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Which teams should leave FBS?
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Ohio Poly Offline
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Which teams should leave FBS?
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."
01-31-2019 09:36 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
A lot of people get up in arms about a larger FBS (P5/G5) split, but there already is a significant separation within FBS. Schools (Presidents/ADs/Fans) have too much pride to ever willingly admit this, however, so an abundance of schools continue to raise spending, unnaturally, in order to account for the big schools spending what they earn in television revenue.

There are a lot of factual points and interesting proposals in this article. Good read.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2019 09:48 PM by GoldenWarrior11.)
01-31-2019 09:47 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."

This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2019 09:50 PM by Kittonhead.)
01-31-2019 09:49 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
Teams who should leave FBS are schools whose financial sinkhole into FBS are inhibiting its proven ability to be a major players in hoops.
01-31-2019 09:53 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Which teams should leave FBS?
The one school from out west that should drop is San Jose State.


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01-31-2019 10:48 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 10:48 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  The one school from out west that should drop is San Jose State.


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Even though SJSU barely draws flies, they have had more success than UTEP and NMSU. Those two should drop football or go down to FCS before San Jose.
01-31-2019 10:56 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
Rice, because they don't know what they should be.
02-01-2019 08:41 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 08:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice, because they don't know what they should be.

I like Rice. They won a C-USA title and went to three straight bowl games this decade.
02-01-2019 08:50 AM
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indianasniff Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."


This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.


Obviously written by a pimple faced fan of a P5 school that was told to write about G5
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2019 08:59 AM by indianasniff.)
02-01-2019 08:59 AM
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:47 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  A lot of people get up in arms about a larger FBS (P5/G5) split, but there already is a significant separation within FBS. Schools (Presidents/ADs/Fans) have too much pride to ever willingly admit this, however, so an abundance of schools continue to raise spending, unnaturally, in order to account for the big schools spending what they earn in television revenue.

There are a lot of factual points and interesting proposals in this article. Good read.

The administration at Arkansas State makes no bones about the fact we cannot compete financially with the P5. They frame their budget and facility goals around other G5 and striving toward the Access slot.

FCS did not work well because the fans and community didn't support it.
02-01-2019 09:16 AM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 08:59 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."


This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.


Obviously written by a pimple faced fan of a P5 school that was told to write about G5

I never understand how G5's get upset by it. Just because you care about Toledo doesn't mean anyone else does. The data shows that actually very few people care. But like all G5's you make a fake list of peer groups (Alabama, USC, etc) and want to stay connected him. It's just a case of Keeping Up the Joneses. "If that crap school is FBS then our crap school should be there too."
02-01-2019 10:04 AM
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Big Frog II Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 09:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:47 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  A lot of people get up in arms about a larger FBS (P5/G5) split, but there already is a significant separation within FBS. Schools (Presidents/ADs/Fans) have too much pride to ever willingly admit this, however, so an abundance of schools continue to raise spending, unnaturally, in order to account for the big schools spending what they earn in television revenue.

There are a lot of factual points and interesting proposals in this article. Good read.

The administration at Arkansas State makes no bones about the fact we cannot compete financially with the P5. They frame their budget and facility goals around other G5 and striving toward the Access slot.

FCS did not work well because the fans and community didn't support it.
Arkansas State does a great job where they are.
02-01-2019 10:20 AM
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arkstfan Away
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:04 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 08:59 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."


This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.


Obviously written by a pimple faced fan of a P5 school that was told to write about G5

I never understand how G5's get upset by it. Just because you care about Toledo doesn't mean anyone else does. The data shows that actually very few people care. But like all G5's you make a fake list of peer groups (Alabama, USC, etc) and want to stay connected him. It's just a case of Keeping Up the Joneses. "If that crap school is FBS then our crap school should be there too."

And I don't understand why there is a contingent of P5 fans that lose their **** over a Toledo being FBS.

Are they taking recruits you want? No
Are they taking TV dollars from you? No
Are they hiring away your coaching and administrative talent inflating your cost of doing business? No
Are they commanding the best TV windows on the most watched channels? No
Are fans walking away from P5 stadiums in droves and flocking to G5 stadiums instead? No.
Preventing the adoption of rules they want? The last time P5 didn't get its way on a vote, the G5 voted with them. It was FCS and non-football schools who blocked it. The G5 ain't stopping the P5 from doing ****. With autonomy it mostly doesn't matter.

The P5/G5 inside of FBS relationship is extremely positive for the P5. They can buy an opponent with some name recognition and not have to return the game. That creates more inventory for TV and another chance to sell tickets to the fan base. They can go home/home and get a road game they are likely to win. The caliber of competition and the overlap in schedules makes it easier to evaluate coaching talent and that coaching talent is generally making 25% to 50% of what the P5 considers a starting salary.

The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.
02-01-2019 10:51 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."

This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.

I agree. Poorly researched and poorly written. For example, take ULM athletics. Their 2016-2017 athletic budget was $14.2 million, with $5.3 million spent on football. In 2018, they brought in $2.7 million in revenue from money games and another $1.7 million from their share of Sun Belt CFP revenue.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...690715002/

A total of $4.4 million in revenue before they get to any other football related revenue. FBS football is a huge source of revenue for ULM. Dropping down to FCS would be a big money loser for them.

Taking an attendance number for one season does not tell you a lot. ULM in 2017 averaged 9,928 fans. In 2012, they averaged 24,981 per game. So what happened in 2012? The team was good. They won eight games. They beat Arkansas on the road. They lost to Auburn on the road in OT. They lost to Baylor at home 47-42, in a game that was televised nationally on ESPN and had attendance of 31,175.

Their head football coach has a salary of $390,000 annually. ULM is not paying their head coach millions and they went 6-6 in 2018. Obviously, in this one example, FBS football is not a burden for this school. Each school has multiple reasons for being an FBS football program. An attendance number for one season tells you nothing about that FBS football program.
02-01-2019 10:56 AM
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arkstfan Away
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:56 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."

This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.

I agree. Poorly researched and poorly written. For example, take ULM athletics. Their 2016-2017 athletic budget was $14.2 million, with $5.3 million spent on football. In 2018, they brought in $2.7 million in revenue from money games and another $1.7 million from their share of Sun Belt CFP revenue.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...690715002/

A total of $4.4 million in revenue before they get to any other football related revenue. FBS football is a huge source of revenue for ULM. Dropping down to FCS would be a big money loser for them.

Taking an attendance number for one season does not tell you a lot. ULM in 2017 averaged 9,928 fans. In 2012, they averaged 24,981 per game. So what happened in 2012? The team was good. They won eight games. They beat Arkansas on the road. They lost to Auburn on the road in OT. They lost to Baylor at home 47-42, in a game that was televised nationally on ESPN and had attendance of 31,175.

Their head football coach has a salary of $390,000 annually. ULM is not paying their head coach millions and they went 6-6 in 2018. Obviously, in this one example, FBS football is not a burden for this school. Each school has multiple reasons for being an FBS football program. An attendance number for one season tells you nothing about that FBS football program.

And they aren't over-spending on facilities. They did a few upgrades the past few years but they were small affordable projects.

If there is a "sports bubble" with TV and it bursts, ULM isn't going to be one of the schools scrambling to figure out how to finance their debt load.
02-01-2019 11:06 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
Nobody is going to move down from FBS. It's more likely that some (many) could leave the NCAA, leaving as many as 30-50 schools behind.
02-01-2019 11:30 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. 07-coffee3
02-01-2019 11:45 AM
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usffan Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:04 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 08:59 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."


This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.


Obviously written by a pimple faced fan of a P5 school that was told to write about G5

I never understand how G5's get upset by it. Just because you care about Toledo doesn't mean anyone else does. The data shows that actually very few people care. But like all G5's you make a fake list of peer groups (Alabama, USC, etc) and want to stay connected him. It's just a case of Keeping Up the Joneses. "If that crap school is FBS then our crap school should be there too."

And I don't understand why there is a contingent of P5 fans that lose their **** over a Toledo being FBS.

Are they taking recruits you want? No
Are they taking TV dollars from you? No
Are they hiring away your coaching and administrative talent inflating your cost of doing business? No
Are they commanding the best TV windows on the most watched channels? No
Are fans walking away from P5 stadiums in droves and flocking to G5 stadiums instead? No.
Preventing the adoption of rules they want? The last time P5 didn't get its way on a vote, the G5 voted with them. It was FCS and non-football schools who blocked it. The G5 ain't stopping the P5 from doing ****. With autonomy it mostly doesn't matter.

The P5/G5 inside of FBS relationship is extremely positive for the P5. They can buy an opponent with some name recognition and not have to return the game. That creates more inventory for TV and another chance to sell tickets to the fan base. They can go home/home and get a road game they are likely to win. The caliber of competition and the overlap in schedules makes it easier to evaluate coaching talent and that coaching talent is generally making 25% to 50% of what the P5 considers a starting salary.

The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

[Image: giphy.gif]

The funny thing is that as soon as some "cut" would happen, then there would still be grousing about the anchors in whatever the new world order is. If nothing else, the G5 schools are the canaries in the coal mine for the lower-half P5 schools.

USFFan
02-01-2019 11:49 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:04 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 08:59 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."


This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.


Obviously written by a pimple faced fan of a P5 school that was told to write about G5

I never understand how G5's get upset by it. Just because you care about Toledo doesn't mean anyone else does. The data shows that actually very few people care. But like all G5's you make a fake list of peer groups (Alabama, USC, etc) and want to stay connected him. It's just a case of Keeping Up the Joneses. "If that crap school is FBS then our crap school should be there too."

Miami cared enough about Toledo to play in the Glass Bowl.
02-01-2019 12:24 PM
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CliftonAve Online
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RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 11:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. :coffee3:


With all due respect Wedge, while I agree some are just bantering in harmless internet opinion, there are just as many who eagerly await the day some school(s) drop out of the FBS. As Arkstfan pointed out, they believe their school will profit off the fact some school in another party of the country bowed out.

With respects to the comment made earlier about who cares about Toledo except their fans-- the same can be said about everybody in the country really with the exception of maybe 10-12 programs. People in Ohio don't give a shyte about the P5 schools in the Carolinas; people in the Carolinas don't care Wisconsin or Iowa; Ole Miss fan doesn't care about Iowa State; Oregon fan doesn't care about Georgia Tech. Fan care about their team first, maybe 1-2 teams in the conference, and that is about it.
02-01-2019 12:43 PM
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