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2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #61
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-26-2019 09:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.

And have B10 officials. Back in 2014 the refs took two TDs off the board for UC. One of the refs was doing the OH-IO cheer during the game and had a Brutus Buckeye tat.

Holy **** is there a link for this?
01-27-2019 08:26 PM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #62
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.
They had the balls in 2002!
01-27-2019 08:37 PM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #63
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-27-2019 08:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 09:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.

And have B10 officials. Back in 2014 the refs took two TDs off the board for UC. One of the refs was doing the OH-IO cheer during the game and had a Brutus Buckeye tat.

Holy **** is there a link for this?
I have never heard of this? I even looked at the Cincinnati paper for a mention of it?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/.../16362531/
01-27-2019 08:53 PM
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Captain Bearcat Online
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Post: #64
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-27-2019 08:53 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 08:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 09:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.

And have B10 officials. Back in 2014 the refs took two TDs off the board for UC. One of the refs was doing the OH-IO cheer during the game and had a Brutus Buckeye tat.

Holy **** is there a link for this?
I have never heard of this? I even looked at the Cincinnati paper for a mention of it?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/.../16362531/

The Cincinnati Enquirer hates our city.

It's a regular complaint on UC's board - the paper cheers when anything to do with the core city suffers (including UC). We thought it was bad back when it was run by suburban Cincinnatians, but it has gotten much worse since about 2010 when they fired most of the writers and brought in a bunch of cheap young writers from the East Coast.
01-28-2019 09:23 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #65
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-27-2019 08:53 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 08:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 09:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.

And have B10 officials. Back in 2014 the refs took two TDs off the board for UC. One of the refs was doing the OH-IO cheer during the game and had a Brutus Buckeye tat.

Holy **** is there a link for this?
I have never heard of this? I even looked at the Cincinnati paper for a mention of it?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/.../16362531/

Guys, I was speaking tongue-in-cheek about the tat--- but he might as we had one, the officiating was horrible back in 2014.

Captain Bearcat is right though, the Enquirer hates its own city* and puts very little effort into covering the university that wears its name on its chest. Most of their coverage is reactive-- broken on other outlets first. I've seen better coverage of UC in the Cleveland Plain-Dealer (a paper in a city 4 hours away) and ironically the Columbus Dispatch (home of OSU and 2 hours away).

* An example of the hate-- there are always articles by the staff diagnosing what is wrong with the people here and how they think it can be fixed.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2019 09:33 AM by CliftonAve.)
01-28-2019 09:32 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
BUT the SEC plays those awful FCS games in November so clearly the Big Ten schedule is superior.
01-28-2019 11:24 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-25-2019 06:22 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Nothing new; Big ten rarely schedules difficult. They usually prove they are over rated during bowl season.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bowl game win% for last five years:

SEC 57
B1G 54
XII 51
ACC 49
PAC 46

Who is it that is over rated?
01-28-2019 12:45 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-26-2019 05:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 09:48 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 02:26 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019?

Based on this comment, I expect you to defend Washington for having no P5 non-conference opponents scheduled in 2019, just because Washington, like Ohio State, played one in 2018. 07-coffee3

Washington only played one P5 in 2018 while Ohio State played two. Based on that, I'm much more willing to give OSU a pass for the following year than UW. I'm definitely very worthy of being criticized but I don't understand what about my comment above you deem invalid.

03-lmfao

Did you expect that no one would notice that you're referring to Ohio State playing Oregon State in 2018? Congratulations to ol' Urban. That's some courageous P5 scheduling right there! Maybe the new guy will schedule Kansas if he's looking for a nonconference challenge.

But of course you'd give Alabama credit for tough nonconference scheduling if they played Rutgers. Right?

Pick a side: either say Ohio State is playing nobody in 2019 and recognize their two P5 opponents in 2018 or acknowledge despite playing no P5 in 2019, their schedule has a P5 quality opponent(s) with Cincinnati, a top 25 team in 2018 and an additional potential solid team with FAU. Can't have it both ways unless you think there are only five good teams and Ohio State just isn't playing Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia, or whoever else you deem "good".
01-29-2019 05:41 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #69
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-27-2019 08:37 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.
They had the balls in 2002!

I remember that game well. One dropped Cincy pass in the end-zone in the closing moments of the game let OSU escape with a win. And that's precisely why they don't want to play in Cincy again.
01-29-2019 07:59 PM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #70
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-29-2019 07:59 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 08:37 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-26-2019 01:07 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:08 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  So Ohio State plays two P5 schools last season and gets crap for not having any scheduled in 2019? Cincinnati finished in the top 25, right? Isn't that a solid opponent? Not to mention, everyone craps on Ohio State for dodging Cincinnati and say how it would be a great rivalry but when they get them on the schedule people whine that OSU has a weak non-conference lineup. Can't please the haters so it's best to just ignore them.

The great thing is that we'll eventually see how strong or weak it ends up being.

I wouldn't say that Ohio State dodges Cincy, because we've played a few games in the last two decades and we play again in 2019. What I would say is that Ohio State dodges playing UC in Cincinnati. If home field advantage means anything, then the odds are always stacked in OSU's favor.

Of course, OSU did play their spring game in Cincy a few years ago, a classy way of rubbing our noses in it. But play Cincy in Cincy? They don't have the balls.
They had the balls in 2002!

I remember that game well. One dropped Cincy pass in the end-zone in the closing moments of the game let OSU escape with a win. And that's precisely why they don't want to play in Cincy again.
Yes, very well played game by Cincinnati. They could have easily won that game.

Again, they did play in Cincinnati so keep spinning it however you wish.

They have a great coach there in Fickell. Best of luck this coming year!
01-29-2019 08:40 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #71
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-27-2019 07:10 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 05:59 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 04:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The issue is hypocrisy. Saying one thing, particularly preaching that one thing, and then doing another.

Cheating in college sports is one thing for example. Cheating and then claiming you never cheat is hypocrisy.

The B10 has a lot of mouth regarding certain issues or perhaps it's more to the point to say that Michigan has a lot of mouth and the Big 10 follows along to the tune.

The genesis of much of the Big 10 mouth is animus toward the South's Jim Crow policies - a legitimate issue when Jim Crow ran almost all of the South. I'm not equating Jim Crow with Michigan and other upper Mid-West anti-Catholic bias. It's really not even a close thing. But it was a thing.


Claiming that you are somehow better because you schedule MAC type programs as opposed to FCS programs is that type of hypocrisy, especially if you can't beat the Southern schools when you do meet on the football field.
Hi Statefan! Since I've been pretty vocal on this thread I'd like to respond to your post.

First, 100% agree with your hypocrisy statement pertaining to cheating.

Next, I'm simply assuming but it sounds like you believe Michigan leads and the rest follow in this Conference? Well that would be completely false. Everybody has an equal voice in this conference and it is and always has been STABLE because of this.

The North (Big 10) has ill feelings towards racist Jim Crow laws? I'm just totally confused about this statement or why you made it to get your point across? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to see the point?

Lastly, I do know the Big 10 is 43-32 vs the ACC the last 20 years. Also, we are 34-48 vs the SEC. The ACC is 80-101vs the SEC. I would call this hypocrisy on your part too, would you agree with that? Only including the SEC in this conversation because you stated the BIG couldn't win games vs the South.

Anyways, I think we all have become a little bit of NCST fans with the Jimmy V foundation and what it does for cancer research. Like it was said, cancer touches us all and it surely has touched my family. Man, seeing him run across the court looking for someone to hug after winning the National championship. One of the greatest moments in sports history!

Take care!

Jim Crow died in the SEC in the very early 70's after John McKay's USC team routed Alabama using black players. The next year Bear offered his first scholarships to African American athletes. By the time Herschel and Bo were running roughshod over opponents Jim Crow was a distant memory. I doubt seriously that even that school up North still pays much mind to it. If they tried to use it in recruiting today the athletes themselves would laugh in their faces.

The real trick to discerning the ACC/SEC record is to subtract games won by Clemson and Florida State and then look at the ratio.

The ACC middle however is strengthening. Their emphasis of gridiron competitiveness a few years ago has paid some dividends. What they lack that the Big 10 and SEC have are schools capable of making a run. I count 6 in the Big 10 and 8 in the SEC. The ACC legitimately has no more than 4 and two of those have been down for a decade or longer.
Thank you for clearing the air on the Jim Crow statement. I have actually been sitting here since I read it trying to figure out what he meant. Makes since what he was pertaining to but like you said, that statement is now a good 40 years out of date.

War Eagle!!!

What I meant by the Jim Crow comment is that it was often used as an excuse not to travel to the South - the deep South in particular. http://football.stassen.com/records/opponent.html

Let's start at 2010 and look back. Michigan has played 3 games in 100 years in the old Confederacy, Vandy in 1922 and at UNC and Duke in 65 and 68. Ohio State has played three, SMU in 1977, LSU in 1987, and NC State in 2004. Iowa has played one TCU in 1968.

Let's dial it back to 1985. Wisconsin has played four LSU in 72, Rice in 1952, SMU in 1993. Illinois has played at Duke in 1958, Florida in 1967, TAMU in 1975. Indiana went to SMU in 1930, Texas in 65 and 66, Baylor in 71, and LSU in 1978. Wisconsin went to Rice in 1952, and LSU in 1972.

My point. poorly articulated, was that Big 10 schools have avoided playing in the rural South since the inception of the Western Conference. Jim Crow policies was also meant to refer to certain education and accommodation disparities that would make trip to the rural Deep South unappealing to someone attached to the likes of scUM. (That's an Ohio State joke).


What you see in the data is only the most grudging willingness to go to the Research Triangle of NC, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans. The actual racial makeup of the squads is not the issue.

It's about where you felt comfortable taking your staff, their wives, your traveling boosters, etc., etc. USC and Bear Bryant did not change that overnight. I can recall stories about Michigan State's trip to Raleigh in 1975. Some of their people actually expected the Klan to show up to meet them. (We assuaged they fears I am told by assuring them that NC Highway patrol kept them bottled up in their Davidson and Caswell County hollers and that they could not afford a ticket) 04-cheers


This is not a cultural sociology forum but explaining Jim Crow to Yankees, West Coasters, and Midwesterners is exceedingly difficult. The obvious racial aspect overshadows the Jim Crow social caste system that also delineates where certain whites fit in that caste system. I think JR would likely agree that Jim Crow is an obvious racial apartied system that is used to control non-white classes, BUT ALSO, the lower white classes in a less obvious system.


Many Americans are not comfortable discussing or recognizing social class.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 10:07 AM by Statefan.)
01-30-2019 09:54 AM
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cubucks Offline
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 09:54 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 07:10 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 05:59 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 04:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The issue is hypocrisy. Saying one thing, particularly preaching that one thing, and then doing another.

Cheating in college sports is one thing for example. Cheating and then claiming you never cheat is hypocrisy.

The B10 has a lot of mouth regarding certain issues or perhaps it's more to the point to say that Michigan has a lot of mouth and the Big 10 follows along to the tune.

The genesis of much of the Big 10 mouth is animus toward the South's Jim Crow policies - a legitimate issue when Jim Crow ran almost all of the South. I'm not equating Jim Crow with Michigan and other upper Mid-West anti-Catholic bias. It's really not even a close thing. But it was a thing.


Claiming that you are somehow better because you schedule MAC type programs as opposed to FCS programs is that type of hypocrisy, especially if you can't beat the Southern schools when you do meet on the football field.
Hi Statefan! Since I've been pretty vocal on this thread I'd like to respond to your post.

First, 100% agree with your hypocrisy statement pertaining to cheating.

Next, I'm simply assuming but it sounds like you believe Michigan leads and the rest follow in this Conference? Well that would be completely false. Everybody has an equal voice in this conference and it is and always has been STABLE because of this.

The North (Big 10) has ill feelings towards racist Jim Crow laws? I'm just totally confused about this statement or why you made it to get your point across? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to see the point?

Lastly, I do know the Big 10 is 43-32 vs the ACC the last 20 years. Also, we are 34-48 vs the SEC. The ACC is 80-101vs the SEC. I would call this hypocrisy on your part too, would you agree with that? Only including the SEC in this conversation because you stated the BIG couldn't win games vs the South.

Anyways, I think we all have become a little bit of NCST fans with the Jimmy V foundation and what it does for cancer research. Like it was said, cancer touches us all and it surely has touched my family. Man, seeing him run across the court looking for someone to hug after winning the National championship. One of the greatest moments in sports history!

Take care!

Jim Crow died in the SEC in the very early 70's after John McKay's USC team routed Alabama using black players. The next year Bear offered his first scholarships to African American athletes. By the time Herschel and Bo were running roughshod over opponents Jim Crow was a distant memory. I doubt seriously that even that school up North still pays much mind to it. If they tried to use it in recruiting today the athletes themselves would laugh in their faces.

The real trick to discerning the ACC/SEC record is to subtract games won by Clemson and Florida State and then look at the ratio.

The ACC middle however is strengthening. Their emphasis of gridiron competitiveness a few years ago has paid some dividends. What they lack that the Big 10 and SEC have are schools capable of making a run. I count 6 in the Big 10 and 8 in the SEC. The ACC legitimately has no more than 4 and two of those have been down for a decade or longer.
Thank you for clearing the air on the Jim Crow statement. I have actually been sitting here since I read it trying to figure out what he meant. Makes since what he was pertaining to but like you said, that statement is now a good 40 years out of date.

War Eagle!!!

What I meant by the Jim Crow comment is that it was often used as an excuse not to travel to the South - the deep South in particular. http://football.stassen.com/records/opponent.html

Let's start at 2010 and look back. Michigan has played 3 games in 100 years in the old Confederacy, Vandy in 1922 and at UNC and Duke in 65 and 68. Ohio State has played three, SMU in 1977, LSU in 1987, and NC State in 2004. Iowa has played one TCU in 1968.

Let's dial it back to 1985. Wisconsin has played four LSU in 72, Rice in 1952, SMU in 1993. Illinois has played at Duke in 1958, Florida in 1967, TAMU in 1975. Indiana went to SMU in 1930, Texas in 65 and 66, Baylor in 71, and LSU in 1978. Wisconsin went to Rice in 1952, and LSU in 1972.

My point. poorly articulated, was that Big 10 schools have avoided playing in the rural South since the inception of the Western Conference. Jim Crow policies was also meant to refer to certain education and accommodation disparities that would make trip to the rural Deep South unappealing to someone attached to the likes of scUM. (That's an Ohio State joke).


What you see in the data is only the most grudging willingness to go to the Research Triangle of NC, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans. The actual racial makeup of the squads is not the issue.

It's about where you felt comfortable taking your staff, their wives, your traveling boosters, etc., etc. USC and Bear Bryant did not change that overnight. I can recall stories about Michigan State's trip to Raleigh in 1975. Some of their people actually expected the Klan to show up to meet them. (We assuaged they fears I am told by assuring them that NC Highway patrol kept them bottled up in their Davidson and Caswell County hollers and that they could not afford a ticket) 04-cheers


This is not a cultural sociology forum but explaining Jim Crow to Yankees, West Coasters, and Midwesterners is exceedingly difficult. The obvious racial aspect overshadows the Jim Crow social caste system that also delineates where certain whites fit in that caste system. I think JR would likely agree that Jim Crow is an obvious racial apartied system that is used to control non-white classes, BUT ALSO, the lower white classes in a less obvious system.


Many Americans are not comfortable discussing or recognizing social class.
Great feedback! I've learned something new today. I too love the word Scum, just easier to say than The team up north or the dreaded Michigan word.

Anyways, great points and I appreciate it!
01-30-2019 10:12 AM
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Post: #73
RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 09:54 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 07:10 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 05:59 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 04:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The issue is hypocrisy. Saying one thing, particularly preaching that one thing, and then doing another.

Cheating in college sports is one thing for example. Cheating and then claiming you never cheat is hypocrisy.

The B10 has a lot of mouth regarding certain issues or perhaps it's more to the point to say that Michigan has a lot of mouth and the Big 10 follows along to the tune.

The genesis of much of the Big 10 mouth is animus toward the South's Jim Crow policies - a legitimate issue when Jim Crow ran almost all of the South. I'm not equating Jim Crow with Michigan and other upper Mid-West anti-Catholic bias. It's really not even a close thing. But it was a thing.


Claiming that you are somehow better because you schedule MAC type programs as opposed to FCS programs is that type of hypocrisy, especially if you can't beat the Southern schools when you do meet on the football field.
Hi Statefan! Since I've been pretty vocal on this thread I'd like to respond to your post.

First, 100% agree with your hypocrisy statement pertaining to cheating.

Next, I'm simply assuming but it sounds like you believe Michigan leads and the rest follow in this Conference? Well that would be completely false. Everybody has an equal voice in this conference and it is and always has been STABLE because of this.

The North (Big 10) has ill feelings towards racist Jim Crow laws? I'm just totally confused about this statement or why you made it to get your point across? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to see the point?

Lastly, I do know the Big 10 is 43-32 vs the ACC the last 20 years. Also, we are 34-48 vs the SEC. The ACC is 80-101vs the SEC. I would call this hypocrisy on your part too, would you agree with that? Only including the SEC in this conversation because you stated the BIG couldn't win games vs the South.

Anyways, I think we all have become a little bit of NCST fans with the Jimmy V foundation and what it does for cancer research. Like it was said, cancer touches us all and it surely has touched my family. Man, seeing him run across the court looking for someone to hug after winning the National championship. One of the greatest moments in sports history!

Take care!

Jim Crow died in the SEC in the very early 70's after John McKay's USC team routed Alabama using black players. The next year Bear offered his first scholarships to African American athletes. By the time Herschel and Bo were running roughshod over opponents Jim Crow was a distant memory. I doubt seriously that even that school up North still pays much mind to it. If they tried to use it in recruiting today the athletes themselves would laugh in their faces.

The real trick to discerning the ACC/SEC record is to subtract games won by Clemson and Florida State and then look at the ratio.

The ACC middle however is strengthening. Their emphasis of gridiron competitiveness a few years ago has paid some dividends. What they lack that the Big 10 and SEC have are schools capable of making a run. I count 6 in the Big 10 and 8 in the SEC. The ACC legitimately has no more than 4 and two of those have been down for a decade or longer.
Thank you for clearing the air on the Jim Crow statement. I have actually been sitting here since I read it trying to figure out what he meant. Makes since what he was pertaining to but like you said, that statement is now a good 40 years out of date.

War Eagle!!!

What I meant by the Jim Crow comment is that it was often used as an excuse not to travel to the South - the deep South in particular. http://football.stassen.com/records/opponent.html

Let's start at 2010 and look back. Michigan has played 3 games in 100 years in the old Confederacy, Vandy in 1922 and at UNC and Duke in 65 and 68. Ohio State has played three, SMU in 1977, LSU in 1987, and NC State in 2004. Iowa has played one TCU in 1968.

Let's dial it back to 1985. Wisconsin has played four LSU in 72, Rice in 1952, SMU in 1993. Illinois has played at Duke in 1958, Florida in 1967, TAMU in 1975. Indiana went to SMU in 1930, Texas in 65 and 66, Baylor in 71, and LSU in 1978. Wisconsin went to Rice in 1952, and LSU in 1972.

My point. poorly articulated, was that Big 10 schools have avoided playing in the rural South since the inception of the Western Conference. Jim Crow policies was also meant to refer to certain education and accommodation disparities that would make trip to the rural Deep South unappealing to someone attached to the likes of scUM. (That's an Ohio State joke).


What you see in the data is only the most grudging willingness to go to the Research Triangle of NC, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans. The actual racial makeup of the squads is not the issue.

It's about where you felt comfortable taking your staff, their wives, your traveling boosters, etc., etc. USC and Bear Bryant did not change that overnight. I can recall stories about Michigan State's trip to Raleigh in 1975. Some of their people actually expected the Klan to show up to meet them. (We assuaged they fears I am told by assuring them that NC Highway patrol kept them bottled up in their Davidson and Caswell County hollers and that they could not afford a ticket) 04-cheers


This is not a cultural sociology forum but explaining Jim Crow to Yankees, West Coasters, and Midwesterners is exceedingly difficult. The obvious racial aspect overshadows the Jim Crow social caste system that also delineates where certain whites fit in that caste system. I think JR would likely agree that Jim Crow is an obvious racial apartied system that is used to control non-white classes, BUT ALSO, the lower white classes in a less obvious system.


Many Americans are not comfortable discussing or recognizing social class.

Having lived among the Big 10 and in the Deep South I find this to be hooey. Football until 1983 remained largely regional. The fans cared about playing regionally.

If you want to talk about race then let's look at the riots in Pontiac in the first half of the 70's when busing and integration of neighborhood schools segregated by class economics was imposed upon the North. There were towns in Michigan in the 60's that had a curfew law against African Americans.

Anyone who claims they thought they would meet the Klan in Raleigh Durham was an idiot and not worthy of claiming any intellectual superiority.

After Oklahoma/Georgia vs the NCAA television networks got involved. They wanted larger viewing audiences and saw a quick fix to the regionalism by encouraging cross conference games.

There's you damned answer pure and simple.

For those of us who have lived long enough and traveled well enough you would know that racism existed everywhere in this country. Riots in Chicago and Los Angelos predated those in Pontiac and Boston, and all of them came after Little Rock and Selma. Jim Crow for SEC football disappeared after Bear and McKay played. That's an event that has had documentaries built around it.

Football in Washington and Oregon and Northern California had a flavor all of its own. It was all predicated on local rivalries and the West Coast fans had to drive farther for it than just about anywhere else when you tied it to L.A.. Prior to the late 60's there was nothing in Arizona which is why they were small schools by PAC terms.

The Big 8 and SWC and SEC and ACC all played local schedules as did the Big 10 and none of them traveled miles and miles for games, except for Notre Dame. They played locally because if fans were lucky they might get to see their team on TV once or twice a season. So if you wanted to see a game you drove and since you drove to the games your A.D. wanted you to be able to make as many as possible because that's where the bulk of the revenue came from.

Only the wealth of television could entice Ohio State to Baton Rouge, or Auburn to fly to Eugene to open next year.

The games in the early 70's between Alabama and USC were a contrivance because the bowls precluded the two being able to meet in the post season.

Regionalism is why the schools didn't play one another it sure a hell wasn't Jim Crow laws.

Now in the Northeast Syracuse experienced problems playing in West Virginia because their black athletes were subjected to some heavy duty racial hazing. So in areas that had diverse adaptation to integration there were some issues, but those were happening in the 50's and early 60's.

What people forget is that WWII cracked the color barrier in the U.S.A.. Many parts of the North didn't integrate until the post War late 40's through the early 50's. The South was resistant until the mid to late 60's. In the great scheme of things there's very little difference. Jackie Robinson didn't break the color barrier in baseball until '47. Part of the Big 10 and PAC's dominance in football in the 60's was because they were able to recruit top African American athletes from the South and many other regions. Oklahoma and Nebraska did as well. It was pressure from programs winning with black players that pressured Texas, and later Alabama to change their policies and with them the rest of their conferences.

But the reason there were so few games between regions and conferences was because there were few games on TV, fans had to actually go to see their schools play, A.D.'s wanted a schedule as friendly to the fans as possible, and that meant games they could conceivably drive to. It didn't have beans to do with Jim Crow.
01-30-2019 12:45 PM
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indianasniff Offline
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
Toledo fans remember getting jobbed at Ohio State once as well. The blatant homer referees in CBus are ridiculous.

The nine game B1G schedule is nice but OSU gets to play Rutgers every year so that kind of blows that argument out of the water not to mention Maryland and Indiana.

I will give the 'nuts a little credit. Oregon home and home 20/21 Notre Dame home and home in 22/23, Washington home and home 24/25, Texas home and home 25/26 and Boston College home and home 26/27 are steps in the right direction for credibility with SEC.

But an important factor, if all the P5 schools play each other the G5 will be relegated to the same
01-30-2019 12:58 PM
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cubucks Offline
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 12:58 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  Toledo fans remember getting jobbed at Ohio State once as well. The blatant homer referees in CBus are ridiculous.

The nine game B1G schedule is nice but OSU gets to play Rutgers every year so that kind of blows that argument out of the water not to mention Maryland and Indiana.

I will give the 'nuts a little credit. Oregon home and home 20/21 Notre Dame home and home in 22/23, Washington home and home 24/25, Texas home and home 25/26 and Boston College home and home 26/27 are steps in the right direction for credibility with SEC.

But an important factor, if all the P5 schools play each other the G5 will be relegated to the same
Gee, thanks for giving the "nuts" a little credit.

You know they have played USC, TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, WASHINGTON, UCLA, NORTH CAROLINA STATE, CAL and VIRGINIA TECH in recent non-con home/homes games in recent years? The only reason it's off this year is because TCU was originally scheduled but a neutral site game was established last year that cancelled that!

Maryland and Indiana are not bad teams Regardless of what others may say. Just ask Texas how fun it is to play Maryland. But hey, it's just the normal BS bashing of the BIG in general, no biggie.

Best of luck to your Rockets this coming year!
01-30-2019 01:39 PM
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
JRSec,

Don Haskins got death threats after winning the NC in 1966. He said there were times he wished his Texas Western team never beat Kentucky. But he opened a lot of doors for black basketball players and Adolph Rupp of all people recruited the first black player right after. Some schools had one or two black players but a team never had five black starters. Haskins said Disney put it like he planned it to make a political statement but he only started his best five players and they happened to be black. Haskins was lucky he lived on the other side of Texas which wasn’t segregated and it was used to diversity being a border town and a major Army base. It also helped UTEP was the first college in Texas that was integrated so they were years ahead of most colleges.
01-30-2019 01:52 PM
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 01:39 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 12:58 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  Toledo fans remember getting jobbed at Ohio State once as well. The blatant homer referees in CBus are ridiculous.

The nine game B1G schedule is nice but OSU gets to play Rutgers every year so that kind of blows that argument out of the water not to mention Maryland and Indiana.

I will give the 'nuts a little credit. Oregon home and home 20/21 Notre Dame home and home in 22/23, Washington home and home 24/25, Texas home and home 25/26 and Boston College home and home 26/27 are steps in the right direction for credibility with SEC.

But an important factor, if all the P5 schools play each other the G5 will be relegated to the same
Gee, thanks for giving the "nuts" a little credit.

You know they have played USC, TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, WASHINGTON, UCLA, NORTH CAROLINA STATE, CAL and VIRGINIA TECH in recent non-con home/homes games in recent years? The only reason it's off this year is because TCU was originally scheduled but a neutral site game was established last year that cancelled that!

Maryland and Indiana are not bad teams Regardless of what others may say. Just ask Texas how fun it is to play Maryland. But hey, it's just the normal BS bashing of the BIG in general, no biggie.

Best of luck to your Rockets this coming year!

If we’re using the SEC spin book, all you have to say is “look at our division” which is already hard. You have to play Penn State, Michigan and Michigan State in the East plus three West schools which are usually solid.
01-30-2019 01:57 PM
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 01:52 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  JRSec,

Don Haskins got death threats after winning the NC in 1966. He said there were times he wished his Texas Western team never beat Kentucky. But he opened a lot of doors for black basketball players and Adolph Rupp of all people recruited the first black player right after. Some schools had one or two black players but a team never had five black starters. Haskins said Disney put it like he planned it to make a political statement but he only started his best five players and they happened to be black. Haskins was lucky he lived on the other side of Texas which wasn’t segregated and it was used to diversity being a border town and a major Army base. It also helped UTEP was the first college in Texas that was integrated so they were years ahead of most colleges.

I remember that. The guy was saying Jim Crow prevented the Big 10 from wanting to come South to play. Those threats were because of the post season and Rupp. And there were schools even in the South that were ahead of the curve on integration, but very few. Alabama public schools were integrated by 65 with the real push coming in 67 & 68. SEC schools lagged that by 3 to 4 years depending on the school. Scheduling changed after the OU/UGa vs NCAA case. When schools could play as many times on TV as they wished and dates for TV were no longer managed between the NCAA & ABC that's when networks really started wanting more cross conference play for the sake of viewer numbers.

I'm certainly not justifying the decisions of schools back then, but I am saying that by 83 Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker, and those who had gone before them, had pretty well killed, or were killing, Jim Crow for SEC football. But Jim Crow didn't prohibit scheduling OOC games, the TV contract did since most AD revenue was coming from ticket sales for local games.
01-30-2019 03:59 PM
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 03:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 01:52 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  JRSec,

Don Haskins got death threats after winning the NC in 1966. He said there were times he wished his Texas Western team never beat Kentucky. But he opened a lot of doors for black basketball players and Adolph Rupp of all people recruited the first black player right after. Some schools had one or two black players but a team never had five black starters. Haskins said Disney put it like he planned it to make a political statement but he only started his best five players and they happened to be black. Haskins was lucky he lived on the other side of Texas which wasn’t segregated and it was used to diversity being a border town and a major Army base. It also helped UTEP was the first college in Texas that was integrated so they were years ahead of most colleges.

I remember that. The guy was saying Jim Crow prevented the Big 10 from wanting to come South to play. Those threats were because of the post season and Rupp. And there were schools even in the South that were ahead of the curve on integration, but very few. Alabama public schools were integrated by 65 with the real push coming in 67 & 68. SEC schools lagged that by 3 to 4 years depending on the school. Scheduling changed after the OU/UGa vs NCAA case. When schools could play as many times on TV as they wished and dates for TV were no longer managed between the NCAA & ABC that's when networks really started wanting more cross conference play for the sake of viewer numbers.

I'm certainly not justifying the decisions of schools back then, but I am saying that by 83 Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker, and those who had gone before them, had pretty well killed, or were killing, Jim Crow for SEC football. But Jim Crow didn't prohibit scheduling OOC games, the TV contract did since most AD revenue was coming from ticket sales for local games.

As you mentioned, it was a different time. Another thing is before the airline deregulation of 1978, it was very expensive to fly. It didn’t make any sense for Washington and Georgia or Syracuse and Arizona State to schedule a series. The trip by bus would’ve been long and expensive so most schools scheduled regionally.
01-30-2019 04:55 PM
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RE: 2019 Big Ten football schedule: softest EVER?
(01-30-2019 03:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-30-2019 01:52 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  JRSec,

Don Haskins got death threats after winning the NC in 1966. He said there were times he wished his Texas Western team never beat Kentucky. But he opened a lot of doors for black basketball players and Adolph Rupp of all people recruited the first black player right after. Some schools had one or two black players but a team never had five black starters. Haskins said Disney put it like he planned it to make a political statement but he only started his best five players and they happened to be black. Haskins was lucky he lived on the other side of Texas which wasn’t segregated and it was used to diversity being a border town and a major Army base. It also helped UTEP was the first college in Texas that was integrated so they were years ahead of most colleges.

I remember that. The guy was saying Jim Crow prevented the Big 10 from wanting to come South to play. Those threats were because of the post season and Rupp. And there were schools even in the South that were ahead of the curve on integration, but very few. Alabama public schools were integrated by 65 with the real push coming in 67 & 68. SEC schools lagged that by 3 to 4 years depending on the school. Scheduling changed after the OU/UGa vs NCAA case. When schools could play as many times on TV as they wished and dates for TV were no longer managed between the NCAA & ABC that's when networks really started wanting more cross conference play for the sake of viewer numbers.

I'm certainly not justifying the decisions of schools back then, but I am saying that by 83 Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker, and those who had gone before them, had pretty well killed, or were killing, Jim Crow for SEC football. But Jim Crow didn't prohibit scheduling OOC games, the TV contract did since most AD revenue was coming from ticket sales for local games.

JR - you misread me.

I wrote:

The issue is hypocrisy. Saying one thing, particularly preaching that one thing, and then doing another.

Cheating in college sports is one thing for example. Cheating and then claiming you never cheat is hypocrisy.

The B10 has a lot of mouth regarding certain issues or perhaps it's more to the point to say that Michigan has a lot of mouth and the Big 10 follows along to the tune.

The genesis of much of the Big 10 mouth is animus toward the South's Jim Crow policies - a legitimate issue when Jim Crow ran almost all of the South. I'm not equating Jim Crow with Michigan and other upper Mid-West anti-Catholic bias. It's really not even a close thing. But it was a thing.


Claiming that you are somehow better because you schedule MAC type programs as opposed to FCS programs is that type of hypocrisy, especially if you can't beat the Southern schools when you do meet on the football field.


I followed that up with:

What I meant by the Jim Crow comment is that it was often used as an excuse not to travel to the South - the deep South in particular. http://football.stassen.com/records/opponent.html
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 05:18 PM by Statefan.)
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