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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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OT: Denver Update

(This post was last modified: 01-29-2019 07:09 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
01-29-2019 07:09 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
Hahaha.
01-29-2019 10:26 PM
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ProfScott Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
The Summit as a whole is plummeting this year and Denver is at the bottom of the Summit. KenPom actually had the Summit listed above the WAC at the beginning of this year but now the Summit is ranked #24 (-5.73) while the WAC is #14 (-0.87). Two conferences going in opposite directions.
01-30-2019 12:07 PM
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ProfScott Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.
01-30-2019 12:30 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
Just curious why are we talking about Denver U?
01-30-2019 02:13 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
Denver basketball has been on a steady decline since they left the WAC in 2013. Their attendance in the WAC in 2012-2013 was 3,312. They had three home games of over 5,000 in attendance (NMSU, Louisiana Tech, Idaho). This season they are averaging 1,116 in attendance and have not gone over 2,000 in a game.

Denver has lost to UVU by 23, Seattle by 19 and Northern Colorado at home by 16. But the highlight had to be their loss on the road at Macomb, Illinois to WIU. They lost that game 78-60 in front of 342 fans. It is bad enough that Denver has to play four conference road games in the Dakotas. At least the fans show up.

The Summit League is a Dakota league. The post-season tournament is played in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. A Dakota school has won the post-season tournament seven straight years and should make that eight this year. Denver basketball recruiting is going nowhere. They need to be in a western conference with bigger markets. Denver is the only school in the Summit in a top 50 TV market. The WAC has six schools in the top 35, including four ranked higher than Denver.

Unfortunately, the Summit has a $1 million exit fee for leaving the conference. They will not be leaving that conference anytime soon. Their AD in 2013 overreacted to the idea of being in a conference with GCU, which on reflection looks pretty shortsighted. As long as NMSU was in the conference, they should have stayed. Moving to the Summit was a bad idea.
01-30-2019 02:26 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
Denver’s move to the Summit wasn’t about mbb, it was about hockey, even though it isn’t included. Denver has rivalries against Omaha and UND. Denver and UND have a series this weekend at DU where DU always charges higher than normal prices because they know mostly Dakota expats will pay the price. Yeah, UND was not in the league at the time, but have always contended there was a plan that hasn’t been completed yet.

DU and UND share second place in most hockey national championships with 8, as Michigan has 9 but most came more than a half century ago.

The DU-UND rivalry will spill over to other sports.

DU depends on hockey and lacrosse for its athletic cash flow. Getting mbb up would be a bonus.

DU’s destination conference is neither the Summit nor the WAC, but the WCC when BYU leaves.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 02:54 PM by NoDak.)
01-30-2019 02:41 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.

Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the rest conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI

Chicago State
Lose (4) - Rob Shaw, Anthony Harris, Delshon Strickland, Ken Odiase
Add - Terrion Murdix (6'0, 165, FR) - Verbal, Rajeir Jones (6'3, 162, FR) - NLI, Andrew Lewis (6'3, 175, JC) - NLI, Kalil Whitehead (6'5, 190, Fr) - NLI

Grand Canyon
Lose (4) - Michael Finke, Trey Drechsel, Matt Jackson, Gerard Martin
Add - Jovan Blacksher (6'1, 165, FR) - NLI, Mikey Dixon (6'2, 160, Jr-TR) - St John's Transfer, Isiah Brown (6'2, 175, RS-Jr) - Northwestern Transfer, JJ Rhymes (6'4, 210, RS-Jr) - 2018 Top 100 JC

New Mexico State
Lose (3) - Eli Chuha, JoJo Zamora, Keyon Jones
Add - Addison Wallace (6'3, 200, RS-Fr), Junub Char Chuol (6'4, 165, RS-Fr), William McNair (6'10, 270, RS-Fr)

Seattle U
Lose (2) - Deshawn McDowell (transfer), Jacob Eyman (transfer)
Add - ???

UM Kansas City
Lose (1) - Aleer Leek
Add - DeMarco Smith (6'2, 165, RS-So), Ken Strawberry (6'4, 190, RS-Fr), Tony Jackson (6'5, 205, RS-So), Will Magnum (6'5, 195, RS-Fr)

UT Rio Grande Valley
Lose (4) - Tyson Smith, Soloman Hainna, Terry Winn III, Johnny Crnogorac
Add - Quinton Johnson (6'4, 190, RS-Fr), Connor Raines (6'6, 190, Fr) - NLI, Jamal Gaines (6'8, 215, RS-Fr), Sean Rhea (6'8, 230, JC) - Verbal

Utah Valley
Lose (3) - Conner Toolson, Ben Nakwaasah, Connor McDougall
Add - Brandon Averette (5'11, 185, RS-Jr) - Oklahoma State Transfer, Jacob Heese (6'3, 200, So-TR) - NLI, Cavit Havsa (6'4, 165, RS-Jr) - Fordham Transfer, Spencer Johnson (6'5, 175, So-TR) - Weber State Transfer (verbal), Casdon Jardine (6'7, 218, RS-Jr) - Boise State Transfer

I see Cal Baptist, Cal State Bakersfield, and Utah Valley adding players who will make an immediate impact; and could make them better.

I see GCU, NMSU, Seattle U relying on mostly returnees to hold serve or possibly strengthen.

And, I see UMKC, UTRGV, and Chicago State closing the gap on the top tier team. The records might not reflect it but the scores will be more competitive.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 03:09 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
01-30-2019 02:49 PM
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RunnerBall Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 02:13 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Just curious why are we talking about Denver U?

We're just waiting for David St to come tell us WHEN DU will be added back. 03-wink
01-30-2019 03:00 PM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.

Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI


.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em. 02-13-banana

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

[Image: ac13c692a82d7c8ae9c25312a726329b.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 03:20 PM by gleadley.)
01-30-2019 03:07 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: OT: Denver Update
WAC - #15 RPI
Summit - #27 RPI

Denver might want to rethink.
01-30-2019 03:33 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 02:13 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Just curious why are we talking about Denver U?

Because we like them. And it's fun to say "DU is P.U." or "DU! You stink."

03-lmfao
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 03:36 PM by jdgaucho.)
01-30-2019 03:35 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  
Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI


.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em. 02-13-banana

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

[Image: ac13c692a82d7c8ae9c25312a726329b.jpg]

But CSUB still has ONE more season in the WAC. They can't enter the Big West until UC San Diego is ready to join... that will be May of 2020.

However, once they join the BWC, given that Jarkel Joinner will then be a Senior, they should dominate.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 03:51 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
01-30-2019 03:50 PM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 03:50 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  
Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI


.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em. 02-13-banana

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

[Image: ac13c692a82d7c8ae9c25312a726329b.jpg]

But CSUB still has ONE more season in the WAC. They can't enter the Big West until UC San Diego is ready to join... that will be May of 2020.

However, once they join the BWC, given that Jarkel Joinner will then be a Senior, they should dominate.

Ahhhhh... My mistake. I thought they were gone after this year. So, maybe it'll just be half a cake. They can have the other half after the 2020 season.
01-30-2019 04:41 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 04:41 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 03:50 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  
Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI


.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em. 02-13-banana

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

[Image: ac13c692a82d7c8ae9c25312a726329b.jpg]

But CSUB still has ONE more season in the WAC. They can't enter the Big West until UC San Diego is ready to join... that will be May of 2020.

However, once they join the BWC, given that Jarkel Joinner will then be a Senior, they should dominate.

Ahhhhh... My mistake. I thought they were gone after this year. So, maybe it'll just be half a cake. They can have the other half after the 2020 season.

Yup, as Cal State Bakersfield leaves, Dixie State enters. We trade Roadrunners for Trailblazers and remain at nine members. I guess we should start scoping out DSU's 2019 & 2020 recruiting classes leading up to their first WAC season.
01-30-2019 05:37 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
While I do find it hilarious how Denver bolted and ended up in a much worse conference, I think few people anywhere (myself included) could have predicted how solid the conference would be at this point considering the types of programs joining it. Compared to how they were just a few years ago, UVU, GCU, Seattle, Bakersield, and UTRGV have all made tremendous strides. I don't have the figures, but their RPI rankings have to be night and day difference. I don't think any conference has improved its quality as much as the WAC has in the past 5 years. And even better, its the programs themselves improving, not done by adding better quality members. Bravo WAC!
01-31-2019 01:53 AM
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ProfScott Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-31-2019 01:53 AM)Todor Wrote:  While I do find it hilarious how Denver bolted and ended up in a much worse conference, I think few people anywhere (myself included) could have predicted how solid the conference would be at this point considering the types of programs joining it. Compared to how they were just a few years ago, UVU, GCU, Seattle, Bakersield, and UTRGV have all made tremendous strides. I don't have the figures, but their RPI rankings have to be night and day difference. I don't think any conference has improved its quality as much as the WAC has in the past 5 years. And even better, its the programs themselves improving, not done by adding better quality members. Bravo WAC!
I do not have access to the RPI ratings over the last 5 years but here are the KenPom results. The WAC is definitely on the rise, especially this year.

Team 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
NMSU 98 111 84 60 60
GCU 263 130 152 121 74
UVU 321 283 147 92 109
SU 244 294 265 195 166
CSUB 241 110 90 242 185
UTRGV 335 348 300 260 192
UMKC 286 250 219 276 234
CSU 327 347 335 346 347
AVG 264 234 199 199 171

Not sure how to get these columns to align properly. Sorry about that.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2019 09:29 AM by ProfScott.)
01-31-2019 09:18 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-30-2019 02:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  DU’s destination conference is neither the Summit nor the WAC, but the WCC when BYU leaves.

If/when BYU leaves, Denver will not be in the WCC. They can prefer it all day, but the WCC isn't going to replace BYU with Denver. Does DU have a spot in the GNC though? We really want to hear about the secret president meetings and such,
01-31-2019 09:26 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
Denver will really never join again if the WAC ever adds Metro State. Metro State wanted to change its name to Denver State at on point and Denver sued them. Denver administrators sound like they have issues. This is for you my GCU brethren. I love having GCU in the WAC much more than having Denver. GCU has the market, fans that go to games and a team I can hate year in and year out!
01-31-2019 10:09 AM
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ProfScott Offline
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RE: OT: Denver Update
(01-31-2019 10:09 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Denver will really never join again if the WAC ever adds Metro State. Metro State wanted to change its name to Denver State at on point and Denver sued them. Denver administrators sound like they have issues. This is for you my GCU brethren. I love having GCU in the WAC much more than having Denver. GCU has the market, fans that go to games and a team I can hate year in and year out!
Ahh, I am touched Dancing. We love having NMSU in the WAC for the very same reasons. 04-cheers
01-31-2019 02:52 PM
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