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Opinion Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:40 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:20 PM)Crebman Wrote:  The governor, at the very least, stumbled all over himself in an interview and did an incredibly poor job of explaining himself. With that said, he was attempting to defend Delegate Tran that brought a bill to the delegates that would allow abortions up to 40 weeks (1 week beyond full term) based on the mothers physical OR MENTAL health.

She was asked: “ if a woman is dilating, does this law allow for abortions based on the mother’s physical or mental health?” After him hawing, her answer was “Yes”. Not the child’s, the mother’s...

Now, at minimum, the governor was trying to defend that!

I have never been one of those fervent anti-abortion people, but the above is infanticide no matter what kind of nice name you try and attach to what that law was going to allow.......

Very good summation. He was trying to take or make a medical excuse or rationale for this garbage. Apparently the sponsors of the infanticide on demand bills are running for the tall grass now. One claimed she signed on to sponsor the bill without even reading it (good governance there 07-coffee3) and the author now claims she "misspoke" in that exchange.

Odd to misspeak about your own bill... 03-banghead

This is why I am not enthused about Roe v. Wade being overturned. We will get a lot of vile Kevorkian Democrats with no regard for human life other than their own.

Let's keep in mind what Roe v. Wade gave us.

If fought for the mother's right to abort due to rape, incest, or her health. Convenience was not part of the argument due to the abhorrent picture that left in society's collective minds.

But today, the reasons given for aborting are:
<0.5% - Rape
3% - Fetal health
4% -Health problems
4% - Would interfere with education or career
7% - Not mature enough to raise a child
8% - Don't want to be a single mother
19% - Done having children
23% - Can't afford baby
25% - Not ready for baby
6% - Other


So rape and mother's health account for less than 4.5% of all abortions.


Point is: just because the law is intended as one thing (abortion legalized for rape, incest, life of mother) it often times is simply a strategy to get your foot in the door (or foot out of the womb in this case) for much more dire circumstances.

We don't know how this kill-the-baby-after-she's-born law will play out. Will it be challenged? Will it go to the SCOTUS?

Will it be the gateway by which the radleft does eventually grant state-sanctioned infanticide for, well heck, reasons like this:

Would interfere with education or career
Not mature enough to raise a child
Don't want to be a single mother
Done having children
Can't afford baby
Not ready for baby



BTW, per the UN only 9 countries in the world have higher abortion rates than the U.S.:
Bulgaria, Cuba, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Romania, Russia, Sweden, Ukraine

Those statistics are heartbreaking
02-04-2019 12:23 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:02 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 04:46 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  I don't understand how what he said is being confused with "baby killing". If a child is born with half a brain, it's spine outside of it's body, half a heart a decision has to be made how long do you wish to continue it's suffering while machines keep it alive. 3rd term abortions are disgusting, but that's not what is being discussed here. My wife is a NICU nurse and this is sadly something families have to go through often. It's not making a choice to kill your baby, it's making a choice to not continue their suffering for your own sake.

Exactly. I mentioned this in another thread, but many of us have had parents of family members dying of cancer or another horrible disease. If it is clear they will not survive without being in terrible agony or struggle, would you not at least want the option of being able to end their suffering?

You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 12:38 PM by JRsec.)
02-04-2019 12:37 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 11:46 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 11:21 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 04:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Absolutely ******* ridiculous and not representative whatsoever of the comments of the governor.

You people have no shame.

Will Someone Please Explain To Anti-Choice Idiots That Nobody's Killing Born Babies?

See how you used the bullying term "idiots" and then you were shown that the governor himself said the baby would be terminated after being born?

And then one of the Dems who voted for the bill stepped up and owned that she did not read the legislation claiming that she would have voted against it had she known.

Idiots, huh?

I call BS on the one saying she didnt read it and would have voted against it if she had

Actually, I have to agree with her.

She acknowledged that she voted for this not because she read it but because she was told the highlights by the sponsor. She stated that she would NOT have voted for it had she done her due diligence.

She also said she accepts any indignation by the voters that comes to her for not reading legislation before voting on it.


To me, it sounds like she admitted to something which puts her in an unfavorable light. She wasn't trying to make excuses.

That sounds like honesty rather than butt-saving.

I get that honesty from politicians is not the norm. We kinda don't know what to do with it.
02-04-2019 12:45 PM
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bobdizole Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:02 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 04:46 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  I don't understand how what he said is being confused with "baby killing". If a child is born with half a brain, it's spine outside of it's body, half a heart a decision has to be made how long do you wish to continue it's suffering while machines keep it alive. 3rd term abortions are disgusting, but that's not what is being discussed here. My wife is a NICU nurse and this is sadly something families have to go through often. It's not making a choice to kill your baby, it's making a choice to not continue their suffering for your own sake.

Exactly. I mentioned this in another thread, but many of us have had parents of family members dying of cancer or another horrible disease. If it is clear they will not survive without being in terrible agony or struggle, would you not at least want the option of being able to end their suffering?

You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.
02-04-2019 01:31 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/01/demo...democrats/
Democracy dies in Darkness.
Story talks about how the WaPo excluded key information on the VA abortion bill as well as the Governor's comments.

"...The common thread connecting these stories and others is the establishment media’s extreme reluctance to expose left-wing extremism, especially among elected Democrats or progressive leadership. If you are inclined toward optimism, you might conclude that at least the left’s late-term abortion and anti-Semitic factions are recognized by the media as sufficiently repellent that they cannot be covered neutrally or fairly without damaging the party. That is a very small silver lining to a very large, dark cloud.

These may not be instances in which the cover-ups are worse than the underlying scandals. But they are scandals of their own."
02-04-2019 01:44 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:02 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 04:46 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  I don't understand how what he said is being confused with "baby killing". If a child is born with half a brain, it's spine outside of it's body, half a heart a decision has to be made how long do you wish to continue it's suffering while machines keep it alive. 3rd term abortions are disgusting, but that's not what is being discussed here. My wife is a NICU nurse and this is sadly something families have to go through often. It's not making a choice to kill your baby, it's making a choice to not continue their suffering for your own sake.

Exactly. I mentioned this in another thread, but many of us have had parents of family members dying of cancer or another horrible disease. If it is clear they will not survive without being in terrible agony or struggle, would you not at least want the option of being able to end their suffering?

You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I was using a heavy dose of sarcasm here. Third trimester abortions which this
permits is the killing of a viable nearly mature fetus. It's murder. Once again there is a major difference between how the law is written and what the proponents say about it. It is without question another step in a cultural war by redefining life, adding the last 3 months to legal time frame for an abortion, which as pointed out by another poster is only utilized for the mother's health or the lack of viability of the fetus 4.5% out of all the other reason for abortions.

So with Roe v Wade we moved from no abortion to abortions through the 2nd trimester and now they want to take it to the third. There are all manner of issues surrounding this. It covers the doctors performing partial birth abortions, 3rd trimester abortions, it enhances the harvesting of fetal tissue, and it really defies the currently held, but already wholly debatable understanding of when life beings.

By extrapolating the decision to revive after the birth to infanticide plus a minute and then taking it to plus 45 years I was using logic and hyperbole to make a point. If we start killing babies after birth then at what point in time does that cease to be a viable option? Non viable fetuses are usually expelled by induced labor. Amniocentesis may be performed early enough to permit abortion by the 2nd trimester now. So a fetus that will be profoundly impaired may be determined soon enough to avoid these decisions in the 3rd trimester.

It is a cultural war and one that is focused in this case on the sanctity of life. It goes hand in hand with the lefts attacks on the founding fathers, upon the national anthem, upon redefining laws to add advantage to one group of people being attacked over that of another which is an assault on equal protection under the law which is seminal to our legal system. And it is an affront to our moral understanding of the sanctity of life. Lose that and we are all just spare parts and the precedent will have been established that if we are not sufficiently skilled, or can't remain viable, meaning we have become impaired, what difference in reasoning is there between terminating an infant under that rationale, or terminating a blind person, or an elderly person? There is none. Is that where you want to go? It sure as hell isn't where I want to see the country go!
02-04-2019 01:58 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:02 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 04:46 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  I don't understand how what he said is being confused with "baby killing". If a child is born with half a brain, it's spine outside of it's body, half a heart a decision has to be made how long do you wish to continue it's suffering while machines keep it alive. 3rd term abortions are disgusting, but that's not what is being discussed here. My wife is a NICU nurse and this is sadly something families have to go through often. It's not making a choice to kill your baby, it's making a choice to not continue their suffering for your own sake.

Exactly. I mentioned this in another thread, but many of us have had parents of family members dying of cancer or another horrible disease. If it is clear they will not survive without being in terrible agony or struggle, would you not at least want the option of being able to end their suffering?

You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.

I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.
02-04-2019 03:54 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:02 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Exactly. I mentioned this in another thread, but many of us have had parents of family members dying of cancer or another horrible disease. If it is clear they will not survive without being in terrible agony or struggle, would you not at least want the option of being able to end their suffering?

You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.

I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.

So, it was homicide when my mom chose to take my dad off life support? 03-confused
02-04-2019 04:17 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 04:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.

I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.

So, it was homicide when my mom chose to take my dad off life support? 03-confused

You can personalize it to make for dramatic effect.

But there are other factors in play. I assume this was a "legal" option. That doesn't make it moral.

Slavery was legal but it was not moral.

Was your father either in the hospital or under hospice care at the time?
02-04-2019 04:22 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 04:22 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 04:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.

I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.

So, it was homicide when my mom chose to take my dad off life support? 03-confused

You can personalize it to make for dramatic effect.

But there are other factors in play. I assume this was a "legal" option. That doesn't make it moral.

Slavery was legal but it was not moral.

Was your father either in the hospital or under hospice care at the time?

He was on life support with no hope at a meaningful recovery...like newborns from time to time. Both innocent and unable to make their wishes known. I don't want any government telling families how they should make these most difficult decisions. I hope to hell you don't believe any different. There's things our government should have NO say in!
02-04-2019 04:26 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 04:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 05:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  You liberals have been in dire suffering since Trump was elected. Do I also get that right to put you out of your misery? Or are we only applying this to infanticide?

Exactly what's the difference between infanticide at birth plus 1 minute, and at birth plus 45 years? In fact it might be argued that some of these babies at birth plus 45 years cause much more pain for their parents than at birth plus 1 minute. The infant might be the next Einstein but at birth plus 45 years we know for sure that they are just another useless mouth to feed that harms not only their parents but their siblings and everyone else. Take ANTIFA for instance.

I think you might have something here!

You see folks this is why logic still needs to be taught. Once you make the decision to murder a newborn what's the difference? You are just quibbling over the passage of time. You make this step and mass murder can be justified easily. The thing that pisses me off the most is that these jerks don't see just how much closer they are to a Hitler or Mao like genocide than any of the conservatives. It's why I said that this is a war. We aren't Democrats and Republicans arguing over economic approaches. This is an anarchist movement striking at the heart of our rights, our morals, our heritage, and our heroes in a effort to erase the identity of the United States and replace it with their revisionist, socialists, nightmare in which these idiots tell us what we must do to stay off of their death lists. They are vapid, narcissists bereft of morals and empathy and they are not just another political party. They are the enemy of everything we believe in and stand for.

I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.

I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.

So, it was homicide when my mom chose to take my dad off life support? 03-confused

Did he have a living will? Did his EEG show no brain activity? Tom quit the quibbling. All of the humanitarian measures have already been their for Dr's with regard to lifeless fetus, or for women whose lives may be in jeopardy, and even for infants born with no brain activity. The problem with this law, like all of them, are in the un-discussed details where the devil always resides. Since the medical community has handled these situations humanely and mercifully for decades there are other aspects to this law. I'm betting the big one is to provide cover for 3rd trimester abortions and to cover the liability of that. Because if it is simply for the reasons the left is citing then there was no need for a new law at all. Doctors conveniently don't document medication given to terminally ill patients who are suffering immensely so that the patient is eased out at the request of the patient and family. Medicine is not the heartless practice that those on the left would make it out to be just so you could introduce laws that would make it heartless for beginning life. There is a huge hidden agenda here because otherwise as it is described it should be a non issue.
02-04-2019 04:29 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 04:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 04:22 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 04:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 03:54 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 01:31 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  I think my position has been likely confused by the reply I received. I do not support abortion and obviously do not support killing infants. We have lost too many pregnancies to miscarriage to ever think any life is worth ending.

My original interpretation of his remarks lead me to believe he was saying if a baby was not viable it would be born and then the family and doctors would discuss what course of treatment they would pursue. That is no different than how births are handled now. It's an absolute tragedy that it happens, but there are babies born that are incompatible with life. You can will them to live for a certain period of time but in the end it will not have mattered and the measures they go through can be torturous. Now as umbluegray pointed out the rare miracle happens and God blesses a family, but that is not the case most of the time. Letting a baby go so they do not suffer is not infanticide and something I pray none of you ever have to decide.

Key note to this, the conditions they deem incompatible with life are very limited and the focus shifts from tubes, IVs, and vents to making the baby comfortable so the family can enjoy what little time they have with them.

I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.

I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.

So, it was homicide when my mom chose to take my dad off life support? 03-confused

You can personalize it to make for dramatic effect.

But there are other factors in play. I assume this was a "legal" option. That doesn't make it moral.

Slavery was legal but it was not moral.

Was your father either in the hospital or under hospice care at the time?

He was on life support with no hope at a meaningful recovery...like newborns from time to time. Both innocent and unable to make their wishes known. I don't want any government telling families how they should make these most difficult decisions. I hope to hell you don't believe any different. There's things our government should have NO say in!

Was he either in the hospital or under hospice care at the time?
02-04-2019 04:37 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #53
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-04-2019 04:37 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 04:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 04:22 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 04:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  [quote='umbluegray' pid='15882569' dateline='1549313683']
I disagree that ending a baby's life to prevent suffering is not infanticide.
- We can say it's for a humane reason, but we're talking about an innocent human life.
I agree in that I pray no one ever finds themselves in that position.
So, it was homicide when my mom chose to take my dad off life support? 03-confused
You can personalize it to make for dramatic effect.
But there are other factors in play. I assume this was a "legal" option. That doesn't make it moral.
Slavery was legal but it was not moral.
Was your father either in the hospital or under hospice care at the time?
He was on life support with no hope at a meaningful recovery...like newborns from time to time. Both innocent and unable to make their wishes known. I don't want any government telling families how they should make these most difficult decisions. I hope to hell you don't believe any different. There's things our government should have NO say in!

I'm confused. I thought you favored single-payer. There would be one advantage with single-payer. You and your mom wouldn't have to make that decision. You couldn't actually. Big Brother would make that decision, probably with no input from your mother.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 09:28 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-04-2019 09:26 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
Tom, it's ok to admit you dont support any protections for viable children and are comfortable with the fact that their birth is completely in the hands of how the mother is feeling.

I dont agree with you but that is clearly the position you have taken so dont dilly dally around it
02-05-2019 09:42 AM
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Post: #55
Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
And let’s not let this devolve into what Hoodie stupidly said on the radio broadcast and ignore what is/was actually in the barbaric bill that Tran was pushing.

Gov MJ was trying to somehow tie in a legitimate medical reason for a late term “decision”, re “viability”. He did it spectacularly clumsily. Amazingly, actually.

But that’s NOT what the barbarian Tran was pushing. The “viability” of the 9 mth old child does not, and should not, rely on the alleged mental health or stability of the mother.

Where’s Dad? Grandma? Prospective adoptive parent(s)? Trans’ bill that Gov Coonman was trying to defend made it somehow OK to “abort” a baby in the birth canal with the mother dilating.

Ie., giving birth. No restrictions. Anyone care to defend or rationalize that?

But a border barrier is “immoral”.

Y’all be f#%^’ed up. Only IMO...
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 10:09 AM by JMUDunk.)
02-05-2019 10:07 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-05-2019 09:42 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Tom, it's ok to admit you dont support any protections for viable children and are comfortable with the fact that their birth is completely in the hands of how the mother is feeling.

I dont agree with you but that is clearly the position you have taken so dont dilly dally around it

I'd freely admit that if that was even remotely what I believe or have said here, but, it's not. 03-zzz
02-05-2019 11:41 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-05-2019 11:41 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 09:42 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Tom, it's ok to admit you dont support any protections for viable children and are comfortable with the fact that their birth is completely in the hands of how the mother is feeling.

I dont agree with you but that is clearly the position you have taken so dont dilly dally around it

I'd freely admit that if that was even remotely what I believe or have said here, but, it's not. 03-zzz

So, was your father either in the hospital or under hospice care at the time?
02-05-2019 12:05 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-05-2019 11:41 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 09:42 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Tom, it's ok to admit you dont support any protections for viable children and are comfortable with the fact that their birth is completely in the hands of how the mother is feeling.

I dont agree with you but that is clearly the position you have taken so dont dilly dally around it

I'd freely admit that if that was even remotely what I believe or have said here, but, it's not. 03-zzz

So what restrictions would you support for viable children
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 01:33 PM by solohawks.)
02-05-2019 01:32 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-05-2019 01:32 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 11:41 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 09:42 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Tom, it's ok to admit you dont support any protections for viable children and are comfortable with the fact that their birth is completely in the hands of how the mother is feeling.

I dont agree with you but that is clearly the position you have taken so dont dilly dally around it

I'd freely admit that if that was even remotely what I believe or have said here, but, it's not. 03-zzz

So what restrictions would you support for viable children

It's up to certified medical professionals to make that determination...and with every case being different, I don't what the government trying to legislate what viability is.
02-05-2019 01:46 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Do Democrats besides VA governor support infanticide?
(02-05-2019 01:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 01:32 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 11:41 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 09:42 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Tom, it's ok to admit you dont support any protections for viable children and are comfortable with the fact that their birth is completely in the hands of how the mother is feeling.

I dont agree with you but that is clearly the position you have taken so dont dilly dally around it

I'd freely admit that if that was even remotely what I believe or have said here, but, it's not. 03-zzz

So what restrictions would you support for viable children

It's up to certified medical professionals to make that determination...and with every case being different, I don't what the government trying to legislate what viability is.

Ok, so based off your comment....if a woman found a doctor who signed off that her completley viable second or third term child was causing her mental anguish, you would support the abortion as a medical professional said it's for the greater good.

And you see no potential for abuse??
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 01:53 PM by solohawks.)
02-05-2019 01:53 PM
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