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Bible classes in public schools?
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #1
Bible classes in public schools?
Great idea.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/educ...614567002/

A wave of “Bible literacy” bills emerging in state legislatures would allow more students in public high schools to study the Old and New Testaments.

Proposals from lawmakers in at least six states would require or encourage public schools to offer elective classes on the Bible’s literary and historical significance. That’s a more narrow focus than what’s typically covered in courses on world religions.

Done right, the bills are legal
This year, Bible literacy bills have been introduced in Florida, Indiana, Missouri, North Dakota, Virginia and West Virginia, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

At least three Bible literacy bills were considered in 2018 – in Alabama, Iowa and West Virginia – but none passed, according to the ACLU. Tennessee passed a related but slightly different bill.

The year before, Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin signed into law a Bible studies bill. It created guidelines for public high schools to offer electives on the literature of the Bible and Hebrew Scriptures.
01-28-2019 09:29 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
As long as they are electives and not required I see no issue with it. Judeo-Christain ideals are the foundation of western civilization.
01-28-2019 09:31 AM
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ummechengr Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  As long as they are electives and not required I see no issue with it. Judeo-Christain ideals are the foundation of western civilization.

This is generally how I feel. But, I'm still concerned with the idea of the government doing my job as it comes to the Biblical education of my kids. Also, there's enough disagreement among Christians on the proper context and meaning of passages....what's the government gonna do with that?
01-28-2019 09:45 AM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
The historical aspects are pretty neat. I like watching those docs that examine the historical evidence relative to both the Old and New Testament. I think most of them are on the History Channel. There are some youtube channels that have good info also.
01-28-2019 10:04 AM
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200yrs2late Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
If it is an elective, fine. Same for any other religion that makes up enough of the population that the school system services.
01-28-2019 10:20 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 09:29 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Great idea.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/educ...614567002/

A wave of “Bible literacy” bills emerging in state legislatures would allow more students in public high schools to study the Old and New Testaments.

Proposals from lawmakers in at least six states would require or encourage public schools to offer elective classes on the Bible’s literary and historical significance. That’s a more narrow focus than what’s typically covered in courses on world religions.

Done right, the bills are legal
This year, Bible literacy bills have been introduced in Florida, Indiana, Missouri, North Dakota, Virginia and West Virginia, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

At least three Bible literacy bills were considered in 2018 – in Alabama, Iowa and West Virginia – but none passed, according to the ACLU. Tennessee passed a related but slightly different bill.

The year before, Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin signed into law a Bible studies bill. It created guidelines for public high schools to offer electives on the literature of the Bible and Hebrew Scriptures.

Hard pass.

First thing would be having to hire people who are competent in bible classes. I'd want a resume with a bit more than "going to church".. Second, the bible is associated with the Jewish faith and Christianity. The various Christian denominations have different teachings and dogmas based on the same writings. Navigating those could open the district up to "issues". Third, if you're going to allow bible classes as part of the curriculum, you'll have to then make room for Koran, the Tripitaka, the Vedas, or any other holy teachings that the community might deem as needed. Can't discriminate. Which leads you back to the first point, hiring people competent to teach those books.

How about this. If you want your children to learn about the bible or ANY other holy book, contact your local church or prayer facility and sign them up for classes.

This isn't something that should be part of the public school curriculum.

And speaking of things that don't belong in the public school curriculum, let's eliminate all the courses that pride themselves on being PC or woke , indoctrinating about "social justice", global/climate/warming/change, etc. etc.
01-28-2019 10:34 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 10:34 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 09:29 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Great idea.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/educ...614567002/

A wave of “Bible literacy” bills emerging in state legislatures would allow more students in public high schools to study the Old and New Testaments.

Proposals from lawmakers in at least six states would require or encourage public schools to offer elective classes on the Bible’s literary and historical significance. That’s a more narrow focus than what’s typically covered in courses on world religions.

Done right, the bills are legal
This year, Bible literacy bills have been introduced in Florida, Indiana, Missouri, North Dakota, Virginia and West Virginia, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

At least three Bible literacy bills were considered in 2018 – in Alabama, Iowa and West Virginia – but none passed, according to the ACLU. Tennessee passed a related but slightly different bill.

The year before, Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin signed into law a Bible studies bill. It created guidelines for public high schools to offer electives on the literature of the Bible and Hebrew Scriptures.

Hard pass.

First thing would be having to hire people who are competent in bible classes. I'd want a resume with a bit more than "going to church".. Second, the bible is associated with the Jewish faith and Christianity. The various Christian denominations have different teachings and dogmas based on the same writings. Navigating those could open the district up to "issues". Third, if you're going to allow bible classes as part of the curriculum, you'll have to then make room for Koran, the Tripitaka, the Vedas, or any other holy teachings that the community might deem as needed. Can't discriminate. Which leads you back to the first point, hiring people competent to teach those books.

How about this. If you want your children to learn about the bible or ANY other holy book, contact your local church or prayer facility and sign them up for classes.

This isn't something that should be part of the public school curriculum.

And speaking of things that don't belong in the public school curriculum, let's eliminate all the courses that pride themselves on being PC or woke , indoctrinating about "social justice", global/climate/warming/change, etc. etc.

My child's public school did have discussions of the Koran and Veda and Buddhism in their World History class.
01-28-2019 10:37 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
Understanding the Bible and its influences is part of being educated. You can't truly understand literature without understanding the many allusions. You really can't understand literature from the 1600s-1800s without understanding something about Greek and Roman religion.
01-28-2019 10:39 AM
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Marc Mensa Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
As long as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and the rest of the worlds great religions are given equal coverage then a historical review of the beliefs of each is pertinent.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2019 11:34 AM by Marc Mensa.)
01-28-2019 11:33 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
Not everything is about LGBTQ. Don't bring it up again in this thread. If someone wants a thread about LGBT teachers and the bible, then make your own thread about it.
01-28-2019 11:34 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 10:39 AM)bullet Wrote:  Understanding the Bible and its influences is part of being educated. You can't truly understand literature without understanding the many allusions. You really can't understand literature from the 1600s-1800s without understanding something about Greek and Roman religion.

Studying it's influence as part of history is one thing, doing a bible "class" or "study" is another.

Fine line I don't think should be crossed.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2019 12:31 PM by BadgerMJ.)
01-28-2019 11:41 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
I think I'm with Badger on this one.

Entirely too many pitfalls with bringing it into the public schools.

It sounds like a good idea - I think in practice it could be way more sticky.

Think about it - religion is one of the few things in this world powerful enough that some people are willing to die for.....powerful stuff. You want to give public school teachers the license to teach "their interpretation" of it.......
01-28-2019 11:44 AM
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q5sys Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 10:04 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The historical aspects are pretty neat. I like watching those docs that examine the historical evidence relative to both the Old and New Testament. I think most of them are on the History Channel. There are some youtube channels that have good info also.

I mostly agree with Badger about the pitfalls.
But... that being said if this is simply a historical breakdown of the bible, I'm opposed to it as that would avoid all doctrinal debates.
However at that point I'd question the purpose. To really get anything out of any religious text you have to dive into its meaning, and that's not the sort of thing I think any High school level teacher is going to be doing. It's too much of a minefield.

I think its probably a good idea to save any philosophical analysis of religion until university where it's the students choice and the student is paying for it.
Also, religion at its best is addressing core fundamental concepts of the human condition. i'm not claiming that high school students couldn't get something out of it, but I think they would get more out of it waiting a few years and allowing their brain to continue to develop a bit more.
There's a massive difference in the capacity of abstract thought and reasoning between a 15yo and an 19yo.
01-28-2019 11:52 AM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 11:33 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  As long as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and the rest of the worlds great religions are given equal coverage then a historical review of the beliefs of each is pertinent.

Why on earth would we need equal coverage for an elective class?

If i take an elective class on Spanish language, are we going to give that class equal time to study Italian as well? Nope.. because the focus is on Spanish.

Why do we have to do this "If i have to learn about x, I better learn about y" as well? That's not how the world works...
01-28-2019 12:18 PM
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q5sys Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 12:18 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Why do we have to do this "If i have to learn about x, I better learn about y" as well? That's not how the world works...

Because they can't win on a level playing field of ideas. They have to be forced into everything to get any attention from younger more naive people who don't understand how the world works yet.

Anyone who's experienced life and had to fend for themselves realizes that 90% of the post modern ideas are nonsense. They sound good, but in reality they are worth less than poo. At least poo you can dry out and use for fuel... post modernism isn't even that minimally useful. Since they can't win the hearts and minds of people that understand life and reality, they have to go after people who aren't wise enough to see it for the BS that it is. That's why they left continually pushes to inject their narrative in every area of every aspect of life... and focus on younger and younger people. It's the only way their ideas can survive. It behaves like a virus; Infect, Take over, Work to Infect more.

Once again, it's about pushing their ideology... by any means... at any cost.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2019 12:25 PM by q5sys.)
01-28-2019 12:22 PM
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tigergreen Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 10:34 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  How about this. If you want your children to learn about the bible or ANY other holy book, contact your local church or prayer facility and sign them up for classes.

This isn't something that should be part of the public school curriculum.

Totally agree.

If you want to discuss the Bible or any other holy text as literature or its historical place, fine. A separate course in a public school, whether elective or not, is a bad idea.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2019 01:18 PM by tigergreen.)
01-28-2019 01:14 PM
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atsKnight Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
Christians are going to be persecuted no matter what we do. This book I read guarantees it.

Might as well take wins where we can get them.
01-28-2019 01:17 PM
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Marc Mensa Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 12:18 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 11:33 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  As long as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and the rest of the worlds great religions are given equal coverage then a historical review of the beliefs of each is pertinent.

Why on earth would we need equal coverage for an elective class?

If i take an elective class on Spanish language, are we going to give that class equal time to study Italian as well? Nope.. because the focus is on Spanish.

Why do we have to do this "If i have to learn about x, I better learn about y" as well? That's not how the world works...

Because the class can't advocate one religion over another... such is the nature of separating church and state.

if there were also individual studies in islam, judaism, etc... then maybe; but it really just opens up a pandora's box of issues. its best to leave the bible study to the churches and the 3 R's to the schools.... problem is, that's too much to ask for some christians who want to use the schools to evangelize.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2019 01:27 PM by Marc Mensa.)
01-28-2019 01:24 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Bible classes in public schools?
Given that the Founding Fathers explicitly stated that religious morality should be taught in schools, yes.

And given that the constitution has no say over education except if the school district accepts federal $$, then again yes.


By the way, schools systems could deny federal funds and fall out of federal oversight.

You'd be surprised by how little of the school budget comes from federal funds. And those funds are specifically earmarked for specific programs. Those monies do not get lumped in to the general fund to be used as needed.
01-28-2019 01:38 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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RE: Bible classes in public schools?
(01-28-2019 01:24 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 12:18 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 11:33 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  As long as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and the rest of the worlds great religions are given equal coverage then a historical review of the beliefs of each is pertinent.

Why on earth would we need equal coverage for an elective class?

If i take an elective class on Spanish language, are we going to give that class equal time to study Italian as well? Nope.. because the focus is on Spanish.

Why do we have to do this "If i have to learn about x, I better learn about y" as well? That's not how the world works...

Because the class can't advocate one religion over another... such is the nature of separating church and state.

if there were also individual studies in islam, judaism, etc... then maybe; but it really just opens up a pandora's box of issues. its best to leave the bible study to the churches and the 3 R's to the schools.... problem is, that's too much to ask for some christians who want to use the schools to evangelize.

Make it an elective. The student chooses.
01-28-2019 01:40 PM
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