewhere.

Actually, don't know about practicing. It was stated he was "running" and expected to play.

(02-06-2019 10:15 AM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  People are funny. On one hand they complain that Carver gets too many minutes because he’s a detriment to the team when he’s on the floor; yet on the other hand a young man who it has been said is less prepared (albeit probably more talented) should be getting more PT.

I knew there would be someone who would try to overstate my comment to take their best straw man swipe. You are the winner!

To summarize my actual point for you, I just said it is hard to imagine that he is not good enough to EVER see the court. I explicitly said that did not mean he should play every game or even every other game. I also, in no way, tied his minutes to taking away minutes from Carver.

Please respond to what people actually post going forward, rather than distorting their comments into something that you can use to create a barely tangential attack.

It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

(02-06-2019 10:52 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Sorry to derail the conversation but does anyone know if Kalu has been practicing? Expected to play tomorrow?

Yes and yes. Not my report, it was stated earlier in the depths of the thread somewhere.

Actually, don't know about practicing. It was stated he was "running" and expected to play.

Thanks. Good news.

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

Little bit of an update on injuries in this article

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/o...eadcf.html

(02-06-2019 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 10:15 AM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  People are funny. On one hand they complain that Carver gets too many minutes because he’s a detriment to the team when he’s on the floor; yet on the other hand a young man who it has been said is less prepared (albeit probably more talented) should be getting more PT.

I knew there would be someone who would try to overstate my comment to take their best straw man swipe. You are the winner!

To summarize my actual point for you, I just said it is hard to imagine that he is not good enough to EVER see the court. I explicitly said that did not mean he should play every game or even every other game. I also, in no way, tied his minutes to taking away minutes from Carver.

Please respond to what people actually post going forward, rather than distorting their comments into something that you can use to create a barely tangential attack.

My post was not directed to you. I did not quote you, nor did I mention you. I have read posts in other threads where people have complained about Caver getting too many minutes, and some here where people have complained about Reece (a less prepared player by most accounts) getting to few. I in no way distorted your comments, but I was merely noting the incongruity of the two ideas.

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

I don't completely disagree, but to play devil's advocate...

Different kids need different approaches. I can see where getting maximum effort from a kid who feels like there is no chance he is ever going to get in the game...ever, may be difficult. At the end of the day, a coach needs to have one eye toward the future, and losing players before they ever see the floor, or not giving valuable game minutes because they aren't where you want them YET, may be the right thing in the moment, but may not be the best thing in the long run. Again, not saying he should get any kind of consistent minutes, but finding a spot to insert him occasionally when you don't think it will hurt the team doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Every coach has their approach, but there are other ways to look at things than just JJ's way.

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

This alludes to some of it. Jones has stated several times that he's had trouble trying to figure out a way to use a 9 man rotation. And in that 9, Reece is behind Kalu, BJ, Ezikpe, Carver, Dickens, and Robinson at the 4/5 spot rotation.

(02-06-2019 11:56 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

I don't completely disagree, but to play devil's advocate...

Different kids need different approaches. I can see where getting maximum effort from a kid who feels like there is no chance he is ever going to get in the game...ever, may be difficult. At the end of the day, a coach needs to have one eye toward the future, and losing players before they ever see the floor, or not giving valuable game minutes because they aren't where you want them YET, may be the right thing in the moment, but may not be the best thing in the long run. Again, not saying he should get any kind of consistent minutes, but finding a spot to insert him occasionally when you don't think it will hurt the team doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Every coach has their approach, but there are other ways to look at things than just JJ's way.

If we had the number of blowouts that we had last year, you probably would have seen him more.

By the way, Kalu is expected to practice today and be ready to play tomorrow.

(02-06-2019 12:05 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we had the number of blowouts that we had last year, you probably would have seen him more.

Is the USM game not considered a blowout?

(02-06-2019 12:23 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 12:05 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we had the number of blowouts that we had last year, you probably would have seen him more.

Is the USM game not considered a blowout?

Of course, thats pretty much the only one and they didn't empty the bench for whatever reason.

(02-06-2019 11:56 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

I don't completely disagree, but to play devil's advocate...

Different kids need different approaches. I can see where getting maximum effort from a kid who feels like there is no chance he is ever going to get in the game...ever, may be difficult. At the end of the day, a coach needs to have one eye toward the future, and losing players before they ever see the floor, or not giving valuable game minutes because they aren't where you want them YET, may be the right thing in the moment, but may not be the best thing in the long run. Again, not saying he should get any kind of consistent minutes, but finding a spot to insert him occasionally when you don't think it will hurt the team doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Every coach has their approach, but there are other ways to look at things than just JJ's way.

Here's another way to look at it: The university has fulfilled its obligation to the player by putting him full scholarship, by letting him or her know what is expected of him/her. At that point, it's up to the player to handle things 1 of 3 ways: 1) He goes the Hueitt route and doesn't work, pouts, and expects something for nothing, 2) He goes the Godwin route, does what is expected of him, works to get better at his weaknesses and earns some playing time, or 3) works, but isn't to the point where he's earned time over someone else. . . . I don't know the first thing about Reece and I'm not about to speculate which of those 3 categories he falls. At this level, nothing is promised you outside of a scholly; the rest is on you. And to put someone in the game who hasn't earned time or isn't ready for it just because you're way ahead is asinine and defeats anything you're trying to teach. Some of you want the inmates to run the asylum, a recipe for disaster and mutiny.

That post right there sums it up perfectly. ^^^^

(02-06-2019 12:36 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:56 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

I don't completely disagree, but to play devil's advocate...

Different kids need different approaches. I can see where getting maximum effort from a kid who feels like there is no chance he is ever going to get in the game...ever, may be difficult. At the end of the day, a coach needs to have one eye toward the future, and losing players before they ever see the floor, or not giving valuable game minutes because they aren't where you want them YET, may be the right thing in the moment, but may not be the best thing in the long run. Again, not saying he should get any kind of consistent minutes, but finding a spot to insert him occasionally when you don't think it will hurt the team doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Every coach has their approach, but there are other ways to look at things than just JJ's way.

Here's another way to look at it: The university has fulfilled its obligation to the player by putting him full scholarship, by letting him or her know what is expected of him/her. At that point, it's up to the player to handle things 1 of 3 ways: 1) He goes the Hueitt route and doesn't work, pouts, and expects something for nothing, 2) He goes the Godwin route, does what is expected of him, works to get better at his weaknesses and earns some playing time, or 3) works, but isn't to the point where he's earned time over someone else. . . . I don't know the first thing about Reece and I'm not about to speculate which of those 3 categories he falls. At this level, nothing is promised you outside of a scholly; the rest is on you. And to put someone in the game who hasn't earned time or isn't ready for it just because you're way ahead is asinine and defeats anything you're trying to teach. Some of you want the inmates to run the asylum, a recipe for disaster and mutiny.

I won't argue that your thoughts are not one way to look at things. I just think there is another school that individualizes the approach to kids a little more and that offers a little bit of carrot with the stick that you are obviously fond of.

Is Reece going to end up being the same end result as Kah was ... i.e. highly touted recruit on our forum that hardly ever got playing time and left? Personally, I hope not.

(02-06-2019 01:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 12:36 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:56 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:31 AM)Blue Moon Rising Wrote:  It can't be a lack of talent keeping him off the court at all cost. I would be willing to bet it is another "doghouse" case! Seems like that doghouse runs a lot of our players away? But its JJ's team and its my way or the highway!

It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

I don't completely disagree, but to play devil's advocate...

Different kids need different approaches. I can see where getting maximum effort from a kid who feels like there is no chance he is ever going to get in the game...ever, may be difficult. At the end of the day, a coach needs to have one eye toward the future, and losing players before they ever see the floor, or not giving valuable game minutes because they aren't where you want them YET, may be the right thing in the moment, but may not be the best thing in the long run. Again, not saying he should get any kind of consistent minutes, but finding a spot to insert him occasionally when you don't think it will hurt the team doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Every coach has their approach, but there are other ways to look at things than just JJ's way.

Here's another way to look at it: The university has fulfilled its obligation to the player by putting him full scholarship, by letting him or her know what is expected of him/her. At that point, it's up to the player to handle things 1 of 3 ways: 1) He goes the Hueitt route and doesn't work, pouts, and expects something for nothing, 2) He goes the Godwin route, does what is expected of him, works to get better at his weaknesses and earns some playing time, or 3) works, but isn't to the point where he's earned time over someone else. . . . I don't know the first thing about Reece and I'm not about to speculate which of those 3 categories he falls. At this level, nothing is promised you outside of a scholly; the rest is on you. And to put someone in the game who hasn't earned time or isn't ready for it just because you're way ahead is asinine and defeats anything you're trying to teach. Some of you want the inmates to run the asylum, a recipe for disaster and mutiny.

I won't argue that your thoughts are not one way to look at things. I just think there is another school that individualizes the approach to kids a little more and that offers a little bit of carrot with the stick that you are obviously fond of.

Give me some examples of college coaches you know who espouse the individualized method. Does it happen at Duke, which has a bench full of 3*s? You think it happens at UVA? Michigan? Tech? ****, how about Buffalo, they're real good (this year). . . And I never said Jones treats everyone the same, just that I personally think one has to earn playing time, and I think that happens at every level of competitive sports. That doesn't mean you have to be a prick about it.

(02-06-2019 02:07 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 01:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 12:36 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:56 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-06-2019 11:45 AM)Nukesquad Wrote:  It's not a complete lack of talent. He's just that low on the depth chart, and JJ has not rotated more than 9 guys..and all the reports I hear is that he's not jumping over anybody anytime soon. I'm not sure what the "doghouse" scenario is, but from what I'm hearing is that is that he did not put in any effort the last few months to merit climbing the ranks. We can all sit here and say JJ is hard on players (which may be true at times), but what coach (at least the good ones) want players that don't want to put the work in.

I don't completely disagree, but to play devil's advocate...

Different kids need different approaches. I can see where getting maximum effort from a kid who feels like there is no chance he is ever going to get in the game...ever, may be difficult. At the end of the day, a coach needs to have one eye toward the future, and losing players before they ever see the floor, or not giving valuable game minutes because they aren't where you want them YET, may be the right thing in the moment, but may not be the best thing in the long run. Again, not saying he should get any kind of consistent minutes, but finding a spot to insert him occasionally when you don't think it will hurt the team doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Every coach has their approach, but there are other ways to look at things than just JJ's way.

Here's another way to look at it: The university has fulfilled its obligation to the player by putting him full scholarship, by letting him or her know what is expected of him/her. At that point, it's up to the player to handle things 1 of 3 ways: 1) He goes the Hueitt route and doesn't work, pouts, and expects something for nothing, 2) He goes the Godwin route, does what is expected of him, works to get better at his weaknesses and earns some playing time, or 3) works, but isn't to the point where he's earned time over someone else. . . . I don't know the first thing about Reece and I'm not about to speculate which of those 3 categories he falls. At this level, nothing is promised you outside of a scholly; the rest is on you. And to put someone in the game who hasn't earned time or isn't ready for it just because you're way ahead is asinine and defeats anything you're trying to teach. Some of you want the inmates to run the asylum, a recipe for disaster and mutiny.

I won't argue that your thoughts are not one way to look at things. I just think there is another school that individualizes the approach to kids a little more and that offers a little bit of carrot with the stick that you are obviously fond of.

Give me some examples of college coaches you know who espouse the individualized method. Does it happen at Duke, which has a bench full of 3*s? You think it happens at UVA? Michigan? Tech? ****, how about Buffalo, they're real good (this year). . . And I never said Jones treats everyone the same, just that I personally think one has to earn playing time, and I think that happens at every level of competitive sports. That doesn't mean you have to be a prick about it.

Easy there. Just presenting another point of view. And yes I believe there are examples of players who need to grow at other schools, Duke in particular. Hell, Marvin Bagley blatntly refused to even entertain the idea of playing defense in 80% of the possessions he was on the floor last season and the team was better when he was out for a period of time, yet he still played nearly the entire game, nearly every game last season. We have different perspectives. I think if a guy is talented enough, and there is potential there, you let him get on the court occasionally. If he excels and earns more time you give it to him. I don't think you bury a freshman who has talent because he has not yet gotten to where you want him. As stated previously, I also think you risk creating a self fulfilling prophecy when you decide a freshman is going to never play because he is not working at a level that that you want him to, and thereby create a situation that feels hopeless. Again, I prefer a little carrot with the stick. In short, if what you are doing with the kid isn't working, try something else.