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Which teams should leave FBS?
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Post: #21
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Teams who should leave FBS are schools whose financial sinkhole into FBS are inhibiting its proven ability to be a major players in hoops.

Which point the author makes.

Although a lot of the article is nonsense. Jury out on new programs who never had success in FCS, but dump long time programs?

And he has to be young if he doesn't understand Miami has had considerable success. Doesn't remember Big Ben.

And he talks about attendance but then tries to dump UTEP because they don't win very often. But UTEP blows away most of the teams on that list in attendance.

Its really schools like San Jose and Eastern Michigan that need to just drop football and focus on basketball (or soccer or baseball).
02-01-2019 01:16 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 12:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 11:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. :coffee3:


With all due respect Wedge, while I agree some are just bantering in harmless internet opinion, there are just as many who eagerly await the day some school(s) drop out of the FBS. As Arkstfan pointed out, they believe their school will profit off the fact some school in another party of the country bowed out.

I understand that it's annoying, but it's still harmless. Another example: There are a lot of folks back east who hate all of us here and eagerly await the day that California falls off the continent and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. That might be irritating to those of us who live here, but they can't make it happen by wishing it so. Just as no one on the internet can make any school drop out of FBS by blogging that the school should drop out.
02-01-2019 01:24 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 01:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 12:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 11:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. :coffee3:


With all due respect Wedge, while I agree some are just bantering in harmless internet opinion, there are just as many who eagerly await the day some school(s) drop out of the FBS. As Arkstfan pointed out, they believe their school will profit off the fact some school in another party of the country bowed out.

I understand that it's annoying, but it's still harmless. Another example: There are a lot of folks back east who hate all of us here and eagerly await the day that California falls off the continent and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. That might be irritating to those of us who live here, but they can't make it happen by wishing it so. Just as no one on the internet can make any school drop out of FBS by blogging that the school should drop out.

Not true. Without California we couldn't watch college football and basketball at midnight. I think you guys got the better side of the deal though. I would prefer breakfast ballgames but that's probably due to age, 15 years ago it'd have been different.
02-01-2019 01:29 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 01:29 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 01:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 12:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 11:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. :coffee3:


With all due respect Wedge, while I agree some are just bantering in harmless internet opinion, there are just as many who eagerly await the day some school(s) drop out of the FBS. As Arkstfan pointed out, they believe their school will profit off the fact some school in another party of the country bowed out.

I understand that it's annoying, but it's still harmless. Another example: There are a lot of folks back east who hate all of us here and eagerly await the day that California falls off the continent and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. That might be irritating to those of us who live here, but they can't make it happen by wishing it so. Just as no one on the internet can make any school drop out of FBS by blogging that the school should drop out.

Not true. Without California we couldn't watch college football and basketball at midnight. I think you guys got the better side of the deal though. I would prefer breakfast ballgames but that's probably due to age, 15 years ago it'd have been different.

That I agree with, though the flip side of it is, if you're here, an east coast baseball or basketball game on a weeknight might be over before you get home. But, even that is not such a big deal anymore because of DVRs.
02-01-2019 01:36 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 01:29 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 01:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 12:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 11:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. :coffee3:


With all due respect Wedge, while I agree some are just bantering in harmless internet opinion, there are just as many who eagerly await the day some school(s) drop out of the FBS. As Arkstfan pointed out, they believe their school will profit off the fact some school in another party of the country bowed out.

I understand that it's annoying, but it's still harmless. Another example: There are a lot of folks back east who hate all of us here and eagerly await the day that California falls off the continent and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. That might be irritating to those of us who live here, but they can't make it happen by wishing it so. Just as no one on the internet can make any school drop out of FBS by blogging that the school should drop out.

Not true. Without California we couldn't watch college football and basketball at midnight. I think you guys got the better side of the deal though. I would prefer breakfast ballgames but that's probably due to age, 15 years ago it'd have been different.

Man I love late night football though most of it is MWC.

I don't care about the outcome of any game that doesn't involve my team or impact my team, yet I still watch hours and hours where the outcome is irrelevant to my interest.

I don't care about late night west coast AL baseball but I'll watch that **** anyway.
02-01-2019 01:45 PM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 10:04 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 08:59 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."


This article is a total waste of time, even for a realignment thread.


Obviously written by a pimple faced fan of a P5 school that was told to write about G5

I never understand how G5's get upset by it. Just because you care about Toledo doesn't mean anyone else does. The data shows that actually very few people care. But like all G5's you make a fake list of peer groups (Alabama, USC, etc) and want to stay connected him. It's just a case of Keeping Up the Joneses. "If that crap school is FBS then our crap school should be there too."

And I don't understand why there is a contingent of P5 fans that lose their **** over a Toledo being FBS.

They're afraid of us.... just like other G5 schools that play P5 schools tough. Ask Michigan, Penn State, and Arkansas what its like to see Toledo on their schedule.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2019 01:48 PM by utpotts.)
02-01-2019 01:47 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
Take a look at actual attendance. If the fans are not showing up, why keep playing? I am not talking about one game or one year, but over a period of time. If the students aren't there and the alums don't bother to show up any more, it is time to do something else.
02-01-2019 01:58 PM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 08:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice, because they don't know what they should be.

UH should because they are wasting unsustainable amounts of student fees to get blown out by Army.
02-01-2019 02:46 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-leave-fcs

"Dropping down could help a team win more and spend less. Attendance could reveal some candidates."
Nobody is leaving

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02-01-2019 03:21 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
What difference does attendance really make? Especially nowadays with so many games on TV.

Is a school going to drop wrestling or tennis because the attendance is low?
02-01-2019 03:39 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
I have to say I'm not a fan of the article because I think the author displays a very superficial understanding of the state of the G5 which is evident by their choices for who should stay and who should go.
02-01-2019 03:46 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 03:39 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What difference does attendance really make? Especially nowadays with so many games on TV.

Is a school going to drop wrestling or tennis because the attendance is low?

Football is very expensive to maintain. If your TV contract stinks, you better have good attendance to make up for it.
02-01-2019 04:40 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #33
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The trim FBS people cannot articulate any real reason to trim it and no one who understands how the intercollegiate economy works would expect the P5 to harm themselves by trimming G5 away.

Well actually, the article is based on a stated reason to drop down to FBS - some schools might save a lot of money by doing so.

As for the P5, you are correct: despite what some random P5 fans on this forum might say, the P5 itself likes the fact that there are many marginal schools willing to lose $20 million a year to call themselves FBS, because the P5 does like having these bottom-feeding FBS around to play.

The only factor that has existed within memory that caused the P5 to seriously consider breaking from the G5 was the G5 (and lower) schools having the power to vote down P5 proposals within the NCAA structure. But the autonomy solution resolved that problem entirely, from the P5 perspective it has worked exactly as they hoped it would, so they have zero reason to want to split from the G5.

After "autonomy" went in to effect, some of the upper G5, like Aresco, panicked and starting running around like chickens with their heads cut off worrying about "making sure when the P5 leave they take us with them". That is and was an entirely fake concern, as the P5 haven't shown any indication of wanting to leave the past 5 years, and this is not surprising as objectively, they have every incentive to stay in FBS with the G5.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2019 06:16 PM by quo vadis.)
02-01-2019 06:11 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 01:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 01:29 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 01:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 12:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 11:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Nobody should be "forced" out. And any school who wants to move from FCS to FBS and can afford it should be able, if they want, to do what Liberty did. As long as you can demonstrate for at least a few years out that you will have a football schedule full of FBS opponents including 5 home games a year, you should be in.

As for anyone suggesting on a message board that a school should drop out of FBS -- that's just someone's harmless internet opinion, no different from someone else going the opposite direction and opining that 73 other schools should start an FBS football program. :coffee3:


With all due respect Wedge, while I agree some are just bantering in harmless internet opinion, there are just as many who eagerly await the day some school(s) drop out of the FBS. As Arkstfan pointed out, they believe their school will profit off the fact some school in another party of the country bowed out.

I understand that it's annoying, but it's still harmless. Another example: There are a lot of folks back east who hate all of us here and eagerly await the day that California falls off the continent and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. That might be irritating to those of us who live here, but they can't make it happen by wishing it so. Just as no one on the internet can make any school drop out of FBS by blogging that the school should drop out.

Not true. Without California we couldn't watch college football and basketball at midnight. I think you guys got the better side of the deal though. I would prefer breakfast ballgames but that's probably due to age, 15 years ago it'd have been different.

Man I love late night football though most of it is MWC.

I don't care about the outcome of any game that doesn't involve my team or impact my team, yet I still watch hours and hours where the outcome is irrelevant to my interest.

I don't care about late night west coast AL baseball but I'll watch that **** anyway.

I liked late night football when I was in the Central Time Zone. But in the eastern, its just too late.
02-01-2019 06:24 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #35
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 06:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  I liked late night football when I was in the Central Time Zone. But in the eastern, its just too late.

When i moved to Louisiana 20 years ago after having grown up in the east, one thing I instantly liked was the kickoff times for football, college and NFL, in the CTZ.

IMO, the CTZ is the absolute sweet spot for football TV viewing. Not too early, not too late, just right.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2019 06:30 PM by quo vadis.)
02-01-2019 06:29 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
From the article...

"these teams didn’t scan 15,000 fans into their games: ULM, Coastal Carolina, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Ball State, UMass, Kent State, San Jose State, Miami (Ohio), Central Michigan, Charlotte, UL Lafayette, Akron, Northern Illinois, UTEP, Arkansas State, New Mexico State, Ohio, Western Michigan, Middle Tennessee, Texas State, Nevada, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UNLV, Old Dominion, Toledo, UTSA, Southern Miss, Marshall, Louisiana Tech, Wyoming, Connecticut, and Western Kentucky."

While I don't think all of these teams need to step down, some really can afford to play at the FBS level.

This woun't be popular with most on the board, but if it came down to the P5 conferences officially separating from the rest of the FBS, or some of these programs being forced out of the FBS, I'd support forcing some of these programs out. I think the FBS would be better top to bottom if it was reduced down to about 85 teams. I think the conferences outside of the P5, would have better and more competitive members and be stronger.
02-01-2019 06:53 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
I disagree on this issue about removing schools from FBS. FCS is becoming stale like who wants to play a Presbyterian team instead of UNC? Schools rather want to stay FBS.

UTSA is something that could be a much better supported team. When ESPN showed Oklahoma State @ UTSA as part of the upset alert a few years ago? The Alamo Dome was packed. Packed much better than a Miami Florida game when only less than a half stadium showed up. UTSA draws better crowds than FIU and FAU. They are better supported than Tulsa and Tulane.

AAC:Tulsa, Tulane, UConn.
C-USA:Rice, FAU, FIU
MAC:Eastern Michigan, Kent State
MWC:San Jose State, UNLV
SBC:Coastal Carolina, La.-Monroe, Georgia State
IND.:New Mexico State

Move Ups:
NDSU
South Dakota State
Montana
Montana State
Delaware
Florida A&M (yes, losers but still draws over 15,000 a year.)
James Madison
Lamar (They showed some fan support better than some FBS schools)
Jacksonville State
Weber State
Northern Iowa

Those are schools who do get over 15,000 in their stadiums at times. I did not count all the HBCUs either which the SWAC, some MEAC plus Tuskegee that draws over 15,000 per game. Yeah, Tuskegee is D2, but they do have a much better fanbase than San Jose State and Eastern Michigan.

Plus, you also have P5 stinking up FBS with fan attendance.
Kansas, Washington State, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Pittsburgh, Virginia and almost the whole ACC all seem to have many emptied seats, but always cooking their books so that they do not look bad. This is why UConn. got rejected for a P5 spot because ESPN had to keep their cameras off UConn's side where the fans sit because they did not show up to the bowl game against Oklahoma. They tried to spin it as a sold out crowd, but when a camera angle accidently show the UConn's fan's side? It looked half emptied.
02-01-2019 07:37 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(01-31-2019 09:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Teams who should leave FBS are schools whose financial sinkhole into FBS are inhibiting its proven ability to be a major players in hoops.

I can't think of any schools in this category.

Western Kentucky?

They still pay their basketball coaches good.

Scratching my head here as to who is a proven major player that can't afford to do it now because of FBS. AAC schools spend good on hoops coaches. Few of the G4 have proven history as a major player.

New Mexico? UAB?
02-01-2019 08:19 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
Not sure where to put this so I'll leave it here. D2 Malone University announced today they're disbanding their football program.

https://www.ohio.com/sports/20190201/mal...tructuring
02-01-2019 08:22 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Which teams should leave FBS?
(02-01-2019 06:53 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  From the article...

"these teams didn’t scan 15,000 fans into their games: ULM, Coastal Carolina, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Ball State, UMass, Kent State, San Jose State, Miami (Ohio), Central Michigan, Charlotte, UL Lafayette, Akron, Northern Illinois, UTEP, Arkansas State, New Mexico State, Ohio, Western Michigan, Middle Tennessee, Texas State, Nevada, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UNLV, Old Dominion, Toledo, UTSA, Southern Miss, Marshall, Louisiana Tech, Wyoming, Connecticut, and Western Kentucky."

While I don't think all of these teams need to step down, some really can afford to play at the FBS level.

This woun't be popular with most on the board, but if it came down to the P5 conferences officially separating from the rest of the FBS, or some of these programs being forced out of the FBS, I'd support forcing some of these programs out. I think the FBS would be better top to bottom if it was reduced down to about 85 teams. I think the conferences outside of the P5, would have better and more competitive members and be stronger.
Nobody is getting forced out. Nobody is leaving.

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02-01-2019 08:30 PM
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