It's dead around here, so...

RESPECT - what's it going to take?
Seems like this SI mailbag question gets asked every off-season, doesn't it?

Quote:From Tim: The ACC has won three of the last six national championships. The SEC has two and the Big Ten only one. Clemson has a good shot at one or two more over the next couple years. Yet the ACC is still the Rodney Dangerfield of Power 5 conferences. Why is that?
Tim, you must be talking to people who don’t actually watch college football because people who do don’t view the ACC that way. Yes, the league was weaker top-to-bottom in 2018 than it has been in years, but that’s probably an anomaly due to Bobby Petrino quitting well before he got fired at Louisville and a horrific first year for Willie Taggart at Florida State. Plus, as everyone saw last week when Clemson demolished Alabama, the ACC absolutely had the nation’s best team in 2018.

The ACC has come a long way from the BCS era, when it was the poster child for conference mediocrity. As the playoff era dawned, it got better at the top and deeper in the middle. It got better in its annual rivalry games against SEC teams. Clemson and Florida State turned losing streaks against South Carolina and Florida into dominant winning streaks. (Florida struck back against Florida State this year, but the Gamecocks remain well behind the Tigers.) The real issue now has been consistency among the programs not named Clemson.

North Carolina broke through with a Coastal Division title in 2015 and then fell off a cliff. NC State has had its moments but keeps losing to Wake Forest and got shelled by Texas A&M in the Belk Bowl. Virginia Tech seemed to be back to its consistently competent ways in Justin Fuente’s first two years, but the Hokies went 6–7 in 2018. Miami rose and then fell again, and the Hurricanes are hoping Manny Diaz can produce a more consistent product.

What should be exciting for the league is that Scott Satterfield will get Louisville going quickly. Florida State will bounce back—either because Taggart engineered a turnaround or because the Seminoles found someone who could. What Dino Babers is doing at Syracuse looks sustainable, and Pittsburgh seemed to finally find itself in the back half of 2018. (Even though the Panthers are undergoing another offensive overhaul this offseason.)

The ACC isn’t anywhere close to the Rodney Dangerfield of Power 5 leagues. That’s clearly the Pac-12. And not Back To School, triple-lindy Rodney Dangerfield. We’re talking Ladybugs, just-here-for-the-check-and-the-chance-to-hang-with-Jackee Rodney Dangerfield.

Look, I get it - the ACC had a bad non-conference record last season, and most of its flagship teams faltered... but what the league failed to do in the regular season it did in the bowls, and fresh faces taking over at Louisville, UNC, Georgia Tech and Miami could be just what the doctor prescribed!

If anything, I'd say the ACC started weak but ended pretty strong - which bodes well for 2019.

Now, when the ACC gets PAID appropriately for its performance and TV ratings... that's another question.

I voted "No", mainly because I believe the league will "underperform" in comparison with 2014-2017 with just a slight improvement over 2018.

I think 2020 will be the year the conference is back to where it was, maybe even better than in 2014-2017.

Cheers,
Neil

(01-22-2019 06:40 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  I voted "No", mainly because I believe the league will "underperform" in comparison with 2014-2017 with just a slight improvement over 2018.

I think 2020 will be the year the conference is back to where it was, maybe even better than in 2014-2017.

Cheers,
Neil

Or 2021. Louisville, UNC, Georgia Tech are looking at multiyear re-builds.

I never know what to expect out of Miami. In any given year, they should have enough talent to win the Coastal. I don't see why they were so bad last year.

Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

I don't hold FSU any more responsible than VT and the U... the 3 are all "football first" schools.

In the case of FSU, I blame Fisher - he really did the Noles dirty. With Miami, I think Richt took them as far as he could (his offense just wasn't getting it done at all though). For VT, it's what happens when a too-thin roster meets up with injuries and suspensions.

All 3 teams are capable of bouncing back quickly, IMO... but they have to DO IT.

(01-22-2019 08:01 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 06:40 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  I voted "No", mainly because I believe the league will "underperform" in comparison with 2014-2017 with just a slight improvement over 2018.

I think 2020 will be the year the conference is back to where it was, maybe even better than in 2014-2017.

Cheers,
Neil

Or 2021. Louisville, UNC, Georgia Tech are looking at multiyear re-builds.

I never know what to expect out of Miami. In any given year, they should have enough talent to win the Coastal. I don't see why they were so bad last year.

I feel like we'll know a LOT about all 3 of those teams by the 2020 season. So far signs from GT are very positive. Louisville has a Wake Forest / NC State vibe to me. UNC? I have no stinking idea what they are doing with Mack Brown... JMO.

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

I've never understood why some fans think the ACC is getting paid less than it "deserves". Yes, it has come a long way in the past five years. But it still ranks last among the P5 in on field performance, both in win% vs other P5 teams and in win% vs all FBS teams during that span. You could make a case that they are actually overpaid.

(01-23-2019 08:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

I've never understood why some fans think the ACC is getting paid less than it "deserves". Yes, it has come a long way in the past five years. But it still ranks last among the P5 in on field performance, both in win% vs other P5 teams and in win% vs all FBS teams during that span. You could make a case that they are actually overpaid.

When it comes to TV money, the only thing that SHOULD matter is TV ratings. OK, maybe demographics also (which the ACC has GREAT demographics). Doesn't really matter if they watch you lose or win... as long as they watch.

As an outsider whose alma mater is permanently stuck in the G5 this whole "lack of respect" thing humors me. No matter the P5 conference--- ACC, B10, B12, PAC12 or SEC, I read similar threads from fans whose institutions are making serious coin and have access to the CFP complain how much bad they have it.

Trust me my friends-- it all could be much worse.

(01-23-2019 09:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As an outsider whose alma mater is permanently stuck in the G5 this whole "lack of respect" thing humors me. No matter the P5 conference--- ACC, B10, B12, PAC12 or SEC, I read similar threads from fans whose institutions are making serious coin and have access to the CFP complain how much bad they have it.

Trust me my friends-- it all could be much worse.

I totally feel for teams like Cincinnati... the Bearcats tried to join the club about 10 years too late (VT barely got in before the door was locked!)

(01-23-2019 08:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

I've never understood why some fans think the ACC is getting paid less than it "deserves". Yes, it has come a long way in the past five years. But it still ranks last among the P5 in on field performance, both in win% vs other P5 teams and in win% vs all FBS teams during that span. You could make a case that they are actually overpaid.

TV contracts are based on TV ratings.

Period. nothing else.

(01-23-2019 10:34 AM)nole Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 08:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

I've never understood why some fans think the ACC is getting paid less than it "deserves". Yes, it has come a long way in the past five years. But it still ranks last among the P5 in on field performance, both in win% vs other P5 teams and in win% vs all FBS teams during that span. You could make a case that they are actually overpaid.

TV contracts are based on TV ratings.

Period. nothing else.

And I assume the networks take that into account when they bid or decline to bid on a conference package. You only "deserve" what someone is willing to pay you.

(01-23-2019 11:02 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 10:34 AM)nole Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 08:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford. He is a mess.

ACC HAS to get more from Va Tech, Miami, and especially FSU (FSU is killing the ACC right now). The coastal being a mess really hurts as well. ACC needs to see 3-5 top 25 teams at all time.

I've never understood why some fans think the ACC is getting paid less than it "deserves". Yes, it has come a long way in the past five years. But it still ranks last among the P5 in on field performance, both in win% vs other P5 teams and in win% vs all FBS teams during that span. You could make a case that they are actually overpaid.

TV contracts are based on TV ratings.

Period. nothing else.

And I assume the networks take that into account when they bid or decline to bid on a conference package. You only "deserve" what someone is willing to pay you.

The ACC's tv revenue is a result of bad timing and short sightedness in regards to market awareness and loyalty to long time partners. When the league signed its original long term tv deal, it was seen as a very good deal, being just a couple million short of the SEC tv deal with espn per team. But then the tv markets exploded when the Pac 10 signed their new deal. The ACC unfortunately had put all their eggs in the ESPN basket and had no other alternative but to expand in order to open up negotiations for an increase.

ESPN didnt have to give the ACC such an increase but they did, which put the league near other leagues. If the SEC had not launched the SECN, they would be in a similar situation as the ACC, although they would still have their deal with CBS. After the SEC and the BIG, the ACC is solidly in third place in tv ratings. Yet the league is fifth in tv revenue. The ACC is certainly underpaid.

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford...

(01-23-2019 11:23 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  The ACC's tv revenue is a result of bad timing and short sightedness in regards to market awareness and loyalty to long time partners. When the league signed its original long term tv deal, it was seen as a very good deal, being just a couple million short of the SEC tv deal with espn per team. But then the tv markets exploded when the Pac 10 signed their new deal. The ACC unfortunately had put all their eggs in the ESPN basket and had no other alternative but to expand in order to open up negotiations for an increase.

ESPN didnt have to give the ACC such an increase but they did, which put the league near other leagues. If the SEC had not launched the SECN, they would be in a similar situation as the ACC, although they would still have their deal with CBS. After the SEC and the BIG, the ACC is solidly in third place in tv ratings. Yet the league is fifth in tv revenue. The ACC is certainly underpaid.

Fans of the new member schools (FSU, Syracuse and VT) all agree... it MUST be true!

(01-23-2019 11:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford...

(01-23-2019 11:23 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  The ACC's tv revenue is a result of bad timing and short sightedness in regards to market awareness and loyalty to long time partners. When the league signed its original long term tv deal, it was seen as a very good deal, being just a couple million short of the SEC tv deal with espn per team. But then the tv markets exploded when the Pac 10 signed their new deal. The ACC unfortunately had put all their eggs in the ESPN basket and had no other alternative but to expand in order to open up negotiations for an increase.

ESPN didnt have to give the ACC such an increase but they did, which put the league near other leagues. If the SEC had not launched the SECN, they would be in a similar situation as the ACC, although they would still have their deal with CBS. After the SEC and the BIG, the ACC is solidly in third place in tv ratings. Yet the league is fifth in tv revenue. The ACC is certainly underpaid.

Fans of the new member schools (FSU, Syracuse and VT) all agree... it MUST be true!

I have always agreed that the ACC is underpaid and deserves to be paid accordingly right along with other top conferences and that the leaders of the ACC have failed in these areas. What I don't agree with is the constant whining and moaning about it and all the fingers pointing at Swofford. Because each president deserves a finger pointed right in their faces right along with Swofford.

Whining and moaning about it doesnt help anyone because things are not going to improve until they improve.

(01-23-2019 12:45 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 11:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 08:38 PM)nole Wrote:  Agree the ACC HAS to get paid like it deserves. And it deserves MUCH more than it gets. Horrible negotiation by Swofford...

(01-23-2019 11:23 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  The ACC's tv revenue is a result of bad timing and short sightedness in regards to market awareness and loyalty to long time partners. When the league signed its original long term tv deal, it was seen as a very good deal, being just a couple million short of the SEC tv deal with espn per team. But then the tv markets exploded when the Pac 10 signed their new deal. The ACC unfortunately had put all their eggs in the ESPN basket and had no other alternative but to expand in order to open up negotiations for an increase.

ESPN didnt have to give the ACC such an increase but they did, which put the league near other leagues. If the SEC had not launched the SECN, they would be in a similar situation as the ACC, although they would still have their deal with CBS. After the SEC and the BIG, the ACC is solidly in third place in tv ratings. Yet the league is fifth in tv revenue. The ACC is certainly underpaid.

Fans of the new member schools (FSU, Syracuse and VT) all agree... it MUST be true!

I have always agreed that the ACC is underpaid and deserves to be paid accordingly right along with other top conferences and that the leaders of the ACC have failed in these areas. What I don't agree with is the constant whining and moaning about it and all the fingers pointing at Swofford. Because each president deserves a finger pointed right in their faces right along with Swofford.

Whining and moaning about it doesnt help anyone because things are not going to improve until they improve.

My point was that some fans of the original members - especially the NC schools - don't think the ACC is underpaid at all. They believe the contract is fine and everyone did a great job negotiating it...

"The ACC is seriously underpaid."

There is one conference, and one conference only, imho, that is seriously underpaid - and that is the SEC.

Over the past six seasons, they have 5 programs that have averaged over 4.25 million viewers per televised conference appearance (CBS, ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU) and that is excluding the SECCGs. In order those five programs are Alabama (which averages over 6 million viewers), LSU, Auburn, Georgia, and Texas A&M.

The next level down they have 3 more programs that average more than 3 million viewers per televised conference appearance - Tennessee, Florida, and Ole Miss.

The ACC is indeed underpaid when comparing ourselves to the Big 12 and the PAC but the difference between the Lesser 3 is slight in comparison. Just trying to add some perspective with this post.

Cheers,
Neil

(01-23-2019 09:54 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 09:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As an outsider whose alma mater is permanently stuck in the G5 this whole "lack of respect" thing humors me. No matter the P5 conference--- ACC, B10, B12, PAC12 or SEC, I read similar threads from fans whose institutions are making serious coin and have access to the CFP complain how much bad they have it.

Trust me my friends-- it all could be much worse.

I totally feel for teams like Cincinnati... the Bearcats tried to join the club about 10 years too late (VT barely got in before the door was locked!)

We WERE in the club.

Just one day we show up and our key fob no longer worked.

(01-23-2019 04:51 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 09:54 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 09:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As an outsider whose alma mater is permanently stuck in the G5 this whole "lack of respect" thing humors me. No matter the P5 conference--- ACC, B10, B12, PAC12 or SEC, I read similar threads from fans whose institutions are making serious coin and have access to the CFP complain how much bad they have it.

Trust me my friends-- it all could be much worse.

I totally feel for teams like Cincinnati... the Bearcats tried to join the club about 10 years too late (VT barely got in before the door was locked!)

We WERE in the club.

Just one day we show up and our key fob no longer worked.

Cincinnati should be in the club. There’s too many schools grandfathered in taking the places of more deserving programs like the Bearcats. It’s not those schools fault but timing is everything.

Also, it doesn’t matter one iota what people call the ACC. 3 out of the last 6 national champions in football with 1 runner-up. Only conference other than the SEC to appear in every CFP. Consistent national championship contention in basketball, soccer, and lacrosse. Overall the best division 1 academic conference save for the Ivy League and maybe the Patriot - the best in FBS. East Coast dominance in market presence. The ability to get Notre Dame to secure an annual set of football games.

If the ACCN works out then great. If not, there could be enough identity differences in the conference for it to fissure apart.