Here is how I see it:

1. Marshall WSU
2. Sampson UH
3. Cronin UC
4. Gregory USF
5. Dawkins UCF
6. Hurley UCONN
7. Hardaway Memphis
8. Dooley ECU
9. Jank SMU
10. Dunphy Temple
11. Haith Tulsa
12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane

Top 3 are solidly in place and time proven.

I think Gregory will only get better.
Verdict still out on Hurley and Hardaway. Not sold on either of them long term.
Dooley will improve and be solid.

Dunphy is gone so no point in commenting beyond that.

I think Haith deserves more time.

Jank and Dunleavy need to go IMO.


Thoughts? Discuss...

(01-22-2019 01:30 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Here is how I see it:

1. Marshall WSU
2. Sampson UH
3. Cronin UC
4. Gregory USF
5. Dawkins UCF
6. Hurley UCONN
7. Hardaway Memphis
8. Dooley ECU
9. Jank SMU
10. Dunphy Temple
11. Haith Tulsa
12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane

Top 3 are solidly in place and time proven.

I think Gregory will only get better.
Verdict still out on Hurley and Hardaway. Not sold on either of them long term.
Dooley will improve and be solid.

Dunphy is gone so no point in commenting beyond that.

I think Haith deserves more time.

Jank and Dunleavy need to go IMO.


Thoughts? Discuss...

Subject to future game results, here is my list
1. Sampson - Houston (5-1)
1. Cronin - Cincy (5-1)
3. Dawkins - UCF (4-1)
3. Dunphy - Temple (4-1)
3. Hardaway - Memphis (4-1)
6. Jank - SMU (3-3)
7. Gregory - USF (2-4)
7. Haith Tulsa (2-4)
7. Hurley - UConn (2-4)
10. Marshall - WSU (1-4)
10. Dooley - ECU (1-4)
12. Dunleavy -
Tulane (0-5)

Buy Haith. Sell Dawkins.

1) 2. Sampson UH- won EVERY where he has gone, at an elite level normally with less talent (1 lottery pick in his entire career)

2) 1. Marshall WSU- i have questions about his ability to win in bigger league to the level of succes he had at mvc

3) 3. Cronin UC- lack of tourney success but always gets them there

4) 10. Dunphy Temple- this is the worst 3 year run of his career..it says alot when that includes a 14-4 season

5) 6. Hurley UCONN- eliter recruiter, elite x and os, elite motivator..i think he will join the ranks of the "elite coaches" in few years

6) 11. Haith Tulsa - can get you into the ncaa once every 4 years, with some occasional nits

7) 4. Gregory USF- his teams are almost never bad, they also are rarely ever elite

8) 5. Dawkins UCF - remove the recency bias (this specific year, with tons of seniors, unique 7'6 player) he has the inability to make elite teams, even when expected.. lots of nit experience

9) 9. Jank SMU- larry browns players but 30-5 regardless is not easy to do..he has no ability to recruit what so ever, but is a quality x and os guy

10) 12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane- was the nba coach of the year at 1 point, tulane isnt an easy place to win or recruit, its only year 3...im on the fire dunleavy train, but most coach would be in the same situation had they gone to tulane

11) 7. Hardaway Memphis- honestly hasnt shown me anything (..yet)..ironic that its tubby's juco that he developed, that Memphis fans complained about that, that are carrying Memphis .. elite recruiting is still a coaching ability

12) 8. Dooley ECU - i dont think he is bad, but someone has to be last

(01-22-2019 02:13 PM)pesik Wrote:  6) 4. Gregory USF- his teams are almost never bad, they also are rarely ever elite

Are you talking about a different Gregory?

The one I am thinking about went 27-61 in conf games during his recent 5 years at Ga Tech and is 5-19 in AAC Conf games over the past 1.5 years in Tampa.

What is your definition of "almost never bad"?

(01-22-2019 02:18 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 02:13 PM)pesik Wrote:  6) 4. Gregory USF- his teams are almost never bad, they also are rarely ever elite

Are you talking about a different Gregory?

The one I am thinking about went 27-61 in conf games during his recent 5 years at Ga Tech and is 5-19 in AAC Conf games over the past 1.5 years in Tampa.

What is your definition of "almost never bad"?

lol the acc is a battle every night, 30% in the acc is the definition of "almost never bad, they also are rarely ever elite"..he beat at least 1 top 25 every single year he was at gtech

and lol using current aac conference records is meaningless...memphis has played the softest schedule so they look great, usf has played arguably the hardest conference slate and could have honestly came out 5-1 with how close the games were

(01-22-2019 01:56 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 01:30 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Here is how I see it:

1. Marshall WSU
2. Sampson UH
3. Cronin UC
4. Gregory USF
5. Dawkins UCF
6. Hurley UCONN
7. Hardaway Memphis
8. Dooley ECU
9. Jank SMU
10. Dunphy Temple
11. Haith Tulsa
12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane

Top 3 are solidly in place and time proven.

I think Gregory will only get better.
Verdict still out on Hurley and Hardaway. Not sold on either of them long term.
Dooley will improve and be solid.

Dunphy is gone so no point in commenting beyond that.

I think Haith deserves more time.

Jank and Dunleavy need to go IMO.


Thoughts? Discuss...

Subject to future game results, here is my list
1. Sampson - Houston (5-1)
1. Cronin - Cincy (5-1)
3. Dawkins - UCF (4-1)
3. Dunphy - Temple (4-1)
3. Hardaway - Memphis (4-1)
6. Jank - SMU (3-3)
7. Gregory - USF (2-4)
7. Haith Tulsa (2-4)
7. Hurley - UConn (2-4)
10. Marshall - WSU (1-4)
10. Dooley - ECU (1-4)
12. Dunleavy -
Tulane (0-5)

so your ranking is basically based on their YTD conference record only...got it.

I see what you did there.

It was the only way to get Penny into the #3 spot. Nice job.

Head to head for Cronin:

2-1 vs. Marshall
7-2 vs. Sampson
3-1 vs. Dawkins
7-3 vs. Dunphy
0-0 vs. Hardaway
4-2 vs. Jankovich
2-0 vs. Gregory
6-1 vs. Haith
1-0 vs. Hurley
4-0 vs. Dunleavy
0-1 vs. Dooley


Obviously Cronin has been at his job way longer than most of the guys here, but it kind of funny that they only one with a winning record against him is first year coach Dooley.

This is also the record at their current schools, not including other games in the past at different places.

(01-22-2019 01:30 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Here is how I see it:

1. Marshall WSU
2. Sampson UH
3. Cronin UC
4. Gregory USF
5. Dawkins UCF
6. Hurley UCONN
7. Hardaway Memphis
8. Dooley ECU
9. Jank SMU
10. Dunphy Temple
11. Haith Tulsa
12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane

Top 3 are solidly in place and time proven.

I think Gregory will only get better.
Verdict still out on Hurley and Hardaway. Not sold on either of them long term.
Dooley will improve and be solid.

Dunphy is gone so no point in commenting beyond that.

I think Haith deserves more time.

Jank and Dunleavy need to go IMO.


Thoughts? Discuss...

Fair. I'd probably put Dunphy higher but honestly 4 through 12 are a toss up depending on what you want to look at.

(01-22-2019 02:59 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  Head to head for Cronin:

2-1 vs. Marshall
7-2 vs. Sampson
3-1 vs. Dawkins
7-3 vs. Dunphy
0-0 vs. Hardaway
4-2 vs. Jankovich
2-0 vs. Gregory
6-1 vs. Haith
1-0 vs. Hurley
4-0 vs. Dunleavy
0-1 vs. Dooley


Obviously Cronin has been at his job way longer than most of the guys here, but it kind of funny that they only one with a winning record against him is first year coach Dooley.

This is also the record at their current schools, not including other games in the past at different places.

He is 1-1 against Hurley. Hurley beat Cincy when at URI two years ago.

(01-22-2019 02:13 PM)pesik Wrote:  1) 2. Sampson UH- won EVERY where he has gone, at an elite level normally with less talent (1 lottery pick in his entire career)

2) 1. Marshall WSU- i have questions about his ability to win in bigger league to the level of succes he had at mvc

3) 3. Cronin UC- lack of tourney success but always gets them there

4) 10. Dunphy Temple- this is the worst 3 year run of his career..it says alot when that includes a 14-4 season

5) 6. Hurley UCONN- eliter recruiter, elite x and os, elite motivator..i think he will join the ranks of the "elite coaches" in few years

6) 11. Haith Tulsa - can get you into the ncaa once every 4 years, with some occasional nits

7) 4. Gregory USF- his teams are almost never bad, they also are rarely ever elite

8) 5. Dawkins UCF - remove the recency bias (this specific year, with tons of seniors, unique 7'6 player) he has the inability to make elite teams, even when expected.. lots of nit experience

9) 9. Jank SMU- larry browns players but 30-5 regardless is not easy to do..he has no ability to recruit what so ever, but is a quality x and os guy

10) 12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane- was the nba coach of the year at 1 point, tulane isnt an easy place to win or recruit, its only year 3...im on the fire dunleavy train, but most coach would be in the same situation had they gone to tulane

11) 7. Hardaway Memphis- honestly hasnt shown me anything (..yet)..ironic that its tubby's juco that he developed, that Memphis fans complained about that, that are carrying Memphis .. elite recruiting is still a coaching ability

12) 8. Dooley ECU - i dont think he is bad, but someone has to be last

let it be noted that Mick Cronin has a higher career winning percentage than kelvin Sampson. Mick has won 68% of his games. kelvin has won 65%

Let it also be noted that Kelvin Sampson didn't reach his first sweet 16 until he was in his 16th year as a head coach. He didn't have elite success until his 19th and 20th year as a head coach. This is Mick's 16th year as a head coach. And if you compare Mick Cronin's first 16 years to Kelvin Sampson's, I'll take Mick all damn day. Mick has a sweet 16, the same as Sampson at that point, And yet Mick also has won 68% of his games, which is much better than Sampson and Mick has appeared in 10 NCAA tourney's compared to just 6 for Kelvin Sampson in that same time period. Mick took a mid major to 2 NCAA tourney games as well, something Sampson never did at the mid major level.

So while yes, you can say Kelvin Sampson has a final four and an elite 8 appearance, you have to also say it took him 19 seasons as a coach to accomplish it. Were nearing the end of Kelvin Sampsons career, and yet Mick is one of the winningest coaches in the country under 50 and still has plenty of more coaching to do.

So if Kelvin Sampson career arch can tell UC fans something... its that you don't have to be great right away to accomplish our goals of another final four. Mick has 3.5 seasons left before he reaches the point where Kelvin Sampson had ultimate success.


And if Kelvin Sampson is called a great coach, then Mick has plenty of time to be one as well and is on a trajectory of being better than Sampson.

Best Post Season NCAA Finish as a Head Coach:

1. Marshall (NCAA Tourney Final 4)
1. Sampson (NCAA Tourney Final 4)

3. Cronin (NCAA Tourney Sweet 16)
3. Dawkins (NCAA Tourney Sweet 16)

5. Dunphy (NCAA Tourney Round of 32)
5. Gregory (NCAA Tourney Round of 32)
5. Haith (NCAA Tourney Round of 32)
5. Hurley (NCAA Tourney Round of 32)

9. Dooley (NCAA Tourney Round of 64)
9. Jank (NCAA Tourney Round of 64)

11. Dunleavy (Nothing)
11. Hardaway (Nothing)

(01-22-2019 03:22 PM)BFieldHusky Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 02:59 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  Head to head for Cronin:

2-1 vs. Marshall
7-2 vs. Sampson
3-1 vs. Dawkins
7-3 vs. Dunphy
0-0 vs. Hardaway
4-2 vs. Jankovich
2-0 vs. Gregory
6-1 vs. Haith
1-0 vs. Hurley
4-0 vs. Dunleavy
0-1 vs. Dooley


Obviously Cronin has been at his job way longer than most of the guys here, but it kind of funny that they only one with a winning record against him is first year coach Dooley.

This is also the record at their current schools, not including other games in the past at different places.

He is 1-1 against Hurley. Hurley beat Cincy when at URI two years ago.

I know he is. I was counting games at their current schools and said that at the bottom of the post. I didn't fee like digging to deep into every record to see if they've played prior to UC/current school. I know he split a pair of games with Gregory when he was at Dayton.

(01-22-2019 02:13 PM)pesik Wrote:  1) 2. Sampson UH- won EVERY where he has gone, at an elite level normally with less talent (1 lottery pick in his entire career)

2) 1. Marshall WSU- i have questions about his ability to win in bigger league to the level of succes he had at mvc

3) 3. Cronin UC- lack of tourney success but always gets them there

4) 10. Dunphy Temple- this is the worst 3 year run of his career..it says alot when that includes a 14-4 season

5) 6. Hurley UCONN- eliter recruiter, elite x and os, elite motivator..i think he will join the ranks of the "elite coaches" in few years

6) 11. Haith Tulsa - can get you into the ncaa once every 4 years, with some occasional nits

7) 4. Gregory USF- his teams are almost never bad, they also are rarely ever elite

8) 5. Dawkins UCF - remove the recency bias (this specific year, with tons of seniors, unique 7'6 player) he has the inability to make elite teams, even when expected.. lots of nit experience

9) 9. Jank SMU- larry browns players but 30-5 regardless is not easy to do..he has no ability to recruit what so ever, but is a quality x and os guy

10) 12. Dunleavy Sr. Tulane- was the nba coach of the year at 1 point, tulane isnt an easy place to win or recruit, its only year 3...im on the fire dunleavy train, but most coach would be in the same situation had they gone to tulane

11) 7. Hardaway Memphis- honestly hasnt shown me anything (..yet)..ironic that its tubby's juco that he developed, that Memphis fans complained about that, that are carrying Memphis .. elite recruiting is still a coaching ability

12) 8. Dooley ECU - i dont think he is bad, but someone has to be last

Interesting you site Hurley's first attribute as an elite recruiter and list him at 5. You put Penny at 11 siting he hasn't shown you anything, even though he just brought in the top player in the country along with Dandridge, Jefferies, Harris, Thomas, Lomax, and Jones. We're also on the the top recruits for next year too.

I tried to find you an emoticon with it blowing it out the other end, but I was unsuccessful.

Thank God none of you have decided to base it on height. Then Gregory would be dead last for sure.

USFFan

(01-22-2019 04:12 PM)usffan Wrote:  Thank God none of you have decided to base it on height. Then Gregory would be dead last for sure.

USFFan

I dunno man.. Mick is pretty not tall

(01-22-2019 04:16 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 04:12 PM)usffan Wrote:  Thank God none of you have decided to base it on height. Then Gregory would be dead last for sure.

USFFan

I dunno man.. Mick is pretty not tall

This is who Mick reminds me of.

(01-22-2019 03:24 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  let it be noted that Mick Cronin has a higher career winning percentage than kelvin Sampson. Mick has won 68% of his games. kelvin has won 65%

Let it also be noted that Kelvin Sampson didn't reach his first sweet 16 until he was in his 16th year as a head coach. He didn't have elite success until his 19th and 20th year as a head coach. This is Mick's 16th year as a head coach. And if you compare Mick Cronin's first 16 years to Kelvin Sampson's, I'll take Mick all damn day. Mick has a sweet 16, the same as Sampson at that point, And yet Mick also has won 68% of his games, which is much better than Sampson and Mick has appeared in 10 NCAA tourney's compared to just 6 for Kelvin Sampson in that same time period. Mick took a mid major to 2 NCAA tourney games as well, something Sampson never did at the mid major level.

So while yes, you can say Kelvin Sampson has a final four and an elite 8 appearance, you have to also say it took him 19 seasons as a coach to accomplish it. Were nearing the end of Kelvin Sampsons career, and yet Mick is one of the winningest coaches in the country under 50 and still has plenty of more coaching to do.

So if Kelvin Sampson career arch can tell UC fans something... its that you don't have to be great right away to accomplish our goals of another final four. Mick has 3.5 seasons left before he reaches the point where Kelvin Sampson had ultimate success.


And if Kelvin Sampson is called a great coach, then Mick has plenty of time to be one as well and is on a trajectory of being better than Sampson.

if you are accounting for the phone call situations off the court situation, i can understand taking mick

if we are talking purely what happens on the basketball court.. it not even close...Sampson all the way

cronin has a higher win percentage because he has stayed at the same program (just kept his system going)..the 1st years of any rebuild are always tough (Cronin was bad his first few years as well)...it wouldn't have taken Sampson 16 years to reach an elite 8, if 14 of it was at Cincinnati (instead of Montana tech and wazzu)

Sampson built up from scratch 3 different programs (5 different jobs)
Sampson took over 3 bad programs and made them great (MTU, WSU, UH) (note Oklahoma wasn't "bad" before he came, a regular NIT team before his arrival, but he made them drastically better on arrival)....

cronin literally took over a great job, made them bad for 4 years,almost got fired at one point, then made them better ..that "better" wasnt as good as when he first took the job
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ing-at-uc/


cronin was coach at murray state, but they had been to 2 recent tourneys before cronin arrived, it wasnt a build up..cronin has never had to take over a bad program...

IMO remove records and accomplishments aside, i wouldnt want mick as my coach...he doesnt teach offense ..and his team has "plateaued" uc has been on the same level for years now. with almost no indication of getting better or anything changing ..he found a formula that works and just sticking to it..

something to note of sampson teams is they gradual gets better as time goes on. sampson has already caught up to cronin in aac play with all indications pointing to better seasons for Houston as we caught up with juco and playing at TSU..which wont be the case going forward

also Sampson is 8 years younger than coach k...lets not act like he's retiring tomorrow, he still has 5 or 6 years left, with his son waiting in the wings

this scatter plot is cronin


this represents sampson everywhere he's been

(01-22-2019 04:09 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Interesting you site Hurley's first attribute as an elite recruiter and list him at 5. You put Penny at 11 siting he hasn't shown you anything, even though he just brought in the top player in the country along with Dandridge, Jefferies, Harris, Thomas, Lomax, and Jones. We're also on the the top recruits for next year too.

I tried to find you an emoticon with it blowing it out the other end, but I was unsuccessful.

i definitely also noted penny was an elite recruiter..but that is a coach ability and why he wasnt last... but recruiting alone doesn't make a coach

(01-22-2019 04:25 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 03:24 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  let it be noted that Mick Cronin has a higher career winning percentage than kelvin Sampson. Mick has won 68% of his games. kelvin has won 65%

Let it also be noted that Kelvin Sampson didn't reach his first sweet 16 until he was in his 16th year as a head coach. He didn't have elite success until his 19th and 20th year as a head coach. This is Mick's 16th year as a head coach. And if you compare Mick Cronin's first 16 years to Kelvin Sampson's, I'll take Mick all damn day. Mick has a sweet 16, the same as Sampson at that point, And yet Mick also has won 68% of his games, which is much better than Sampson and Mick has appeared in 10 NCAA tourney's compared to just 6 for Kelvin Sampson in that same time period. Mick took a mid major to 2 NCAA tourney games as well, something Sampson never did at the mid major level.

So while yes, you can say Kelvin Sampson has a final four and an elite 8 appearance, you have to also say it took him 19 seasons as a coach to accomplish it. Were nearing the end of Kelvin Sampsons career, and yet Mick is one of the winningest coaches in the country under 50 and still has plenty of more coaching to do.

So if Kelvin Sampson career arch can tell UC fans something... its that you don't have to be great right away to accomplish our goals of another final four. Mick has 3.5 seasons left before he reaches the point where Kelvin Sampson had ultimate success.


And if Kelvin Sampson is called a great coach, then Mick has plenty of time to be one as well and is on a trajectory of being better than Sampson.

if you are accounting for the phone call situations off the court situation, i can understand taking mick

if we are talking purely what happens on the basketball court.. it not even close...Sampson all the way

cronin has a higher win percentage because he has stayed at the same program (just kept his system going)..the 1st years of any rebuild are always tough (Cronin was bad his first few years as well)...it wouldn't have taken Sampson 16 years to reach an elite 8, if 14 of it was at Cincinnati (instead of Montana tech and wazzu)

Sampson built up from scratch 3 different programs (5 different jobs)
Sampson took over 3 bad programs and made them great (MTU, WSU, UH) (note Oklahoma wasn't "bad" before he came, a regular NIT team before his arrival, but he made them drastically better on arrival)....

cronin literally took over a great job, made them bad for 4 years before he made almost got fired at one point, them made them better ..at that "better" wasnt as good as when he first took the job
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ing-at-uc/


cronin was coach at murray state, but they had been to 2 recent tourneys before cronin arrived, it wasnt a build up..cronin has never had to take over a bad program...

IMO remove records and accomplishments aside, i wouldnt want mick as my coach...he doesnt teach offense ..and his team has "plateaued" uc has been on the same level for years now. with almost no indication of getting better ..he found a forula that works and just sticking to it..

something to note of sampson teams gradual gets better as time goes on. sampson has already caught up to cronin in aac play with all indications pointing to better seasons for houston as we caught up with juco and playing at TSU

also Sampson is 8 years younger than coach k...lets not act like he's retiring tomorrow, he still has 5 or 6 years left, with his son waiting in the wings

this scatter plot is cronin


this represents sampson everywhere he's been

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! There it is....Coach P, folks.