I apologize that this is pretty long.


Covington Catholic is one of 30 Catholic high schools in the Cincinnati area (21 in Ohio, 8 in Kentucky, and 1 in Indiana) educating 15,300 students. Although Cincinnati is just the 38th largest Diocese, it has the nation's 6th largest Catholic school system and educates about 25% of all K-8 students in the region.

I graduated from one of these schools. The story of the CovCath kids at the 2019 March for Life has touched a lot of nerves here.

There is a wide array of politics in our community, because our schools teach us to be truly tolerant of different views. I'd guess Trump won our vote 60/40. However, we are not Trump's base.

Most of us are anti-Trump because we have a long institutional memory. We remember being the oppressed immigrants decades ago. We are pro-immigrant. Cincinnati's Catholic Charities has resettled 22,000 refugees here since the 70s, including 10,000 penniless South Vietnamese Catholics in 1975 after the fall of Saigon. To us, Latinos are merely the newest in a long line of immigrants filling our pews.

However, pro-Trump folks are still very welcome under our roof because we're tolerant.

The only political issue our community comes close to agreeing on is being pro-life (much more so than other Catholic communities nationwide). I'd guess that 1/3 of us are 1-issue voters on abortion. Yet Hillary Clinton, despite pro-choice views and other baggage, won easily among Cincinnati Catholics who aren't single-issue voters.

**

When I saw the first clips of the CovCath students with the Indian protester, I was embarrassed. That's not who we are, and anyone who acts that way should be disciplined. We're loud, confident, and outgoing when we travel in groups (I noticed this every single time I left Cincy as part of a high school or UC group), but we do it to seek others to join in our fun, NEVER to insult someone. The Diocese's initial statement of condemnation was entirely appropriate (I also liked that it did not take any knee-jerk disciplinary action yet, allowing time for the full facts to be gathered).

But as the full facts were revealed, I got very, very angry.

The narrative shifted. They attacked our schools, calling them part of a rape culture. They attacked our region, even though they usually misidentified it. They attacked our skin color. Most Catholic Americans are white, so of course a school that teaches Catholicism is going to be 90+% white!

The pictures equating a "blackout" with "blackface" are particularly infuriating. It is laughable to suggest that a Cincinnati Catholic school would allow organized racism at basketball games. The schools take full advantage of the fact that students waive their 1st amendment protections, and they keep a close watch on behavior at sporting events. Greater Catholic League games are intense and rowdy, but any GCL fan can remember schools suspending students or stopping chants for being far, far less objectionable than blackface.

The "blackface" story is obviously false to anyone within our community of hundreds of thousands of people. But that hasn't stop many major news organizations from running with it.

**

Cincinnati Catholics have a long, long institutional memory. We remember being the immigrants in an entirely Protestant country. We vividly remember how the German culture of half our congregation was suppressed in the WW1 era. We remember the tears of joy when JFK became the first Catholic president.

We will not forget how one of our children was targeted for being at a pro-life rally.

We will not forget how the liberal media and the twitter Nazis threatened a child who did nothing wrong.

We will not forget how, after clear proof of innocence was revealed, much of the media doubled down and willfully mislabeled our culture from top-to-bottom.

**

The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

I voted 3rd party in 2016 to protest both candidates. I will vote for Trump in 2020. I'm a wealthy suburbanite with a PhD. I'm a university professor. I'm pro-immigrant, pro-equal opportunity, and pro-poor people. I'm exactly who Democrats need to win over in 2020, and they just convinced me to vote against them. I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is). Better the racist who may discriminate for you than the racist who definitely will discriminate against you.

I suspect I'm not alone. I think that the media has inadvertently convinced 20,000-30,000 swing voters in Southwest Ohio to vote for Trump in 2020 with their coverage of the CovCath kids.

It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long. You can only win a race war if your race is in the majority, and the Census Bureau says the USA is 73% white and 76% Christian. That doesn't bode well for Democrats' electoral chances. The only hope I can see for 2020 Democrats is Hawai'i Democrat Tulsi Gabbard, who called out her own party a few weeks ago for anti-Catholic bias (which is really anti-Christian bias). But that very stance (along with being too late to join national Democrats' rush to change positions on gay marriage) appears to have doomed whatever slim hope she ever had of winning her party's nomination.

I hope and pray that we are able to overcome our ethnic and religious divisions. Maybe someday we'll be able to get back to hating each other for our economic views.

(01-24-2019 06:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I apologize that this is pretty long.


Covington Catholic is one of 30 Catholic high schools in the Cincinnati area (21 in Ohio, 8 in Kentucky, and 1 in Indiana) educating 15,300 students. Although Cincinnati is just the 38th largest Diocese, it has the nation's 6th largest Catholic school system and educates about 25% of all K-8 students in the region.

I graduated from one of these schools. The story of the CovCath kids at the 2019 March for Life has touched a lot of nerves here.

There is a wide array of politics in our community, because our schools teach us to be truly tolerant of different views. I'd guess Trump won our vote 60/40. However, we are not Trump's base.

Most of us are anti-Trump because we have a long institutional memory. We remember being the oppressed immigrants decades ago. We are pro-immigrant. Cincinnati's Catholic Charities has resettled 22,000 refugees here since the 70s, including 10,000 penniless South Vietnamese Catholics in 1975 after the fall of Saigon. To us, Latinos are merely the newest in a long line of immigrants filling our pews.

However, pro-Trump folks are still very welcome under our roof because we're tolerant.

The only political issue our community comes close to agreeing on is being pro-life (much more so than other Catholic communities nationwide). I'd guess that 1/3 of us are 1-issue voters on abortion. Yet Hillary Clinton, despite pro-choice views and other baggage, won easily among Cincinnati Catholics who aren't single-issue voters.

**

When I saw the first clips of the CovCath students with the Indian protester, I was embarrassed. That's not who we are, and anyone who acts that way should be disciplined. We're loud, confident, and outgoing when we travel in groups (I noticed this every single time I left Cincy as part of a high school or UC group), but we do it to seek others to join in our fun, NEVER to insult someone. The Diocese's initial statement of condemnation was entirely appropriate (I also liked that it did not take any knee-jerk disciplinary action yet, allowing time for the full facts to be gathered).

But as the full facts were revealed, I got very, very angry.

The narrative shifted. They attacked our schools, calling them part of a rape culture. They attacked our region, even though they usually misidentified it. They attacked our skin color. Most Catholic Americans are white, so of course a school that teaches Catholicism is going to be 90+% white!

The pictures equating a "blackout" with "blackface" are particularly infuriating. It is laughable to suggest that a Cincinnati Catholic school would allow organized racism at basketball games. The schools take full advantage of the fact that students waive their 1st amendment protections, and they keep a close watch on behavior at sporting events. Greater Catholic League games are intense and rowdy, but any GCL fan can remember schools suspending students or stopping chants for being far, far less objectionable than blackface.

The "blackface" story is obviously false to anyone within our community of hundreds of thousands of people. But that hasn't stop many major news organizations from running with it.

**

Cincinnati Catholics have a long, long institutional memory. We remember being the immigrants in an entirely Protestant country. We vividly remember how the German culture of half our congregation was suppressed in the WW1 era. We remember the tears of joy when JFK became the first Catholic president.

We will not forget how one of our children was targeted for being at a pro-life rally.

We will not forget how the liberal media and the twitter Nazis threatened a child who did nothing wrong.

We will not forget how, after clear proof of innocence was revealed, much of the media doubled down and willfully mislabeled our culture from top-to-bottom.

**

The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

I voted 3rd party in 2016 to protest both candidates. I will vote for Trump in 2020. I'm a wealthy suburbanite with a PhD. I'm a university professor. I'm pro-immigrant, pro-equal opportunity, and pro-poor people. I'm exactly who Democrats need to win over in 2020, and they just convinced me to vote against them. I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is). Better the racist who may discriminate for you than the racist who definitely will discriminate against you.

I suspect I'm not alone. I think that the media has inadvertently convinced 20,000-30,000 swing voters in Southwest Ohio to vote for Trump in 2020 with their coverage of the CovCath kids.

It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long. You can only win a race war if your race is in the majority, and the Census Bureau says the USA is 73% white and 76% Christian. That doesn't bode well for Democrats' electoral chances. The only hope I can see for 2020 Democrats is Hawai'i Democrat Tulsi Gabbard, who called out her own party a few weeks ago for anti-Catholic bias (which is really anti-Christian bias). But that very stance (along with being too late to join national Democrats' rush to change positions on gay marriage) appears to have doomed whatever slim hope she ever had of winning her party's nomination.

I hope and pray that we are able to overcome our ethnic and religious divisions. Maybe someday we'll be able to get back to hating each other for our economic views.

Tulsi Gabbard is a Putin bot. She has zero chance of winning the Democratic Primary. Not a slim chance, but zero.

----

As far as your argument that many Anglos will vote for Trump due to white nationalism/supremacy views, you are correct. But its not enough to win a national election.

Here's the problem with your analysis

73% of American adults are white, but of those

3-5% of the total electorate are anglo LGBT (adults only), 80% of Anglo LGBTers vote Democrat
5% of the total electorate are straight Jews, 70% of them vote Democrat
17-20 percent of the total electorate are Anglo non-religious voters, of which about 70% vote for Democrats

So you can shave 18-21.5 percent off the GOP total, based upon Anglo subgroups.

And that's before mildly religiously affiliated (including liberal religions too) anglo voters, college educated voters, and WOMEN. Shave about another 13-15% off the Anglo total.

----

Subtract out the non-Republican subgroups from the Anglo electorate, and you have about 38-42 percent of the vote that is Anglo Trumpian. In other words, the GOP only gets about 55-58 percent of the Anglo vote. That's pretty much a match with the 2016 and 2018 electoral results (real data).

Trump's hyper masculine, vulgar, white nationalist, evangelical, anti-education, and anti-Gay agenda repels not just the overwhelming majority of minorities, but a significant proportion of Anglos as well.

----

If you didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, you were effectively voting for Trump anyway.

People who are succeptable to white nationalist messaging aren't voting for the Dem in 2020.

----

By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

THere are two Catholic Churches at this time. One is the Austin Ruse, Bill Donahue, Santorum, Cardinal Burke version of Catholicism. The other Catholic Church is frequently a force for good. Just curious, is the Diocese of Northern Kentucky run by the Austin Ruse/Santorum wing? How about the Archdiocese of Cincinnati? I think you may be under the mistaken impression that the two dioceses have the same ideological/political bent.

---

The fact that you're more upset that a 18 year old ADULT mocking an American Indian faced consequences for that, than the Trump Administration committing unspeakable crimes against humanity against 3 year old asylum seekers speaks volumes. I challenge you to look at the bigger picture. Peace.

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Tulsi Gabbard is a Putin bot. She has zero chance of winning the Democratic Primary. Not a slim chance, but zero.

In other words Captain Bearcat ..... Lazy Tom is basically saying that the Democrats and the ultra Liberal media can do anything they want to run down Conservatives and Christians without cause. We can't even wear a MAGA hat anymore just because they say it offends them. You, your vote, and the votes of your white Catholic friends won't make a hill of beans worth of difference in who gets elected. In essence, they get to run over the rest of us at will without any checks and balances.

Of course I hope that isn't the case. I'd hate to wake up in a few years in a Socialist country where I needed to go to the doctor and first had to first clear it with the government that had taken control of my health care to see if they could fit me in anytime soon. Of course, being over 60 they probably would feel that I was too old to spend the money on and tell me to take two aspirin instead of seeing a doctor.

Quote:By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

When did they mock an American Indian? When did they mock black people? If you're saying they did it in the video from the previous week, I'm not buying it at all. It's clear when you watch the longer video that the "Black Hebrews" and the American Indian were taunting the Catholic kids.

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Tulsi Gabbard is a Putin bot. She has zero chance of winning the Democratic Primary. Not a slim chance, but zero.

I can't tell if youre serious or joking...

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people.

Both have been proven false. If you'd take a moment to watch the video of the event you'd see that the boys not mocking the black people in the video.
Also... those black guys that were in the video, are part of a group that the SPLC has labeled a racist hate group. Source: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/...-israelism
You might want to double check with whoever tells you what to think. Do you agree with the SPLC that those black people are bad... or do you agree that the SPLC is a sh*tty organization that slanders people falsely.
You can't have it both ways.


The boys were also not mocking the American Indian.
That narrative has been proven false, and the MSM is running for cover because they realize they pushed a false claim about those boys.

(01-24-2019 07:32 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

Quote:By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

When did they mock an American Indian? When did they mock black people? If you're saying they did it in the video from the previous week, I'm not buying it at all. It's clear when you watch the longer video that the "Black Hebrews" and the American Indian were taunting the Catholic kids.

The left sees and hears only that which they desire to see and hear. It is interesting how those filters work for them and the facts become non-existent. They also all seem to have a built in option that normal humans don't have - an alternate fact generator - that creates an alternate set of facts that gives them what they need to see and hear when reality is too painful for them to bear.

(01-24-2019 06:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

Yes. But, an honest question: Did you really not-know that, until now?

Quote:I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is).

In your opinion, what is the most/worst racist thing he has done as President?

Quote:It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long.

First, let’s be clear that “the Democrats” are not a unified, monolithic bloc anymore than are “the Republicans” or “the Independents”. Instead, “the Democrats” are millions of people who have different priorities and believe different things at different times for different reasons.

But going to your point, I’d say the party overall has “embraced an identity policies strategy” for three main reasons. First is simple pragmatism. I think a lot of Democrats looked at the Obama campaigns of 2008 and 2012 and became convinced that such a strategy is an electoral winner. And I’d have to candidly admit — 2016 notwithstanding — that I’m not so sure they’re wrong. Time will tell.

Second reason could be described as some variant of “group-think”, or go-along-to-get-along. I suspect a lot of Democrats are personally agnostic as to the wisdom/effectiveness of the “identity politics strategy”, but they perceive that their fellow-partisans are mostly in favor of it — and especially the intense, hardcore grassroots types — so they just go with the flow. These are more followers than leaders.

Third reason is one that you touched on yourself in your OP. It doesn’t apply to all Democrats or even a majority of them. But it does apply to a critical mass of them, and I suspect a plurality of them. Namely, this: they hate you. They hate your community and your schools. They hate your churches and they hate your religion. They hate your adults and they hate your teenagers and they hate your kids even younger than that. In their strategy of Identity Politics, your Identity is their Enemy. There is exactly Zero reason to believe any of that is going to change anytime soon.

Most of the time, media-expression of the hatred is subtle. It’s usually more a matter of reading between the lines, of noticing what’s not said as much as what is said, or a juxtaposition of two images/people/stories that may not have political “meaning” by themselves but suddenly do, when placed side by side. They’ve been playing these games for decades now and they are very good at it.

But every now and then, every once in a while, they go off-script. Whether it’s a question of getting sloppy or tired or lazy or just the need to vent, something goes “wrong”. The mask slips, the claws come out and the fangs are bared, and we get a disturbing look at the boiling, psychotic rage that lurks underneath the surface. The rage isn’t usually directed at a 17-year-old kid but if the kid’s very face is deemed a HateCrime, exceptions will be made.

I’d like to share your optimism that some sort of long-term political impact may result from this, but I’d be shocked. I’ve been watching this movie for over 30 years and the ending never seems to change. We shall see if it does this time, or not.

Tom I think I will send your post to be added to the link of slander against these kids. You should be the type they sue. Anyone that can travel all over the world must have deep pockets. Shouldn't be hard for a good Atty to get your real information.

I hope they do exactly what they said and go after everyone of you that think you can hide behind a screen name and call people anything you want. Or keep repeating lies over and over again. I doubt if they do go that far but someone will have to to end the bullsit like you post over and over and over again. Just because you think you can and get away with it

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I apologize that this is pretty long.


Covington Catholic is one of 30 Catholic high schools in the Cincinnati area (21 in Ohio, 8 in Kentucky, and 1 in Indiana) educating 15,300 students. Although Cincinnati is just the 38th largest Diocese, it has the nation's 6th largest Catholic school system and educates about 25% of all K-8 students in the region.

I graduated from one of these schools. The story of the CovCath kids at the 2019 March for Life has touched a lot of nerves here.

There is a wide array of politics in our community, because our schools teach us to be truly tolerant of different views. I'd guess Trump won our vote 60/40. However, we are not Trump's base.

Most of us are anti-Trump because we have a long institutional memory. We remember being the oppressed immigrants decades ago. We are pro-immigrant. Cincinnati's Catholic Charities has resettled 22,000 refugees here since the 70s, including 10,000 penniless South Vietnamese Catholics in 1975 after the fall of Saigon. To us, Latinos are merely the newest in a long line of immigrants filling our pews.

However, pro-Trump folks are still very welcome under our roof because we're tolerant.

The only political issue our community comes close to agreeing on is being pro-life (much more so than other Catholic communities nationwide). I'd guess that 1/3 of us are 1-issue voters on abortion. Yet Hillary Clinton, despite pro-choice views and other baggage, won easily among Cincinnati Catholics who aren't single-issue voters.

**

When I saw the first clips of the CovCath students with the Indian protester, I was embarrassed. That's not who we are, and anyone who acts that way should be disciplined. We're loud, confident, and outgoing when we travel in groups (I noticed this every single time I left Cincy as part of a high school or UC group), but we do it to seek others to join in our fun, NEVER to insult someone. The Diocese's initial statement of condemnation was entirely appropriate (I also liked that it did not take any knee-jerk disciplinary action yet, allowing time for the full facts to be gathered).

But as the full facts were revealed, I got very, very angry.

The narrative shifted. They attacked our schools, calling them part of a rape culture. They attacked our region, even though they usually misidentified it. They attacked our skin color. Most Catholic Americans are white, so of course a school that teaches Catholicism is going to be 90+% white!

The pictures equating a "blackout" with "blackface" are particularly infuriating. It is laughable to suggest that a Cincinnati Catholic school would allow organized racism at basketball games. The schools take full advantage of the fact that students waive their 1st amendment protections, and they keep a close watch on behavior at sporting events. Greater Catholic League games are intense and rowdy, but any GCL fan can remember schools suspending students or stopping chants for being far, far less objectionable than blackface.

The "blackface" story is obviously false to anyone within our community of hundreds of thousands of people. But that hasn't stop many major news organizations from running with it.

**

Cincinnati Catholics have a long, long institutional memory. We remember being the immigrants in an entirely Protestant country. We vividly remember how the German culture of half our congregation was suppressed in the WW1 era. We remember the tears of joy when JFK became the first Catholic president.

We will not forget how one of our children was targeted for being at a pro-life rally.

We will not forget how the liberal media and the twitter Nazis threatened a child who did nothing wrong.

We will not forget how, after clear proof of innocence was revealed, much of the media doubled down and willfully mislabeled our culture from top-to-bottom.

**

The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

I voted 3rd party in 2016 to protest both candidates. I will vote for Trump in 2020. I'm a wealthy suburbanite with a PhD. I'm a university professor. I'm pro-immigrant, pro-equal opportunity, and pro-poor people. I'm exactly who Democrats need to win over in 2020, and they just convinced me to vote against them. I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is). Better the racist who may discriminate for you than the racist who definitely will discriminate against you.

I suspect I'm not alone. I think that the media has inadvertently convinced 20,000-30,000 swing voters in Southwest Ohio to vote for Trump in 2020 with their coverage of the CovCath kids.

It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long. You can only win a race war if your race is in the majority, and the Census Bureau says the USA is 73% white and 76% Christian. That doesn't bode well for Democrats' electoral chances. The only hope I can see for 2020 Democrats is Hawai'i Democrat Tulsi Gabbard, who called out her own party a few weeks ago for anti-Catholic bias (which is really anti-Christian bias). But that very stance (along with being too late to join national Democrats' rush to change positions on gay marriage) appears to have doomed whatever slim hope she ever had of winning her party's nomination.

I hope and pray that we are able to overcome our ethnic and religious divisions. Maybe someday we'll be able to get back to hating each other for our economic views.

Tulsi Gabbard is a Putin bot. She has zero chance of winning the Democratic Primary. Not a slim chance, but zero.

----

As far as your argument that many Anglos will vote for Trump due to white nationalism/supremacy views, you are correct. But its not enough to win a national election.

Here's the problem with your analysis

73% of American adults are white, but of those

3-5% of the total electorate are anglo LGBT (adults only), 80% of Anglo LGBTers vote Democrat
5% of the total electorate are straight Jews, 70% of them vote Democrat
17-20 percent of the total electorate are Anglo non-religious voters, of which about 70% vote for Democrats

So you can shave 18-21.5 percent off the GOP total, based upon Anglo subgroups.

And that's before mildly religiously affiliated (including liberal religions too) anglo voters, college educated voters, and WOMEN. Shave about another 13-15% off the Anglo total.

----

Subtract out the non-Republican subgroups from the Anglo electorate, and you have about 38-42 percent of the vote that is Anglo Trumpian. In other words, the GOP only gets about 55-58 percent of the Anglo vote. That's pretty much a match with the 2016 and 2018 electoral results (real data).

Trump's hyper masculine, vulgar, white nationalist, evangelical, anti-education, and anti-Gay agenda repels not just the overwhelming majority of minorities, but a significant proportion of Anglos as well.

----

If you didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, you were effectively voting for Trump anyway.

People who are succeptable to white nationalist messaging aren't voting for the Dem in 2020.

----

By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

THere are two Catholic Churches at this time. One is the Austin Ruse, Bill Donahue, Santorum, Cardinal Burke version of Catholicism. The other Catholic Church is frequently a force for good. Just curious, is the Diocese of Northern Kentucky run by the Austin Ruse/Santorum wing? How about the Archdiocese of Cincinnati? I think you may be under the mistaken impression that the two dioceses have the same ideological/political bent.

---

The fact that you're more upset that a 18 year old ADULT mocking an American Indian faced consequences for that, than the Trump Administration committing unspeakable crimes against humanity against 3 year old asylum seekers speaks volumes. I challenge you to look at the bigger picture. Peace.

The whole point is Tom that the kid didn't mock an American Indian. He didn't mock anyone and the American Indian was an actor and a plant faking being offended.

Just keep being who you are and posting like this and see how many more fence sitters will have had enough of your Rainbow Coalition tripe.

There's nothing new under the sun. A socialist by any other name is still a socialist. Race baiting is still race baiting even when it is called organizing, and the poor always vote the dole.

The more militant you become the more of the total base you alienate. The demographics will not have shifted much by 2020. The same states will be in play. And the public is getting a belly full of sensationalized lies used to bully. But then again Tom you are here to tell us all how powerful your side is and how we are going to be forced to comply to your world vision. And that vision Tom is why we will win.

(01-24-2019 07:32 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

Quote:By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

When did they mock an American Indian? When did they mock black people? If you're saying they did it in the video from the previous week, I'm not buying it at all. It's clear when you watch the longer video that the "Black Hebrews" and the American Indian were taunting the Catholic kids.

Tom is a bigot against Christians. That is the sum total of his post.

Democratic Senators are trying to disqualify Catholics from serving in government. Gabbard called them out on that. She is the only Democrat I have heard doing that.

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

THere are two Catholic Churches at this time. One is the Austin Ruse, Bill Donahue, Santorum, Cardinal Burke version of Catholicism. The other Catholic Church is frequently a force for good. Just curious, is the Diocese of Northern Kentucky run by the Austin Ruse/Santorum wing? How about the Archdiocese of Cincinnati? I think you may be under the mistaken impression that the two dioceses have the same ideological/political bent.

I don't know how things are in Houston (or wherever you grew up), but racial/economic taunts are dealt with seriously in the Catholic schools in the Midwest. You're projecting your own experience to a place where things are decidedly different.

The vast majority of middle & upper middle class parents in the Midwest would not pay to send their kids to a school that allowed racism of any type.

All-male Catholic schools are very different from other all-male schools. They're mostly white because they're mostly Catholic, not because they chase out minorities. Actually, the non-Catholics who attend tend to be overwhelmingly non-white. It's mostly inner city black kids who live in bad school districts, as well as the kids of 1st generation Indian immigrants (because for some reason Catholic schools are very highly respected in India).


To answer your other question, I've never heard of Austin Ruse or Cardinal Burke. Bill Donohue is a political activist who has his supporters (like my mother-in-law), but he's not a Church leader and a lot of people resent that he claims to speak for all Catholics. I have no idea where you get the idea that Rick Santorum is any sort of leader within the Catholic Church.

But I can tell you that the Church does not have strong "factions" or "cliques." We are a big tent. We keep that big tent by having a wide tolerance for different views (other than theological heresies). Cincinnati & Covington are both clearly doing a good job at not pissing off parents with political differences, because there are 30 Catholic high schools for a Catholic population of around 500,000.

(01-24-2019 08:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

THere are two Catholic Churches at this time. One is the Austin Ruse, Bill Donahue, Santorum, Cardinal Burke version of Catholicism. The other Catholic Church is frequently a force for good. Just curious, is the Diocese of Northern Kentucky run by the Austin Ruse/Santorum wing? How about the Archdiocese of Cincinnati? I think you may be under the mistaken impression that the two dioceses have the same ideological/political bent.

I don't know how things are in Houston (or wherever you grew up), but racial/economic taunts are dealt with seriously in the Catholic schools in the Midwest. You're projecting your own experience to a place where things are decidedly different.

The vast majority of middle & upper middle class parents in the Midwest would not pay to send their kids to a school that allowed racism of any type.

All-male Catholic schools are very different from other all-male schools. They're mostly white because they're mostly Catholic, not because they chase out minorities. Actually, the non-Catholics who attend tend to be overwhelmingly non-white. It's mostly inner city black kids who live in bad school districts, as well as the kids of 1st generation Indian immigrants (because for some reason Catholic schools are very highly respected in India).


To answer your other question, I've never heard of Austin Ruse or Cardinal Burke. Bill Donohue is a political activist who has his supporters (like my mother-in-law), but he's not a Church leader and a lot of people resent that he claims to speak for all Catholics. I have no idea where you get the idea that Rick Santorum is any sort of leader within the Catholic Church.

But I can tell you that the Church does not have strong "factions" or "cliques." We are a big tent. We keep that big tent by having a wide tolerance for different views (other than theological heresies). Cincinnati & Covington are both clearly doing a good job at not pissing off parents with political differences, because there are 30 Catholic high schools for a Catholic population of around 500,000.

Most Catholics in Texas are Hispanic.

(01-24-2019 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

Yes. But, an honest question: Did you really not-know that, until now?

Quote:I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is).

In your opinion, what is the most/worst racist thing he has done as President?

Quote:It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long.

First, let’s be clear that “the Democrats” are not a unified, monolithic bloc anymore than are “the Republicans” or “the Independents”. Instead, “the Democrats” are millions of people who have different priorities and believe different things at different times for different reasons.

But going to your point, I’d say the party overall has “embraced an identity policies strategy” for three main reasons. First is simple pragmatism. I think a lot of Democrats looked at the Obama campaigns of 2008 and 2012 and became convinced that such a strategy is an electoral winner. And I’d have to candidly admit — 2016 notwithstanding — that I’m not so sure they’re wrong. Time will tell.

Second reason could be described as some variant of “group-think”, or go-along-to-get-along. I suspect a lot of Democrats are personally agnostic as to the wisdom/effectiveness of the “identity politics strategy”, but they perceive that their fellow-partisans are mostly in favor of it — and especially the intense, hardcore grassroots types — so they just go with the flow. These are more followers than leaders.

Third reason is one that you touched on yourself in your OP. It doesn’t apply to all Democrats or even a majority of them. But it does apply to a critical mass of them, and I suspect a plurality of them. Namely, this: they hate you. They hate your community and your schools. They hate your churches and they hate your religion. They hate your adults and they hate your teenagers and they hate your kids even younger than that. In their strategy of Identity Politics, your Identity is their Enemy. There is exactly Zero reason to believe any of that is going to change anytime soon.

Most of the time, media-expression of the hatred is subtle. It’s usually more a matter of reading between the lines, of noticing what’s not said as much as what is said, or a juxtaposition of two images/people/stories that may not have political “meaning” by themselves but suddenly do, when placed side by side. They’ve been playing these games for decades now and they are very good at it.

But every now and then, every once in a while, they go off-script. Whether it’s a question of getting sloppy or tired or lazy or just the need to vent, something goes “wrong”. The mask slips, the claws come out and the fangs are bared, and we get a disturbing look at the boiling, psychotic rage that lurks underneath the surface. The rage isn’t usually directed at a 17-year-old kid but if the kid’s very face is deemed a HateCrime, exceptions will be made.

I’d like to share your optimism that some sort of long-term political impact may result from this, but I’d be shocked. I’ve been watching this movie for over 30 years and the ending never seems to change. We shall see if it does this time, or not.

As you say, "Democrats" are not monolithic. I know many non-prejudiced Democrats here in the Midwest. Many are my Catholic friends.

Perhaps I should have known better after living in California the last 3 years.
But yes, the hatred the party leaders and media showed toward CovCath shocked me.


To your other question: Trump's birtherism was pure racism.

But you're right that as President, few of his actions have been prejudiced. There's three exceptions:
1) The travel ban from 7 Muslim countries. At first, it was even for permanent US residents and green card holders - the very groups who came to America because they are the well-educated opponents of the regimes in those countries.
2) his reaction to Charlottesville. Yes, the Antifa counterprotesters were violent and wrong, but the leaders of the Unite the Right rally were proud White Nationalists, and Trump's comment that there's "good people on both sides" was a racist statement for a leader to make.
3) Saying that illegal immigrants are disease carrying murderers. There's enough reasons to oppose illegal immigration without appealing to marginally true stereotypes about an ethnic group.

However, I'd say the same thing about Obama. Other than the treatment of opt-outs for birth control coverage under Obamacare, he had a nearly perfect record at avoiding prejudiced actions/statements in 8 years as President.

Unfortunately, the next round of Democratic politicians do not appear to be following Obama's lead.

(01-24-2019 08:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 08:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 07:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  By the way, pointing out that Covington Catholic has a problem with overt racism, extreme homophobia, and entitlement isn't anti-Catholic. I'd argue that Covington Catholic's students are dangerously close to "scandal to the faith" territory. And not just because they mocked an American Indian. But also because they mocked Black people. At my private, expensive, almost all white, and male only high school the administration would cluck admonitions when some students would misbehave by using racial or economic taunts, but there was never really much done about it. I doubt Covington Catholic is any different, from what I've seen.

THere are two Catholic Churches at this time. One is the Austin Ruse, Bill Donahue, Santorum, Cardinal Burke version of Catholicism. The other Catholic Church is frequently a force for good. Just curious, is the Diocese of Northern Kentucky run by the Austin Ruse/Santorum wing? How about the Archdiocese of Cincinnati? I think you may be under the mistaken impression that the two dioceses have the same ideological/political bent.

I don't know how things are in Houston (or wherever you grew up), but racial/economic taunts are dealt with seriously in the Catholic schools in the Midwest. You're projecting your own experience to a place where things are decidedly different.

The vast majority of middle & upper middle class parents in the Midwest would not pay to send their kids to a school that allowed racism of any type.

All-male Catholic schools are very different from other all-male schools. They're mostly white because they're mostly Catholic, not because they chase out minorities. Actually, the non-Catholics who attend tend to be overwhelmingly non-white. It's mostly inner city black kids who live in bad school districts, as well as the kids of 1st generation Indian immigrants (because for some reason Catholic schools are very highly respected in India).


To answer your other question, I've never heard of Austin Ruse or Cardinal Burke. Bill Donohue is a political activist who has his supporters (like my mother-in-law), but he's not a Church leader and a lot of people resent that he claims to speak for all Catholics. I have no idea where you get the idea that Rick Santorum is any sort of leader within the Catholic Church.

But I can tell you that the Church does not have strong "factions" or "cliques." We are a big tent. We keep that big tent by having a wide tolerance for different views (other than theological heresies). Cincinnati & Covington are both clearly doing a good job at not pissing off parents with political differences, because there are 30 Catholic high schools for a Catholic population of around 500,000.

Most Catholics in Texas are Hispanic.

The majority of Hispanic Americans are white.

Mexico is not a uni-racial country. Neither is any Latin American country, other than some of the Carribean islands that are almost all black.

Most 2nd generation Hispanic Americans are just white Catholics. There's a lot of Italian Catholic Americans that are darker than 80% of Hispanics.

(01-24-2019 09:03 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

Yes. But, an honest question: Did you really not-know that, until now?

Quote:I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is).

In your opinion, what is the most/worst racist thing he has done as President?

Quote:It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long.

First, let’s be clear that “the Democrats” are not a unified, monolithic bloc anymore than are “the Republicans” or “the Independents”. Instead, “the Democrats” are millions of people who have different priorities and believe different things at different times for different reasons.

But going to your point, I’d say the party overall has “embraced an identity policies strategy” for three main reasons. First is simple pragmatism. I think a lot of Democrats looked at the Obama campaigns of 2008 and 2012 and became convinced that such a strategy is an electoral winner. And I’d have to candidly admit — 2016 notwithstanding — that I’m not so sure they’re wrong. Time will tell.

Second reason could be described as some variant of “group-think”, or go-along-to-get-along. I suspect a lot of Democrats are personally agnostic as to the wisdom/effectiveness of the “identity politics strategy”, but they perceive that their fellow-partisans are mostly in favor of it — and especially the intense, hardcore grassroots types — so they just go with the flow. These are more followers than leaders.

Third reason is one that you touched on yourself in your OP. It doesn’t apply to all Democrats or even a majority of them. But it does apply to a critical mass of them, and I suspect a plurality of them. Namely, this: they hate you. They hate your community and your schools. They hate your churches and they hate your religion. They hate your adults and they hate your teenagers and they hate your kids even younger than that. In their strategy of Identity Politics, your Identity is their Enemy. There is exactly Zero reason to believe any of that is going to change anytime soon.

Most of the time, media-expression of the hatred is subtle. It’s usually more a matter of reading between the lines, of noticing what’s not said as much as what is said, or a juxtaposition of two images/people/stories that may not have political “meaning” by themselves but suddenly do, when placed side by side. They’ve been playing these games for decades now and they are very good at it.

But every now and then, every once in a while, they go off-script. Whether it’s a question of getting sloppy or tired or lazy or just the need to vent, something goes “wrong”. The mask slips, the claws come out and the fangs are bared, and we get a disturbing look at the boiling, psychotic rage that lurks underneath the surface. The rage isn’t usually directed at a 17-year-old kid but if the kid’s very face is deemed a HateCrime, exceptions will be made.

I’d like to share your optimism that some sort of long-term political impact may result from this, but I’d be shocked. I’ve been watching this movie for over 30 years and the ending never seems to change. We shall see if it does this time, or not.

As you say, "Democrats" are not monolithic. I know many non-prejudiced Democrats here in the Midwest. Many are my Catholic friends.

Perhaps I should have known better after living in California the last 3 years.
But yes, the hatred the party leaders and media showed toward CovCath shocked me.


To your other question: Trump's birtherism was pure racism.

But you're right that as President, few of his actions have been prejudiced. There's three exceptions:
1) The travel ban from 7 Muslim countries. At first, it was even for permanent US residents and green card holders - the very groups who came to America because they are the well-educated opponents of the regimes in those countries.
2) his reaction to Charlottesville. Yes, the Antifa counterprotesters were violent and wrong, but the leaders of the Unite the Right rally were proud White Nationalists, and Trump's comment that there's "good people on both sides" was a racist statement for a leader to make.
3) Saying that illegal immigrants are disease carrying murderers. There's enough reasons to oppose illegal immigration without appealing to marginally true stereotypes about an ethnic group.

However, I'd say the same thing about Obama. Other than the treatment of opt-outs for birth control coverage under Obamacare, he had a nearly perfect record at avoiding prejudiced actions/statements in 8 years as President.

Unfortunately, the next round of Democratic politicians do not appear to be following Obama's lead.

I have news for you Captain. The Dems next target is Christianity, moreover white Christianity. As Blacks and brown Hispanics will be exempt. It is just another attempt at identity politics, anything traditional American....European Male heritage in in play. The left is already using #exposechristianschools.

I guarantee it.

Black Christians aren't stupid. They are already waking up.

(01-24-2019 09:03 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The Left's media has revealed to me how much they hate my community, and worse, how little they care to understand us.

Yes. But, an honest question: Did you really not-know that, until now?

Quote:I no longer care that Trump is a racist, corrupt sleezebag (he is).

In your opinion, what is the most/worst racist thing he has done as President?

Quote:It's baffling to me why the Democrats have embraced an identity politics strategy for so long.

First, let’s be clear that “the Democrats” are not a unified, monolithic bloc anymore than are “the Republicans” or “the Independents”. Instead, “the Democrats” are millions of people who have different priorities and believe different things at different times for different reasons.

But going to your point, I’d say the party overall has “embraced an identity policies strategy” for three main reasons. First is simple pragmatism. I think a lot of Democrats looked at the Obama campaigns of 2008 and 2012 and became convinced that such a strategy is an electoral winner. And I’d have to candidly admit — 2016 notwithstanding — that I’m not so sure they’re wrong. Time will tell.

Second reason could be described as some variant of “group-think”, or go-along-to-get-along. I suspect a lot of Democrats are personally agnostic as to the wisdom/effectiveness of the “identity politics strategy”, but they perceive that their fellow-partisans are mostly in favor of it — and especially the intense, hardcore grassroots types — so they just go with the flow. These are more followers than leaders.

Third reason is one that you touched on yourself in your OP. It doesn’t apply to all Democrats or even a majority of them. But it does apply to a critical mass of them, and I suspect a plurality of them. Namely, this: they hate you. They hate your community and your schools. They hate your churches and they hate your religion. They hate your adults and they hate your teenagers and they hate your kids even younger than that. In their strategy of Identity Politics, your Identity is their Enemy. There is exactly Zero reason to believe any of that is going to change anytime soon.

Most of the time, media-expression of the hatred is subtle. It’s usually more a matter of reading between the lines, of noticing what’s not said as much as what is said, or a juxtaposition of two images/people/stories that may not have political “meaning” by themselves but suddenly do, when placed side by side. They’ve been playing these games for decades now and they are very good at it.

But every now and then, every once in a while, they go off-script. Whether it’s a question of getting sloppy or tired or lazy or just the need to vent, something goes “wrong”. The mask slips, the claws come out and the fangs are bared, and we get a disturbing look at the boiling, psychotic rage that lurks underneath the surface. The rage isn’t usually directed at a 17-year-old kid but if the kid’s very face is deemed a HateCrime, exceptions will be made.

I’d like to share your optimism that some sort of long-term political impact may result from this, but I’d be shocked. I’ve been watching this movie for over 30 years and the ending never seems to change. We shall see if it does this time, or not.

As you say, "Democrats" are not monolithic. I know many non-prejudiced Democrats here in the Midwest. Many are my Catholic friends.

Perhaps I should have known better after living in California the last 3 years.
But yes, the hatred the party leaders and media showed toward CovCath shocked me.


To your other question: Trump's birtherism was pure racism.

But you're right that as President, few of his actions have been prejudiced. There's three exceptions:
1) The travel ban from 7 Muslim countries. At first, it was even for permanent US residents and green card holders - the very groups who came to America because they are the well-educated opponents of the regimes in those countries.
2) his reaction to Charlottesville. Yes, the Antifa counterprotesters were violent and wrong, but the leaders of the Unite the Right rally were proud White Nationalists, and Trump's comment that there's "good people on both sides" was a racist statement for a leader to make.
3) Saying that illegal immigrants are disease carrying murderers. There's enough reasons to oppose illegal immigration without appealing to marginally true stereotypes about an ethnic group.

However, I'd say the same thing about Obama. Other than the treatment of opt-outs for birth control coverage under Obamacare, he had a nearly perfect record at avoiding prejudiced actions/statements in 8 years as President.

Unfortunately, the next round of Democratic politicians do not appear to be following Obama's lead.

Birtherism was just stupid, not racist.

The travel ban was based on a list prepared by the Obama administration. So was the Obama administration racist?

The comment about good people was about people opposing Confederate monuments, not the groups in the confrontations. And a survey showed that most people, including nearly half of Democrats, think those monuments are not about racism.

He said a lot of (not all) illegal immigrants were disease carrying murderers. That may be exaggerated, but it is a fact. TB is a problem in the US specifically because of illegal aliens. And there have been a number of murders, especially in recent years, by illegal aliens. Its not much of an issue in Cincinnati, but it is in other parts of the country.

And how can it be racist is most Hispanics are white? You are contradicting yourself between posts.

(01-24-2019 10:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  Black Christians aren't stupid. They are already waking up.

They will be told that Christianity is a white mans religion although Africans, black and brown where Christians before Europeans. Toxic White Christianity, you heard it here first.