RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 01:52 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(01-31-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote: Testing is solely a function of what the state wants to do, not common core
Common core is an effort to help students in our increasingly mobile society. If you move from one state to another, you shouldn't miss things in Math or English. And its an effort to make sure things are covered at the appropriate ages. There are efforts to create a Common core in other subjects, but none of those have been adopted anywhere (and I don't think any are complete).
Most critics of common core have no clue what it is. Some of the critics have serious points, but most are anxious to display their total ignorance of the topic. You will never see a group make such idiots of themselves as at a meeting on Common core, not even Democrats at a Russian conspiracy hearing.
That was one of the thoughts behind it.
But think about the practicality...
If Massachusetts (or NJ, based on the ranking source) has the BEST public education in the U.S. and Nevada has worst (source below) how do we think CCSS (Common Core State Standards) impacted each system?
Did the 49 remaining states up their games to match Mass?
Did Mass have to drop standards to meet somewhere in the middle?
Regardless, several years of test results are in and the results are opposite of what was expected and show CCSS to be a failure.
By the way, I've studied the UN directives which led to global education changes. The U.S. has had to be very careful in how it implemented the U.N. directives given that the U.S. federal government has no constitutional control over education.
To garner the needed control the fed Dpt of Ed $$$ subjects the states to federal control. Federal money can't be used A, B or C; therefore, the state systems cannot engage in A, B or C.
I can explain the process where Race To The Top (RTTT) was implemented.
New standards were being developed in accordance with CCSS but they had not been published.
The feds dangled additional funding $$$ for states to adopt RTTT prior to standards being publicized. The earlier the state adopted the soon-to-be-released RTTT standards, the more $$$ the state received.
Tennessee was one of the first states to jump on board.
At the time, my state senator was Delores Gresham ®. She was the Chair of the state Education Committee.
Several of my citizen group colleagues and I spoke with her often about the impact of CCSS, but this was after the fact.
Once states signed on to RTTT the standards were published later.
I still have the following bookmark folders in my browser:
Education->UN
Education->Common Core
Education->1996 Natl Ed Summit
There's lots of research tucked away in there. I can share as much as needed.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 01:57 PM)tigergreen Wrote:
(02-01-2019 07:43 AM)Chappy Wrote:
(02-01-2019 06:48 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote: After watching the contortions one has to go through to arrive at an answer using CC math for something as simple as what is 321 X 8 I am all for kicking it to the curb nationwide.
Meh. Kids learning math a new way doesn't bother me. Yes, it's more steps and more complicated than the way that we learned it, but they're purposely teaching math to not be a rote memorization, but to actually understand the functions of it. I have no problem with that.
My son came home in 2nd grade with processes that I thought were backwards & self-defeating......until he started being able to reason out problems in his head that required me to have a piece of paper.
They're learning a more logical application to math now, regardless of how much "logic" we old heads see in it.
As an undergrad math major and an CPA/lawyer who has negotiated a bunch of purchase and acquisition deals over 40 years, I've done plenty of math in my time. And I fail to understand how it is that CC math teaches any understanding of functions.
I'm pleased that your son has shown that aptitude. But I would guess that is due to some God-given talent rather than to being taught CC math.
Again this is a bunch of academics kicking around theoretical constructs, rather than practical uses of math. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't. That's reported to be a Yogi Berra-ism, by the way. I used it in class yesterday and when I attributed to Yogi, students asked if I was talking about the cartoon bear. Generation gap.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2019 02:09 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 12:20 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:
(02-01-2019 11:58 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:
(02-01-2019 11:16 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:
(01-31-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote: Testing is solely a function of what the state wants to do, not common core
Common core is an effort to help students in our increasingly mobile society. If you move from one state to another, you shouldn't miss things in Math or English. And its an effort to make sure things are covered at the appropriate ages. There are efforts to create a Common core in other subjects, but none of those have been adopted anywhere (and I don't think any are complete).
Most critics of common core have no clue what it is. Some of the critics have serious points, but most are anxious to display their total ignorance of the topic. You will never see a group make such idiots of themselves as at a meeting on Common core, n̶o̶t̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶D̶e̶m̶o̶c̶r̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶s̶p̶i̶r̶a̶c̶y̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶r̶i̶n̶g̶.̶
This................ just that last sentence needed edited. From my point of view. test my kids over anything that you want but at least be consistent on what you want them to know. The common core was attempting to do just that. What you should know when. Problem is once you normalize standards you could then do comparisons. Some people and one political party doesn't want that because then you would be compelled to do something about poor test scores.........
Just one?
If standards are normalized and testing is done based on those normalized standards, one of the first things that will stand out is the difference between good teachers and poor teachers. One of the first things that will be suggested is to replace those teachers who aren't cutting the mustard.
Can't imagine THAT will sit well with the teacher's union and therefore it won't sit well with one political party in particular.
We have that now. It’s called value added. Unions want this because it shows teachers can and do make a difference. However, what do you do with the ones who don’t cut the mustard. My union? We buy them out. We want the best and the brightest. Our salaries show that too.
Maybe your union does, but there are many others who feel it's their job to protect teachers, good and bad.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 01:52 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(01-31-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote: Testing is solely a function of what the state wants to do, not common core
Common core is an effort to help students in our increasingly mobile society. If you move from one state to another, you shouldn't miss things in Math or English. And its an effort to make sure things are covered at the appropriate ages. There are efforts to create a Common core in other subjects, but none of those have been adopted anywhere (and I don't think any are complete).
Most critics of common core have no clue what it is. Some of the critics have serious points, but most are anxious to display their total ignorance of the topic. You will never see a group make such idiots of themselves as at a meeting on Common core, not even Democrats at a Russian conspiracy hearing.
That was one of the thoughts behind it.
But think about the practicality...
If Massachusetts (or NJ, based on the ranking source) has the BEST public education in the U.S. and Nevada has worst (source below) how do we think CCSS (Common Core State Standards) impacted each system?
Did the 49 remaining states up their games to match Mass?
Did Mass have to drop standards to meet somewhere in the middle?
Regardless, several years of test results are in and the results are opposite of what was expected and show CCSS to be a failure.
By the way, I've studied the UN directives which led to global education changes. The U.S. has had to be very careful in how it implemented the U.N. directives given that the U.S. federal government has no constitutional control over education.
To garner the needed control the fed Dpt of Ed $$$ subjects the states to federal control. Federal money can't be used A, B or C; therefore, the state systems cannot engage in A, B or C.
I can explain the process where Race To The Top (RTTT) was implemented.
New standards were being developed in accordance with CCSS but they had not been published.
The feds dangled additional funding $$$ for states to adopt RTTT prior to standards being publicized. The earlier the state adopted the soon-to-be-released RTTT standards, the more $$$ the state received.
Tennessee was one of the first states to jump on board.
At the time, my state senator was Delores Gresham ®. She was the Chair of the state Education Committee.
Several of my citizen group colleagues and I spoke with her often about the impact of CCSS, but this was after the fact.
Once states signed on to RTTT the standards were published later.
I don't see anything about your quotes or your link that is particularly relevant to the topic of common core.
Also the USA Today article doesn't explain how it comes up with those rankings. Texas is 40 but has the 5th highest graduation rate and is 28th in bachelor's degrees and income above the national median (not that either of those are directly related to schools). It is 4th lowest in spending per capita, but if it is 5th in graduation rate, it sounds like it is doing pretty well. And having gone to schools in Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio and Texas and having kids in Texas and Georgia schools, I can say Texas is well ahead of all of them.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
We do need some set of standard skills and knowledge that students need to acquire as they progress through the school system. The problem is letting a bunch of academics pick those skills and that knowledge.
The standards should come from outside the teaching profession. This is what society says you need to teach. Now figure out how to teach it. And include some reasonable and appropriate metrics.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2019 10:10 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
70% of people just need to learn how to read, write, and do basic math along with getting along with others and life skills to accomplish their destiny. The problem with common core is it attempts to put that 70% at parity with the 30% that need higher education to accomplish their destiny. It drags that 30% down.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 10:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: We do need some set of standard skills and knowledge that students need to acquire as they progress through the school system. The problem is letting a bunch of academics pick those skills and that knowledge.
The standards should come from outside the teaching profession. This is what society says you need to teach. Now figure out how to teach it. And include some reasonable and appropriate metrics.
Well academics need to be involved. They are teachers. But at the same time, there need to be development specialists involved. I think they pretty much left out that group.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 10:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: 70% of people just need to learn how to read, write, and do basic math along with getting along with others and life skills to accomplish their destiny. The problem with common core is it attempts to put that 70% at parity with the 30% that need higher education to accomplish their destiny. It drags that 30% down.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Its a minimum, not a maximum.
If I have any concern, its that the 50% who don't go to college are being pushed to do college prep level work, leading to failure or massive grade inflation.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
We need to put students on at least three different tracks. One track for the exceptional students to prepare them for the likes of the Ivies, the military academies, and other prestigious universities. One track for the middle group that would be headed to lesser universities. And a vocational track for those who want to learn a trade instead of go to university. One element of this approach would be the need to upgrade our vocational curriculum massively.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote:
(02-01-2019 01:52 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(01-31-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote: Testing is solely a function of what the state wants to do, not common core
Common core is an effort to help students in our increasingly mobile society. If you move from one state to another, you shouldn't miss things in Math or English. And its an effort to make sure things are covered at the appropriate ages. There are efforts to create a Common core in other subjects, but none of those have been adopted anywhere (and I don't think any are complete).
Most critics of common core have no clue what it is. Some of the critics have serious points, but most are anxious to display their total ignorance of the topic. You will never see a group make such idiots of themselves as at a meeting on Common core, not even Democrats at a Russian conspiracy hearing.
That was one of the thoughts behind it.
But think about the practicality...
If Massachusetts (or NJ, based on the ranking source) has the BEST public education in the U.S. and Nevada has worst (source below) how do we think CCSS (Common Core State Standards) impacted each system?
Did the 49 remaining states up their games to match Mass?
Did Mass have to drop standards to meet somewhere in the middle?
Regardless, several years of test results are in and the results are opposite of what was expected and show CCSS to be a failure.
By the way, I've studied the UN directives which led to global education changes. The U.S. has had to be very careful in how it implemented the U.N. directives given that the U.S. federal government has no constitutional control over education.
To garner the needed control the fed Dpt of Ed $$$ subjects the states to federal control. Federal money can't be used A, B or C; therefore, the state systems cannot engage in A, B or C.
I can explain the process where Race To The Top (RTTT) was implemented.
New standards were being developed in accordance with CCSS but they had not been published.
The feds dangled additional funding $$$ for states to adopt RTTT prior to standards being publicized. The earlier the state adopted the soon-to-be-released RTTT standards, the more $$$ the state received.
Tennessee was one of the first states to jump on board.
At the time, my state senator was Delores Gresham ®. She was the Chair of the state Education Committee.
Several of my citizen group colleagues and I spoke with her often about the impact of CCSS, but this was after the fact.
Once states signed on to RTTT the standards were published later.
I don't see anything about your quotes or your link that is particularly relevant to the topic of common core.
Also the USA Today article doesn't explain how it comes up with those rankings. Texas is 40 but has the 5th highest graduation rate and is 28th in bachelor's degrees and income above the national median (not that either of those are directly related to schools). It is 4th lowest in spending per capita, but if it is 5th in graduation rate, it sounds like it is doing pretty well. And having gone to schools in Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio and Texas and having kids in Texas and Georgia schools, I can say Texas is well ahead of all of them.
I acknowledge that different rankings show different results.
My point in showing the rankings was related to your comment suggesting one of CCSS's positives is similar objectives and measurements from state to state.
If the 50 state school districts performed at the same level this wouldn't be an issue. The fact that Mass ranks 1st (best) and Nevada ranks 50th (worst) demonstrates there are profound differences between the two systems.
If a child were to move from Nevada to Mass, how would he be able to keep up? He couldn't in a competitive platform where school systems strive to be the best.
He could only keep up if the Mass standards were drastically lowered.
That's what CCSS did. It did NOT keep the hig Mass standards and apply them to all other 49 states. It dumbed them down significantly.
You would think the losers would be the school systems which had a history of high performance. In fact, all school systems were losers, as demonstrated by the CCSS testing results.
RE: Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
(02-01-2019 11:46 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(02-01-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote:
(02-01-2019 01:52 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(01-31-2019 06:15 PM)bullet Wrote: Testing is solely a function of what the state wants to do, not common core
Common core is an effort to help students in our increasingly mobile society. If you move from one state to another, you shouldn't miss things in Math or English. And its an effort to make sure things are covered at the appropriate ages. There are efforts to create a Common core in other subjects, but none of those have been adopted anywhere (and I don't think any are complete).
Most critics of common core have no clue what it is. Some of the critics have serious points, but most are anxious to display their total ignorance of the topic. You will never see a group make such idiots of themselves as at a meeting on Common core, not even Democrats at a Russian conspiracy hearing.
That was one of the thoughts behind it.
But think about the practicality...
If Massachusetts (or NJ, based on the ranking source) has the BEST public education in the U.S. and Nevada has worst (source below) how do we think CCSS (Common Core State Standards) impacted each system?
Did the 49 remaining states up their games to match Mass?
Did Mass have to drop standards to meet somewhere in the middle?
Regardless, several years of test results are in and the results are opposite of what was expected and show CCSS to be a failure.
By the way, I've studied the UN directives which led to global education changes. The U.S. has had to be very careful in how it implemented the U.N. directives given that the U.S. federal government has no constitutional control over education.
To garner the needed control the fed Dpt of Ed $$$ subjects the states to federal control. Federal money can't be used A, B or C; therefore, the state systems cannot engage in A, B or C.
I can explain the process where Race To The Top (RTTT) was implemented.
New standards were being developed in accordance with CCSS but they had not been published.
The feds dangled additional funding $$$ for states to adopt RTTT prior to standards being publicized. The earlier the state adopted the soon-to-be-released RTTT standards, the more $$$ the state received.
Tennessee was one of the first states to jump on board.
At the time, my state senator was Delores Gresham ®. She was the Chair of the state Education Committee.
Several of my citizen group colleagues and I spoke with her often about the impact of CCSS, but this was after the fact.
Once states signed on to RTTT the standards were published later.
I don't see anything about your quotes or your link that is particularly relevant to the topic of common core.
Also the USA Today article doesn't explain how it comes up with those rankings. Texas is 40 but has the 5th highest graduation rate and is 28th in bachelor's degrees and income above the national median (not that either of those are directly related to schools). It is 4th lowest in spending per capita, but if it is 5th in graduation rate, it sounds like it is doing pretty well. And having gone to schools in Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio and Texas and having kids in Texas and Georgia schools, I can say Texas is well ahead of all of them.
I acknowledge that different rankings show different results.
My point in showing the rankings was related to your comment suggesting one of CCSS's positives is similar objectives and measurements from state to state.
If the 50 state school districts performed at the same level this wouldn't be an issue. The fact that Mass ranks 1st (best) and Nevada ranks 50th (worst) demonstrates there are profound differences between the two systems.
If a child were to move from Nevada to Mass, how would he be able to keep up? He couldn't in a competitive platform where school systems strive to be the best.
He could only keep up if the Mass standards were drastically lowered.
That's what CCSS did. It did NOT keep the hig Mass standards and apply them to all other 49 states. It dumbed them down significantly.
You would think the losers would be the school systems which had a history of high performance. In fact, all school systems were losers, as demonstrated by the CCSS testing results.
Now I understand your point. But the idea isn't same performance. There are far more massive gaps in performance within states than between states. The idea is covering the same material. What if Nevada covered multiplication in 3rd grade and MA covered it in 2nd and a student moved from NV to MA for 3rd grade. They would be lost.
Same for English. What if parts of speech were covered in different grades?
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[NEWS] Gov. DeSantis announces executive order to eliminate Common Core in Florida
