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TTT Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Football recruiting
I'm super lazy...can someone post the recruiting rankings for the last, oh I don't know, 10 years of CUSA champions?
01-31-2019 02:33 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #22
RE: Football recruiting
(01-31-2019 02:23 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 01:09 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 09:39 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Here is a couple CUSA schools with class ranking and how their season went

2012 #1 class
2013 #2 class 1-11
2014 #3 class 3-9
2015 #5 class 9-5
2016 #6 class 7-6
2017 #2 class 8-5
2018..............6-5

COACHING MATTERS

2012 6th
2013 6th..8-4
2014 5th...8-4
2015 11th..12-2
2016 7th...11-3
2017 4th..6-7
2018 6th ..3-9

COACHING MATTERS

If you go by your comment earlier that the class is 2 years removed from paying off, the results you posted above seem to follow the trend that the recruiting class ranking does matter and impacts win column.

Coaching/system is the most important factor in CUSA. The class rankings could be the difference of 26 players signed vs 20. Class ranking is not based on who signed higher rated players...mostly who has the largest class. Not always the case but more times than not.

I will trade out a #1 ranked class for a middle of the pack class for a good coach running a exciting system, that can put 40 points on the scoreboard.

Nothing is always....

part of each class will never step on the fb field

Below is Western bottom 25 ranked recruits since 2010 (lowest ranked) and 3 of those played in the NFL and 3 or 4 others started on 2 conference championship teams
Joe Brown 2014 0.733
R.J. Scaife 2014 0.733
Delryn Wilson 2011 0.7332
Cam Lewis 2013 0.7333
Aaron Jackson 2013 0.7333
Mitchell Henry 2011 0.7333
Darrell Young 2013 0.7333
De'Andre Simmons 2013 0.7333
Darrell Williams 2011 0.7333
Gavin Rocker 2011 0.7333
Jamichael Payne 2011 0.7333
Marquez Pride 2012 0.7333
Kalvin Robinson 2013 0.7333
Bryan Shorter 2011 0.7333
Kylen Towner 2013 0.7333
Brandon Ray 2013 0.7333
T.J. Smith 2013 0.7333
James Mauro 2013 0.7333
Dimitri Johnson 2011 0.7333
Tim Gorski 2011 0.7333
Jimmie Sims 2013 0.7333
Devin Scott 2011 0.7333
Dalton Patterson 2013 0.7333
Dwayne Montgomery 2011 0.7382
John Evans 2011 0.7432
Tyler Higbee 2011 0.7443

Here's the top 25 highest rated players at Western


Manuel Allen 2019 0.8866
DaMarcus Smith 2011 0.8705
Joe Fennell 2013 0.8687
Anthony Wales 2012 0.8667
Kevaris Thomas 2018 0.8667
Mik'Quan Deane 2017 0.8562
Cameron Clemmons 2010 0.8556
Reese Ryan 2015 0.8534
Dalvin Smith 2019 0.8499
Brandon Doughty 2010 0.8479
Terez Traynor 2018 0.8466
Arthur Brathwaite 2018 0.8466
Avonta Crim 2018 0.8465
Calder Marria 2017 0.8462
Juwuan Jones 2017 0.8462
Quinton Baker 2016 0.8434
Jeremy Darvin 2016 0.8431
Garland LaFrance 2018 0.8431
Daqual Randall 2012 0.8422
Xavier Lane 2016 0.8422
Lichon Terrell 2018 0.8416
Dejon Brown 2014 0.8412
B.J. Sharpe 2017 0.8409
Kyle Bailey 2017 0.8355
Troy Ingle 2018 0.8339

The bold did not sign with Western but still listed in the signing class by 247

the underlined transfered out because they could not get playing time
The red played starting roles. The rest have yet to prove themselves or played minor roles
01-31-2019 02:47 PM
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TruBlu Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Football recruiting
G5 Top25 Recruiting Classes per 24/7 (national rank):

1. UCF (53)
2. Memphis (60)
3. Toledo (63)
4. Marshall (65)
5. SMU (68)
6. ULL (69)
7. NT (70)
8. USF (71)
9. Troy (72)
10. USM (73)
11. MTSU (75)
12. Cincinnati (76)
13. ECU (77)
14. UAB (78)
15. FAU (79)
16. WMU (81)
17. Miami-OH (82)
18. Temple (83)
19. Utah St. (84)
20. Ohio (85)
21. LaTech (86)
22. Tulane (87)
23. Colorado St. (88)
24. WKU (89)
25. Ark St. (90)

Awarding first place 25 points & twenty-fifth place 1 point:
AAC 127
CUSA 102
MAC 48
SBC 38
MWC 10
01-31-2019 04:18 PM
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Lizard Breath Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Football recruiting
Why is UTSA #3 on Rivals & 9 on 247? How can it be that far off?
01-31-2019 04:38 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Football recruiting
Quinton Baker transferred out because he couldn't get playing time, or got kicked off the team because he kept getting arrested?
01-31-2019 05:36 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Football recruiting
4 years is when the recruit pays off. Their junior and senior seasons will be their most productive. Measure the success 4 years from the signing class.
01-31-2019 07:28 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Football recruiting
(01-31-2019 04:38 PM)Lizard Breath Wrote:  Why is UTSA #3 on Rivals & 9 on 247? How can it be that far off?

Rivals is a more passive system where 247 seems to be more proactive. You really need to have an active Rivals site admin for your school's site to get good content upgraded on time. Our Rivals site is way off because we haven't had an admin for about a year now.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 10:52 AM by 49RFootballNow.)
02-04-2019 10:52 AM
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SouthernMiss3613 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Football recruiting
(02-04-2019 10:52 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 04:38 PM)Lizard Breath Wrote:  Why is UTSA #3 on Rivals & 9 on 247? How can it be that far off?

Rivals is a more passive system where 247 seems to be more proactive. You really need to have an active Rivals site admin for your school's site to get good content upgraded on time. Our Rivals site is way off because we haven't had an admin for about a year now.


We are usually ranked higher in 247 and lower in Rivals. Rivals is definitely the better site. 247's computer formula seems to give everyone 3 stars and projects recruits will commit to teams that haven't even offered them a scholarship. Very odd.
02-04-2019 11:39 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Football recruiting
(02-04-2019 11:39 AM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 10:52 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 04:38 PM)Lizard Breath Wrote:  Why is UTSA #3 on Rivals & 9 on 247? How can it be that far off?

Rivals is a more passive system where 247 seems to be more proactive. You really need to have an active Rivals site admin for your school's site to get good content upgraded on time. Our Rivals site is way off because we haven't had an admin for about a year now.


We are usually ranked higher in 247 and lower in Rivals. Rivals is definitely the better site. 247's computer formula seems to give everyone 3 stars and projects recruits will commit to teams that haven't even offered them a scholarship. Very odd.

If you have an active Rivals admin for your site who is competent then it can be a great asset.................but if you don't..........

Let's just say this topic reminded me to cancel my subscription.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 01:22 PM by 49RFootballNow.)
02-04-2019 01:19 PM
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wh49er Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Football recruiting
(02-04-2019 11:39 AM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  247's computer formula seems to give everyone 3 stars and projects recruits will commit to teams that haven't even offered them a scholarship.

The crystal ball feature on 247 sports is definitely a marketing ploy.
02-04-2019 01:29 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Football recruiting
(01-31-2019 04:18 PM)TruBlu Wrote:  G5 Top25 Recruiting Classes per 24/7 (national rank):

1. UCF (53)
2. Memphis (60)
3. Toledo (63)
4. Marshall (65)
5. SMU (68)
6. ULL (69)
7. NT (70)
8. USF (71)
9. Troy (72)
10. USM (73)
11. MTSU (75)
12. Cincinnati (76)
13. ECU (77)
14. UAB (78)
15. FAU (79)
16. WMU (81)
17. Miami-OH (82)
18. Temple (83)
19. Utah St. (84)
20. Ohio (85)
21. LaTech (86)
22. Tulane (87)
23. Colorado St. (88)
24. WKU (89)
25. Ark St. (90)

Awarding first place 25 points & twenty-fifth place 1 point:
AAC 127
CUSA 102
MAC 48
SBC 38
MWC 10

Missing from your list: 1. BSU (47).
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 04:52 PM by Bronco85.)
02-04-2019 04:30 PM
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Lizard Breath Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Football recruiting
I think both are good and bad. It's hard to look at one & say it's better than the other. Too many variables.
02-04-2019 08:41 PM
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Seminowl Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Football recruiting
Today is the day. A lot of buzz around what many believe is Kiffins first true signing class. Kiffin said he would initially recruit JUCOs/ Grad transfers to fill in the holes and eventually transition to heavily recruiting from high schools.
02-06-2019 10:24 AM
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Sideshow2313 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Football recruiting
Some of Marshall commitments will not sign. On rivals they have 30 commitment while can only add 25. MALIK TOLBERT for example has academic issues and MU might not want to waste a S'ship. Good kid but didn't excel in classroom. Colleges can only give out 25 in a year.

Edit: Tolbert told did sign so I was wrong. Great pickup by MU.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2019 12:16 PM by Sideshow2313.)
02-06-2019 11:43 AM
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Seminowl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Football recruiting
(02-04-2019 11:39 AM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 10:52 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 04:38 PM)Lizard Breath Wrote:  Why is UTSA #3 on Rivals & 9 on 247? How can it be that far off?

Rivals is a more passive system where 247 seems to be more proactive. You really need to have an active Rivals site admin for your school's site to get good content upgraded on time. Our Rivals site is way off because we haven't had an admin for about a year now.


We are usually ranked higher in 247 and lower in Rivals. Rivals is definitely the better site. 247's computer formula seems to give everyone 3 stars and projects recruits will commit to teams that haven't even offered them a scholarship. Very odd.
247’s system is updated more frequently and the projections are made by “experts”, usually media, you can check the prediction percentage on their respective pages. 247 is much more reliable. Too many schools are inactive on rivals making their rankings, commits, decommits have very little value.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2019 12:13 PM by Seminowl.)
02-06-2019 12:06 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Football recruiting
(02-06-2019 11:43 AM)Sideshow2313 Wrote:  Some of Marshall commitments will not sign. On rivals they have 30 commitment while can only add 25. MALIK TOLBERT for example has academic issues and MU might not want to waste a S'ship. Good kid but didn't excel in classroom. Colleges can only give out 25 in a year.

Since Marshall accepts NQers, the kid can sign and be a NQer, NQers do not take up a scholarship, they are required to pay their own way as a NQer and can not use athletic facilities or practice with the team. Also coaches have a limited amount of time they can interact with NQers. They also do not count against the APR until they are officially part of the roster.

Marshall and Doc himself have been pretty successful taking NQers. Brenden Knox (2017-present), Frankie Hernandez (2015-18), Jaquan Yulee (2017-present), Darius Hodge (2018-present) are just a few that Marshall has taken over the past few years. If you wanna go further back then there is Vinny Curry (08-11, 2nd draft pick Philadelphia Eagles, Tampa Bay Bucs) and Mike Bartrum (1989-93, 13 yr NFL vet that played for KC, GB, NE and Philly)
02-06-2019 12:16 PM
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Seminowl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Football recruiting
(01-30-2019 09:39 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Here is a couple CUSA schools with class ranking and how their season went

2012 #1 class
2013 #2 class 1-11
2014 #3 class 3-9
2015 #5 class 9-5
2016 #6 class 7-6
2017 #2 class 8-5
2018..............6-5

COACHING MATTERS

2012 6th
2013 6th..8-4
2014 5th...8-4
2015 11th..12-2
2016 7th...11-3
2017 4th..6-7
2018 6th ..3-9

COACHING MATTERS

Obviously coaching does matter, but your own stats prove recruiting also matters. 3-4 after recruitment the classes reflect their value.

Also, the completeness if a class is important. Look at FAU for example, we struggled because of an incomplete team (poor kicking, entire O Line injured). The completeness (number of recruits) is definitely a factor, but if you choose to focus only on the quality of recruit, 247 also has a metric for that. The 2011 class for that last example was ranked #2 and they lead you to winning seasons during their upperclassman years. Besides that didn’t Brandon Doughty play for like 10 years? I’m sure if you average it out for all teams you will see there is a major correlation between recruiting and on the field success.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2019 12:53 PM by Seminowl.)
02-06-2019 12:46 PM
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MU ATO Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Football recruiting
NCAA screwed up by allowing the early signing period in football. What had turned into an NFL Draft like day of football has been watered down and neither day really has the impact of just a few years ago.
02-06-2019 02:52 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Football recruiting
(02-06-2019 12:16 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(02-06-2019 11:43 AM)Sideshow2313 Wrote:  Some of Marshall commitments will not sign. On rivals they have 30 commitment while can only add 25. MALIK TOLBERT for example has academic issues and MU might not want to waste a S'ship. Good kid but didn't excel in classroom. Colleges can only give out 25 in a year.

Since Marshall accepts NQers, the kid can sign and be a NQer, NQers do not take up a scholarship, they are required to pay their own way as a NQer and can not use athletic facilities or practice with the team. Also coaches have a limited amount of time they can interact with NQers. They also do not count against the APR until they are officially part of the roster.

Marshall and Doc himself have been pretty successful taking NQers. Brenden Knox (2017-present), Frankie Hernandez (2015-18), Jaquan Yulee (2017-present), Darius Hodge (2018-present) are just a few that Marshall has taken over the past few years. If you wanna go further back then there is Vinny Curry (08-11, 2nd draft pick Philadelphia Eagles, Tampa Bay Bucs) and Mike Bartrum (1989-93, 13 yr NFL vet that played for KC, GB, NE and Philly)

So do they actually "sign"? It's the same as going to JUCO to get grades up but you bring them to Marshall right? They can leave and go wherever they want without transfer rules effecting them at the end of the year, no?
02-06-2019 03:42 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Football recruiting
Yes, the mindset is get kids in school, on track academically and moving forward toward their degree than going Juco. Juco academics are sketchy mostly and a joke at worst. Most NQ’s seem to have the GPA, as they did/will graduate HS; most just flubbed in the ACT or SAT.
02-06-2019 03:59 PM
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