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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
Gadsden guards the better players so numbers are biased for individual comparisons.
01-25-2019 10:29 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
O’Connell is a grad transfer. You don’t acquire those guys just to have them play light minutes.

And if O’Connell was truly Elmore’s biggest roadblock in the path to minutes, I’m sure he’d have stuck around for next season rather than sit out a year to transfer. My guess is there were additional reasons at play than just his current spot on the depth chart.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2019 10:31 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
01-25-2019 10:31 AM
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HAWKING Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 10:31 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  O’Connell is a grad transfer. You don’t acquire those guys just to have them play light minutes.

And if O’Connell was truly Elmore’s biggest roadblock in the path to minutes, I’m sure he’d have stuck around for next season rather than sit out a year to transfer. My guess is there were additional reasons at play than just his current spot on the depth chart.
Never mentioned O'Connell's name in relation to Elmore only how the team could use him in spite of his defensive deficiencies. Try and keep on the original topic or it becomes laborious to continue the conversation.
01-25-2019 10:45 AM
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HAWKING Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 10:29 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  Gadsden guards the better players so numbers are biased for individual comparisons.
Entirely accurate. But he also doesn't do as good a job on those players as thought, just better than his teammates.
01-25-2019 10:46 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 10:46 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:29 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  Gadsden guards the better players so numbers are biased for individual comparisons.
Entirely accurate. But he also doesn't do as good a job on those players as thought, just better than his teammates.

it's essentially "the tallest midget" argument is what you are saying?
01-25-2019 10:54 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 10:45 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:31 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  O’Connell is a grad transfer. You don’t acquire those guys just to have them play light minutes.

And if O’Connell was truly Elmore’s biggest roadblock in the path to minutes, I’m sure he’d have stuck around for next season rather than sit out a year to transfer. My guess is there were additional reasons at play than just his current spot on the depth chart.
Never mentioned O'Connell's name in relation to Elmore only how the team could use him in spite of his defensive deficiencies. Try and keep on the original topic or it becomes laborious to continue the conversation.

You didn’t but others did.
01-25-2019 11:11 AM
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Gary Miller Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 09:57 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:46 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:42 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:29 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 07:41 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  LOL. C'mon who outside of Gadsen actually plays D1 level defense on a game to game basis at UNCW. Bottom 1% dude. Jeezus.

You have a good point there, but I'd still say he is even MORE of a liability on defense than any of those who were on the roster ahead of him. I do believe I stated that our team struggles to play defense. All you did was make my point, sir.
Not interested in defending him since I can judge defensive ability even with a small sample. However, again I refer to the stats. In limited time this season Elmore has defended the ball on 16 possessions and 14 points were scored against him. You may find this hard to believe but that places him as the second best defender in PPP (0.873)behind O'Connell. If you want to use the playing time delimiter then Toews is ahead of Gadsen since he defends the ball 10.1% of the time compared to Gadsden's 6.6% and Toews limiting his man to 0.890 PPP and Gadsen at 1.019 PPP. I'm the only one here making a point based on facts here Sir.

LOL. Okay. Yeah, go ahead and play Elmore ahead of O'Connell and see where that would get us this season.

Look, I like metrics and stats, but sometimes they're not the end all be all (your point of Gadsden/Toews proves that). I understand you know a lot about the game and coach the game, but I've been around a few years now and this year isn't my first seeing Elmore. There's no way I'd push him up the depth chart ahead of O'Connell. Zero chance.
Mr. Miller you have my respect as a knowledgeable basketball person as I've mentioned on this board before. You are also clearly in the UNCW 'loop'. You also do not know if I coach. My original comment was this:

"Playing Elmore and Toews in a Side Pick & Pop (empty corner) with limited minutes and hiding him in ZONE would have brought a nice change of pace off the bench. Defensively if you switch that Toews will burn the big going to the cup, and if you load up on the ball Elmore is going to stroke it on a kickout from Toews or Cacok will crash the OR. Every player has limitations. Find a role for the guys you have."

Not once did I compare him to O'Connell or imply he should play ahead of him. I didn't push him up the depth chart either. Please show me that comment cuz I missed it. But people on this board often make uninformed comments based on personal likes or dislikes. It's ok, we are not in the NBA 'War Room' deciding the next draft pick. But if we were some would not be able to support their opinions based on modern analytics. O'Connell is a better defender than Elmore but Elmore did a decent job on the 18 possessions he defended the ball. FACTS. I just suggested that his skill as a pick and pop guy could have been useful at moments if he was hidden in a zone, and that is something O'Connell cannot do.

Not sure if this was meant to be directed at me or not. I don't know who coaches or not outside of this thread, or really care for that matter. I haven't disputed whether or not I agree with the people who think Elmore should've played more on this particular thread. I have done it in threads past, and didn't feel like beating a dead horse. Rarely will you see anyone change their opinion on a message board because of something someone with a differing view says, but it's still great to have these conversations. I merely wanted to show my appreciation for what Matt gave to the program and my hope that he finds a place that he can thrive.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2019 11:19 AM by Gary Miller.)
01-25-2019 11:16 AM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 11:16 AM)Gary Miller Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:57 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:46 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:42 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:29 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  You have a good point there, but I'd still say he is even MORE of a liability on defense than any of those who were on the roster ahead of him. I do believe I stated that our team struggles to play defense. All you did was make my point, sir.
Not interested in defending him since I can judge defensive ability even with a small sample. However, again I refer to the stats. In limited time this season Elmore has defended the ball on 16 possessions and 14 points were scored against him. You may find this hard to believe but that places him as the second best defender in PPP (0.873)behind O'Connell. If you want to use the playing time delimiter then Toews is ahead of Gadsen since he defends the ball 10.1% of the time compared to Gadsden's 6.6% and Toews limiting his man to 0.890 PPP and Gadsen at 1.019 PPP. I'm the only one here making a point based on facts here Sir.

LOL. Okay. Yeah, go ahead and play Elmore ahead of O'Connell and see where that would get us this season.

Look, I like metrics and stats, but sometimes they're not the end all be all (your point of Gadsden/Toews proves that). I understand you know a lot about the game and coach the game, but I've been around a few years now and this year isn't my first seeing Elmore. There's no way I'd push him up the depth chart ahead of O'Connell. Zero chance.
Mr. Miller you have my respect as a knowledgeable basketball person as I've mentioned on this board before. You are also clearly in the UNCW 'loop'. You also do not know if I coach. My original comment was this:

"Playing Elmore and Toews in a Side Pick & Pop (empty corner) with limited minutes and hiding him in ZONE would have brought a nice change of pace off the bench. Defensively if you switch that Toews will burn the big going to the cup, and if you load up on the ball Elmore is going to stroke it on a kickout from Toews or Cacok will crash the OR. Every player has limitations. Find a role for the guys you have."

Not once did I compare him to O'Connell or imply he should play ahead of him. I didn't push him up the depth chart either. Please show me that comment cuz I missed it. But people on this board often make uninformed comments based on personal likes or dislikes. It's ok, we are not in the NBA 'War Room' deciding the next draft pick. But if we were some would not be able to support their opinions based on modern analytics. O'Connell is a better defender than Elmore but Elmore did a decent job on the 18 possessions he defended the ball. FACTS. I just suggested that his skill as a pick and pop guy could have been useful at moments if he was hidden in a zone, and that is something O'Connell cannot do.

Not sure if this was meant to be directed at me or not. I don't know who coaches or not outside of this thread, or really care for that matter. I haven't disputed whether or not I agree with the people who think Elmore should've played more on this particular thread. I have done it in threads past, and didn't feel like beating a dead horse. Rarely will you see anyone change their opinion on a message board because of something someone with a differing view says, but it's still great to have these conversations. I merely wanted to show my appreciation for what Matt gave to the program and my hope that he finds a place that he can thrive.

I believe it was directed at me, and he accidentally referred to me as "Mr. Miller".

I said the same in my original post on this thread and probably should have left it at that in hindsight, but I went further. Oh well. Again, I hope the young man lands on his feet and finds success where ever he goes. I also hope we keep winning with the talent we have and the talent we have coming in. The team is growing, and by all accounts progressing from where we were last year, IMO, and that's a good thing.

All of our msg board disagreements are simply just that. Msg board fodder that accomplishes nothing.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2019 12:28 PM by CG_Hawk06.)
01-25-2019 12:28 PM
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Seahawk2010 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 07:41 AM)HAWKING Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 07:21 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-24-2019 10:46 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  McGrath screwed the pooch on this one. Elmore was a much better offensive threat than O'Connell and yet he refused to play him. I hope Elmore finds a good fit and is successful where ever he lands.


IMO for the limited offense he could have provided he was a defensive liability on a team that already struggles to play solid defense.


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LOL. C'mon who outside of Gadsen actually plays D1 level defense on a game to game basis at UNCW. Bottom 1% dude. Jeezus.

Can you run defensive efficiencincy stats for each player?
01-25-2019 01:59 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
Elmore and Fornes are really tight.....
01-25-2019 02:02 PM
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Gary Miller Offline
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RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 02:02 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Elmore and Fornes are really tight.....

Elmore will have 2 (maybe 2.5) years of eligibility after sitting out his transfer year. Fornes will only have 1 if he were to leave after this year. If he were to graduate early it would make sense because he would be eligible immediately, I don't expect him to go the sit 1 to play 1 route. Taylor would be the one that I would be worried about leaving after this season. He's already had a redshirt year so he could easily be on pace to graduate in May. Also, he's a Hargrave kid... he probably has all kind of connects throughout mid-major D1 basketball that would be interested in bringing him in.
01-25-2019 02:09 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
I have been high on Elmore, believing he still has good potential. The coaching staff has been high on him ever since they arrived. But there has been a key issue, besides the injury, that has limited his playing time. It can be summed up in one word. And that word is soft. I could go deeper into that term, but I'll leave it at that. Here's hoping he lands in the right place for him, and he is able to reach his potential.
01-25-2019 02:10 PM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
I said it from day one that Elmore would never play here and is not a CAA talent. He can shoot a little bit for a big guy but he plays small with all most no lateral quickness. You are what you can guard and he can't guard anybody at this level. As far as him playing or O'Connel there is no coach in the country who would even consider that. Elmore is heavy in the hips with short legs and a short stride for a D1 big. Just not a D1 body and that is not a personal thing but fact. Good luck to him and I am sure he will find a fit somewhere.
01-25-2019 02:50 PM
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Seahawksilver Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  I said it from day one that Elmore would never play here and is not a CAA talent. He can shoot a little bit for a big guy but he plays small with all most no lateral quickness. You are what you can guard and he can't guard anybody at this level. As far as him playing or O'Connel there is no coach in the country who would even consider that. Elmore is heavy in the hips with short legs and a short stride for a D1 big. Just not a D1 body and that is not a personal thing but fact. Good luck to him and I am sure he will find a fit somewhere.

I guess you are a better judge than the 15 schools that offered him before he chose UNCW but okay.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/matt-elmore
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2019 09:32 PM by Seahawksilver.)
01-25-2019 09:30 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #35
Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 09:30 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  I said it from day one that Elmore would never play here and is not a CAA talent. He can shoot a little bit for a big guy but he plays small with all most no lateral quickness. You are what you can guard and he can't guard anybody at this level. As far as him playing or O'Connel there is no coach in the country who would even consider that. Elmore is heavy in the hips with short legs and a short stride for a D1 big. Just not a D1 body and that is not a personal thing but fact. Good luck to him and I am sure he will find a fit somewhere.

I guess you are a better judge than the 15 schools that offered him before he chose UNCW but okay.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/matt-elmore

I can see the point you’re trying to make here but ehhhh... I’ll weigh in with this.

Think of all the NBA draft picks out there over time. Let’s go with someone like Greg Oden. By your example here, just because a lot of people would have drafted him doesn’t mean he was meant to be an NBA talent. I chose Oden as an example here due to his injuries also being a factor in his inability to “make it as an NBA talent”. There’s a long list of guys that were drafted and highly sought out by multiple teams that turn out to be busts. Judging by the analytics, they should’ve been studs. Just didn’t work out.

So to summarize and answer your question, it’s entirely possible all of those teams were wrong, yes.


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01-25-2019 10:51 PM
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Seahawksilver Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 10:51 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:30 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  I said it from day one that Elmore would never play here and is not a CAA talent. He can shoot a little bit for a big guy but he plays small with all most no lateral quickness. You are what you can guard and he can't guard anybody at this level. As far as him playing or O'Connel there is no coach in the country who would even consider that. Elmore is heavy in the hips with short legs and a short stride for a D1 big. Just not a D1 body and that is not a personal thing but fact. Good luck to him and I am sure he will find a fit somewhere.

I guess you are a better judge than the 15 schools that offered him before he chose UNCW but okay.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/matt-elmore

I can see the point you’re trying to make here but ehhhh... I’ll weigh in with this.

Think of all the NBA draft picks out there over time. Let’s go with someone like Greg Oden. By your example here, just because a lot of people would have drafted him doesn’t mean he was meant to be an NBA talent. I chose Oden as an example here due to his injuries also being a factor in his inability to “make it as an NBA talent”. There’s a long list of guys that were drafted and highly sought out by multiple teams that turn out to be busts. Judging by the analytics, they should’ve been studs. Just didn’t work out.

So to summarize and answer your question, it’s entirely possible all of those teams were wrong, yes.


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CG, just stick to guarding our coast and you will be successful!
01-25-2019 11:06 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 11:06 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:51 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:30 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  I said it from day one that Elmore would never play here and is not a CAA talent. He can shoot a little bit for a big guy but he plays small with all most no lateral quickness. You are what you can guard and he can't guard anybody at this level. As far as him playing or O'Connel there is no coach in the country who would even consider that. Elmore is heavy in the hips with short legs and a short stride for a D1 big. Just not a D1 body and that is not a personal thing but fact. Good luck to him and I am sure he will find a fit somewhere.

I guess you are a better judge than the 15 schools that offered him before he chose UNCW but okay.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/matt-elmore

I can see the point you’re trying to make here but ehhhh... I’ll weigh in with this.

Think of all the NBA draft picks out there over time. Let’s go with someone like Greg Oden. By your example here, just because a lot of people would have drafted him doesn’t mean he was meant to be an NBA talent. I chose Oden as an example here due to his injuries also being a factor in his inability to “make it as an NBA talent”. There’s a long list of guys that were drafted and highly sought out by multiple teams that turn out to be busts. Judging by the analytics, they should’ve been studs. Just didn’t work out.

So to summarize and answer your question, it’s entirely possible all of those teams were wrong, yes.


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CG, just stick to guarding our coast and you will be successful!

really beginning to think you might be Elmore himself. No one else would get their panties in a wad about a guy that just rode the pine here.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2019 09:55 AM by Seahawkhoops.)
01-26-2019 09:50 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-25-2019 11:06 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 10:51 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 09:30 PM)Seahawksilver Wrote:  
(01-25-2019 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  I said it from day one that Elmore would never play here and is not a CAA talent. He can shoot a little bit for a big guy but he plays small with all most no lateral quickness. You are what you can guard and he can't guard anybody at this level. As far as him playing or O'Connel there is no coach in the country who would even consider that. Elmore is heavy in the hips with short legs and a short stride for a D1 big. Just not a D1 body and that is not a personal thing but fact. Good luck to him and I am sure he will find a fit somewhere.

I guess you are a better judge than the 15 schools that offered him before he chose UNCW but okay.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/matt-elmore

I can see the point you’re trying to make here but ehhhh... I’ll weigh in with this.

Think of all the NBA draft picks out there over time. Let’s go with someone like Greg Oden. By your example here, just because a lot of people would have drafted him doesn’t mean he was meant to be an NBA talent. I chose Oden as an example here due to his injuries also being a factor in his inability to “make it as an NBA talent”. There’s a long list of guys that were drafted and highly sought out by multiple teams that turn out to be busts. Judging by the analytics, they should’ve been studs. Just didn’t work out.

So to summarize and answer your question, it’s entirely possible all of those teams were wrong, yes.


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CG, just stick to guarding our coast and you will be successful!

I thought he made a solid point. No need to be condescending because you liked Elmore.
01-26-2019 09:52 AM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #39
Matt Elmore to Transfer
Lol. I have some thick skin. That didn’t bother me.


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01-26-2019 01:47 PM
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Gary Miller Offline
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RE: Matt Elmore to Transfer
(01-26-2019 01:47 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Lol. I have some thick skin. That didn’t bother me.


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You absolutely shouldn’t be, whoever posted that is a joke. Who knew Matt Elmore had such a devoted fan base out there! Glad they’ll always have his 8 points against Furman in a 40 point loss in which he “proved himself” lol.
01-26-2019 03:32 PM
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