(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.

Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the rest conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI

Chicago State
Lose (4) - Rob Shaw, Anthony Harris, Delshon Strickland, Ken Odiase
Add - Terrion Murdix (6'0, 165, FR) - Verbal, Rajeir Jones (6'3, 162, FR) - NLI, Andrew Lewis (6'3, 175, JC) - NLI, Kalil Whitehead (6'5, 190, Fr) - NLI

Grand Canyon
Lose (4) - Michael Finke, Trey Drechsel, Matt Jackson, Gerard Martin
Add - Jovan Blacksher (6'1, 165, FR) - NLI, Mikey Dixon (6'2, 160, Jr-TR) - St John's Transfer, Isiah Brown (6'2, 175, RS-Jr) - Northwestern Transfer, JJ Rhymes (6'4, 210, RS-Jr) - 2018 Top 100 JC

New Mexico State
Lose (3) - Eli Chuha, JoJo Zamora, Keyon Jones
Add - Addison Wallace (6'3, 200, RS-Fr), Junub Char Chuol (6'4, 165, RS-Fr), William McNair (6'10, 270, RS-Fr)

Seattle U
Lose (2) - Deshawn McDowell (transfer), Jacob Eyman (transfer)
Add - ???

UM Kansas City
Lose (1) - Aleer Leek
Add - DeMarco Smith (6'2, 165, RS-So), Ken Strawberry (6'4, 190, RS-Fr), Tony Jackson (6'5, 205, RS-So), Will Magnum (6'5, 195, RS-Fr)

UT Rio Grande Valley
Lose (4) - Tyson Smith, Soloman Hainna, Terry Winn III, Johnny Crnogorac
Add - Quinton Johnson (6'4, 190, RS-Fr), Connor Raines (6'6, 190, Fr) - NLI, Jamal Gaines (6'8, 215, RS-Fr), Sean Rhea (6'8, 230, JC) - Verbal

Utah Valley
Lose (3) - Conner Toolson, Ben Nakwaasah, Connor McDougall
Add - Brandon Averette (5'11, 185, RS-Jr) - Oklahoma State Transfer, Jacob Heese (6'3, 200, So-TR) - NLI, Cavit Havsa (6'4, 165, RS-Jr) - Fordham Transfer, Spencer Johnson (6'5, 175, So-TR) - Weber State Transfer (verbal), Casdon Jardine (6'7, 218, RS-Jr) - Boise State Transfer

I see Cal Baptist, Cal State Bakersfield, and Utah Valley adding players who will make an immediate impact; and could make them better.

I see GCU, NMSU, Seattle U relying on mostly returnees to hold serve or possibly strengthen.

And, I see UMKC, UTRGV, and Chicago State closing the gap on the top tier team. The records might not reflect it but the scores will be more competitive.

Seattle U is apparently targeting grad transfers for their two open spots in 2019. The depth issues, the not unrealistic possibility Kavas transfers out on his own, and the fact this group, no seniors, when healthy can win the WAC but when hurt are exposed greatly, make the need too strong.

Hayford went 3/3 on GTs last year. Right now SU uses a 6-man rotation when fully healthy. The last few weeks theyve been forced to dip into true freshman walk ons with how bad the injuries have gotten.

Plus the only 2019 offer is Dishon Thomas, who with his novel-long list of offers, is unlikely to come to SU but would contribute immediately if he did

(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.

Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI

.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em.

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

So, any WAC success we may have doesn't bounce back any positive reflection on your program? I see....? Very good thinking.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

(02-02-2019 11:44 AM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.

Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI

.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em.

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

So, any WAC success we may have doesn't bounce back any positive reflection on your program? I see....? Very good thinking.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

It was honestly just kind of a joke, but I really don't see myself caring much about the successes and failures of CSUB in the Big West once the Runners are gone. The successes and/or failures of Idaho when they left for the Big Sky didn't really reflect positively or negatively on the WAC and its members. I expect the same for the Runners. Good luck and good riddance.

(02-02-2019 03:43 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 11:44 AM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 12:30 PM)ProfScott Wrote:  Here are the KenPom Rankings for the Summit and the WAC from 2012 to this year. 2012 was the last year the WAC had a positive ranking. 2013 was the only year Denver was in the WAC and 2014 was the first year GCU joined the WAC and Denver moved to the Summit. 2015 is the first year of the current WAC (minus CBU of course).

2012 WAC #12 (+0.64); SUMMIT #18 (-2.27)
2013 WAC #13 (-0.31); SUMMIT #23 (-6.22)
2014 SUMMIT #15 (-1.53); WAC #24 (-6.24)
2015 SUMMIT #22 (-4.20); WAC #31 (-10.26)
2016 SUMMIT #15 (-0.39); WAC #24 (-7.50)
2017 SUMMIT #16 (-2.14); WAC #17 (-2.89)
2018 SUMMIT #14 (-1.90); WAC #18 (-3.13)
2019 WAC #14 (-0.87); SUMMIT #24 (-5.73)

Unless this year us an anomaly, it seems like the WAC should be the better conference moving forward.

Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI

.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em.

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

So, any WAC success we may have doesn't bounce back any positive reflection on your program? I see....? Very good thinking.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

It was honestly just kind of a joke, but I really don't see myself caring much about the successes and failures of CSUB in the Big West once the Runners are gone. The successes and/or failures of Idaho when they left for the Big Sky didn't really reflect positively or negatively on the WAC and its members. I expect the same for the Runners. Good luck and good riddance.

Exactly. I’ve never even heard of that school before, definitely won’t follow them afterwards. They will become irrelevant again.

Personally nothing but best wishes to CSUB in the Big West. I feel like when Barnes leaves though, and I'm surprised he hasn't already, it will be tough to consistently win in the Big West as CSUB doesn't seem to have anything more appealing than other members. The arena, without knowing UCSDs, will probably be the worst in the conference though. If the program keeps growing hopefully they can remodel it.

As for the WAC, I don't think it will affect much and honestly I won't miss CSUB. Everytime SU plays them it feels dirty from the way CSUB plays and they seem to win more than half the time they play SU. There aren't really any fans to speak of besides RunnerBall and Clarity and nobody will miss Clarity. If they were the only California member I'd care more, but I'd much rather have Cal Baptist and CSUB leaves a sour taste to me for some reason. I'd rather have other California D2 move ups

Either way, I wish them well in the Big West which is the best conference for them. I won't root against them like Denver, since I can't blame them for leaving when it's their dream invite, but I won't make a point to root for them either like I probably would for other WAC schools if they left.

TL;DR: the play style and lack of fans plus some of their behavior leaves a sour taste in my mouth about CSUB. Won't root against them, but won't miss them. When Barnes leaves, good luck

(02-02-2019 07:07 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 03:43 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 11:44 AM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 02:49 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Up to this point, the Dakota schools have held up the honor of the Summit. Currently, South Dakota State is head and shoulders above the of the conference. In contrast, the WAC probably has four schools on the same level as South Dakota State. The WAC won the WAC/Summit Challenge 6-3. So, as a whole, the WAC is stronger than the Summit... and getting stronger.

Looks toward next season, barring any mass player exodus, the WAC "should" be even stronger next season.

Cal Baptist
Lose (1) - Jordan Heading
Add - Ferron Flavor (6'4, 190, RS-Jr) - Fairfield Transfer, Adam Hess (6'5, 195, RS-Fr), Tre Armstrong (6'5, 200, Fr) - NLI, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk (6'6, 182, Fr) - Verbal, Omar Lo (6'9, 210, RS-Sr) - D2 Transfer, Tristan Forsyth (6'9, 230, JC) - NLI

Cal State Bakersfield
Lose (4) - Rickey Holden, Damiyne Durham, James Suber, Bray Barnes
Add - DeMonte Buckningham (6'4 200, RS-Jr) - Richmond Transfer, Ray Somerville (6'9, 235, FR) - NLI, Ronne Readus (6'9, 250, JC) - 2019 Top 100 JC (#41) - NLI

.
.
.

Who? Never heard of 'em.

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

So, any WAC success we may have doesn't bounce back any positive reflection on your program? I see....? Very good thinking.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

It was honestly just kind of a joke, but I really don't see myself caring much about the successes and failures of CSUB in the Big West once the Runners are gone. The successes and/or failures of Idaho when they left for the Big Sky didn't really reflect positively or negatively on the WAC and its members. I expect the same for the Runners. Good luck and good riddance.

Exactly. I’ve never even heard of that school before, definitely won’t follow them afterwards. They will become irrelevant again.

First, congrats, 'Lopes, on the win last night.

I know, I know, kidding (and I'm serious, you are a fairly old-timer on the WAC 2.0 boards too like me). But, consider...like mentioned earlier, we're still in the WAC for another year. If we do well (like every other school in the conference), doesn't that raise all ships (think conference RPI)?

I get that when a school leaves a conference, there's this sentiment. Its not unusual. However, like all longtime posters here, how many members have wished they were offered a path. Had NMSU been offered a FB conference or SU the WCC, would you vilify them?

I guess I bring this up because not ALL CSUB fans are thrilled with the BW move. Yes, it has SOME benefits, fore-mostly money/budget related. It will though likely cost us in MBB, we know that. (Yes, I remember Clarity, but....hes gone and has been for a while). We're better off in MBB staying in the WAC (in its present state), and I regret that part of the change.

So, conference broken brotherhood/rivalries aside, I guess I'm saying don't lump me in with those that are throwing rocks at the WAC on their way out.

(02-03-2019 09:36 PM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 07:07 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 03:43 PM)gleadley Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 11:44 AM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 03:07 PM)gleadley Wrote:  Who? Never heard of 'em.

Just kidding. We'll all chip and get CSUB a cake after this season...

So, any WAC success we may have doesn't bounce back any positive reflection on your program? I see....? Very good thinking.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

It was honestly just kind of a joke, but I really don't see myself caring much about the successes and failures of CSUB in the Big West once the Runners are gone. The successes and/or failures of Idaho when they left for the Big Sky didn't really reflect positively or negatively on the WAC and its members. I expect the same for the Runners. Good luck and good riddance.

Exactly. I’ve never even heard of that school before, definitely won’t follow them afterwards. They will become irrelevant again.

First, congrats, 'Lopes, on the win last night.

I know, I know, kidding (and I'm serious, you are a fairly old-timer on the WAC 2.0 boards too like me). But, consider...like mentioned earlier, we're still in the WAC for another year. If we do well (like every other school in the conference), doesn't that raise all ships (think conference RPI)?

I get that when a school leaves a conference, there's this sentiment. Its not unusual. However, like all longtime posters here, how many members have wished they were offered a path. Had NMSU been offered a FB conference or SU the WCC, would you vilify them?

I guess I bring this up because not ALL CSUB fans are thrilled with the BW move. Yes, it has SOME benefits, fore-mostly money/budget related. It will though likely cost us in MBB, we know that. (Yes, I remember Clarity, but....hes gone and has been for a while). We're better off in MBB staying in the WAC (in its present state), and I regret that part of the change.

So, conference broken brotherhood/rivalries aside, I guess I'm saying don't lump me in with those that are throwing rocks at the WAC on their way out.

Runner, you have been classy through the whole transition. Clarity was like Nero playing his fiddle while Rome burned. You weren’t like that. I’m surprised by the comments. I actually wish you guys had stayed. I get what you are saying. We should all hope to benefit from each other in the time you have left. I don’t blame you guys for leaving. Bako to the BW is a no brainer. It’s the equivalent of NMSU getting a MWC invite. Glad you guys are having a good year and it’s benefiting the entire WAC.

Runner. One of the classiest posters of all time. CSUB to the Big West is a no brainer like PPosse says. Gonna miss you.

I appreciate it, thanks. And, having known Gabe here for a long time and on Scout, I get what he's saying, "If you're not with us, you're against us" in conference terms. That's actually pretty correct in reality. I guess I still kind of haven't wrapped my mind around it yet (I'm sure the BW guys say the same...lol) as this has been our only DI conference home, and its been good to us. At least the conference is more stable today than it was a year ago when the BW thing was announced. That I really DO feel better about.