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MBB at UNT
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #141
RE: MBB at UNT
(01-22-2019 01:30 AM)Wiessman Wrote:  The thing about Drexler and Olajuwon is that for as good as they were for UH in '83, they were nowhere near the players they would become in the NBA (especially Olajuwon, who hadn't even been playing basketball for that long at that point). Even with Drexler out with four fouls and Olajuwon struggling with the altitude, UH still had Young (who was really their main man), Anders, Micheaux, et al., and that should have been enough for them to hold off NC State. As noted in previous posts, UH went against their nature in a big way, and that let NC State back into the game one more time.
NC State was not chopped liver, but that is still the biggest upset in title game history. Those were truly massive coaching blunders by Lewis.

NC State was definitely not chopped liver. I don't have the data handy, but Ted Nance once showed me the recruiting rankings when those players were freshmen, and the NC State recruiting classes were more highly regarded than the UH group. That's largely because nobody knew who Olajuwon was, and IIRC Drexler and Young were also not as well known or highly regarded as perhaps they should have been. Guy's strengths were finding diamonds in the rough and developing them. He had pretty much done the same thing in the 60s with Elvin Hayes and Don Chaney. Guy was never a great game coach--he was constantly making moves that left all of us along stat row looking at each other and wondering what he was doing--but he was a great judge of raw talent and a great developer of that talent in practices. His practices were notoriously physical. His practice routine was once described as, "Lock the gym, don't call any fouls, and the last five guys standing will start on Saturday." Whatever else he did or did not, he built a program that was a heck of a lot of fun to be around.

He also was a pioneer in at least two significant areas--he recruited African-Americans when very few in the South did, and his idea to play (and beat) the Alcindor/Jabbar UCLA team in the Astrodome in the first nationally televised NCAA basketball game brought about the TV bonanza that is NCAA basketball today. I always felt that he deserved to be in the Hall of Fame as a pioneer on those two accomplishments alone, and was extremely happy that he was inducted before he passed away.

Two quick memories:

One, Rice played UH at Hofheinz on a Saturday night that coincided with my Navy Reserve weekend. One of my E-6's had made chief, so we had the CPO initiation ceremony after the Saturday drill. By 6 o'clock, I needed very much to go somewhere and sober up a bit before driving home, so I figured I was OK to make the short drive to Hofheinz and recover there. As I walked into the arena, Ted Nance grabbed me and said, "I'm so glad you're here. Our scoreboard operator can't make it. Can you fill in?" I told him I was really in no shape to do it, and he pretty quickly agreed. About 30 minutes later, he came back over and asked how I was feeling. I said a little better. He said, "Good. Look, I don't have anybody else. I've talked to Guy and Schuler, and they are both okay with you doing it, even in your current condition. Can you do it?" I had never run the scoreboard at Hofheinz before but with some help from the crew I made it. So for those of you who have ever wondered if the scoreboard operator was drunk, I can assure you that on at least one occasion he was. To make it worse, Mel Whitworth was the referee, and typical for Mel, there was a controversy with about 30 seconds left in the game. At least by then I was in good enough shape to handle it.

At the press conference after his final game, in the old SWC post-season basketball tournament, he was asked if he was going to retire to a farm or ranch. He replied, "When I left Arp, Texas, in 1940, I promised myself that I had milked my last cow. So no, I won't be retiring to a farm or ranch."
01-22-2019 07:17 AM
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AnotherOldOwl Offline
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Post: #142
RE: MBB at UNT
(01-21-2019 11:17 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(01-21-2019 08:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-21-2019 08:04 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(01-21-2019 03:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-21-2019 01:14 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  Agree about the press. Wish it was something we would have been more prepared for, but it did take us completely out of rhythm. Think we got a bit passive when we did break it quickly, and as somebody noted earlier, we settled for bleeding the clock instead of trying to ice the game.
When you have a sizable lead, it's hard to lose if you keep scoring and don't foul. We didn't. We scored 7 points in the last 7 minutes, after scoring 68 in the first 33, so our scoring pace was roughly cut in half. And we committed (or were called for) 10 fouls to their 1. And it took every bit of that for us to lose--by 1 point.
This is not the first Rice team that has had those tendencies with a big lead. It was really brought home to me during the Schuler years, when Mike was trying to revive a program that had gone dead under Bob Polk. I was doing basketball stats for Rice, and at the same time doing them for UH. Whenever Rice got a lead, you could see the attitude in the players' faces, "Uh-oh, I hope we can hold on this time." In Mike's defense, I think he was definitely trying to coach this out of them, but it took some time. On the other hand, give UH the same lead and it was like, "Party time, let's show them some Phi Slama Jama." The difference was visible and very remarkable.
So how in the world did they lose to NC State???

Olajuwon was having trouble breathing at altitude, and Drexler got 4 first half fouls. They trailed at halftime, but surged ahead early in the second half. With Olajuwon sitting out a lot, they didn't go the keep scoring and don't foul mode, but tried to slow the game down--what Rice has done with a lead for decades. It worked as well for them as it has worked for Rice.

didn't know/remember the first two. How could a coach let someone like Clyde get 4 fouls in the first half. I do remember and always said they lost slowing down. Only time in my entire life did I ever want to see them win-kinda sad, but as amazing as Lewis at finding talent nuggets, game-coaching just wasn't his forte. Same number as Dallas (wanted them to beat Atlanta in 1980 playoffs, so they come up and get blasted by the Eagles in the 80 NFC championship)

There is one of the ESPN 30 for 30 series titled "Survive and Advance" that is about NC State's postseason run to the championship, including the final against UH. If you subscribed to ESPN+ to get access to Rice sports then you have access to all of the 30 for 30 series. I recommend this one.
01-22-2019 10:28 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #143
RE: MBB at UNT
I was at that 1983 title game in Albuquerque, and the primary reason why Lewis' slowdown strategy was brain dead was N.C. State's lack of depth. They basically had 6 players, while UH could go 10 deep with legitimate players. We all could see that the Wolfpack players were tiring, and I was apoplectic when Lewis gave N.C. State their only opportunity to win the game.
01-22-2019 11:06 AM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #144
MyBB RE: MBB at UNT
(01-20-2019 11:19 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  So Bobby Knight was a saint or Bobby Knight got to be a jerk because his teams won? Sorry still with Scott after the last two games and the non-apology from CUSA after the UTEP game. And how do you think the players feel about seing their coach acting that way? Think they would have prferred having him say we don’t have a winning record and the program has been historically bad so we don’t get to be upset?

Didn't see this game, just the comments here and the videos, which it is hard to see much from. On the one hand, I agree here with Tiki. It seems it's been too long since a non-baseball Rice coach was passionately in support of his players. Especially when they appear to repeatedly get completely screwed game after game after working their butts off to become way better than foreseen in a particular season. It certainly appears Pera is trying very hard and almost succeeding in making wine from water this season. I certainly don't expect him to walk non-chalantly off the field clapping and patting butts because he gets paid win or lose. I like a little fire in a coach. That said, I don't want him physically contacting a ref. But a little Earl Weaver here and there--that's the kind of Moxie that's been sorely missing on South Main for quite a while. And it can bring out some more fans, even if just out of curiosity to see what all the fuss is about.

As to the perpelxing post above about Pera not being on JK and other's good side after less than two season--it begs the question of why the heck did they hire him at all, and so puzzlingly quickly in the first place. Sounds more like the onus might be on JK et al for not getting a guy they wanted in the first place.

Kind of like what Rhoades did with Seth Gearhart that first year, Pera appears to be getting a heck of a lot more out of these players than was anticipated after a weak start. I can understand his frustration in recent events after how hard he appears to have worked for this team and this school inn the face of so much losing and apathy towards it across much of the major athletic teams. Perhaps it seems he deserves a little more leeway after working so much harder than many would have given what was on paper before the season started: i.e. bottom dwelling team foundering through another rebuild with a young team that hardly knows eachother. I hope these Owls finish strong and get a chance to hopefully surprise a top team in our tournament. They have earned respect for working hard to be this competitive. Then again, the refs will probably see that one coming and find a way to try to prevent it a la these past few games.
01-22-2019 09:25 PM
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OwlSquared Offline
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Post: #145
RE: MBB at UNT
Interesting article on non-DI MBB games and CUSA NET rankings.

https://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/m...590ad.html
01-23-2019 03:21 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #146
RE: MBB at UNT
(01-23-2019 03:21 PM)OwlSquared Wrote:  Interesting article on non-DI MBB games and CUSA NET rankings.

https://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/m...590ad.html

Good analysis.

Quote: Only four C-USA members - Marshall, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Charlotte - didn't play non-NCAA Division I foes during the non-league portion of the 2018-19 schedule. The other 10 league members compiled a 26-2 record against lower-division opponents. (FIU, 4-0; North Texas & FAU, 3-0; UAB, LaTech, Rice, UTEP & MidTenn, 2-0; UTSA & USM, 3-1.)

Despite bringing in (ESPN basketball analyst Mark) Adams and implementing his "flex schedule," the league isn't enhanced one little bit because of the 28 non-Division I opponents.

The problem with those 10 schools scheduling 28 games against non-Division I competition is it dragged the entire league's profile down with it. That is not going to help C-USA get more than one berth in the NCAA Tournament. Just look at the current NCAA NET rankings, which replaced the RPI this season. North Texas checks in as the highest-rated C-USA team at an unimpressive No. 85. Old Dominion is next-highest at No. 87 with Marshall third at No. 112. ...

Conference USA needs to propose a rule against member schools playing non-Division I basketball competition. The problem is it never would pass. As everyone can tell from the 2018-19 non-conference schedule, the vote would be 10-4 against excluding non-Division I opponents.
01-23-2019 04:22 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #147
RE: MBB at UNT
(01-23-2019 04:22 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
Quote: Only four C-USA members - Marshall, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Charlotte - didn't play non-NCAA Division I foes during the non-league portion of the 2018-19 schedule.

Man, that's a lot of negatives in one sentence!
01-23-2019 04:31 PM
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Houston Owl Offline
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Post: #148
RE: MBB at UNT
Scheduling is not a simple task...and this article ignores most of the difficulties...

If your RPI is not good, teams don't want to play you because it negatively affects their RPI. If you're better than your RPI, teams don't want to play you because you could beat them, which would negatively affect their RPI.

Also, ignore the economics of the situation...if you're not in a position to pay a "good" team for a home game (or a home and home series), you're stuck with the alternative of playing them on the road....and it's really difficult to win those games...(how many times will UT play a road game at Texas A&M - Corpus Christi???)

Tina has done a great job of scheduling this year with road games against Texas A&M and UCLA and a neutral game against North Carolina. When the road games are returned next year, those become winnable home games against teams with good RPIs...This year...three "good" losses on the "road"...next year...a couple of "really good home games".

The men can get there...it's just a process.
01-23-2019 04:45 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #149
MBB at UNT
(01-23-2019 04:31 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(01-23-2019 04:22 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
Quote: Only four C-USA members - Marshall, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Charlotte - didn't play non-NCAA Division I foes during the non-league portion of the 2018-19 schedule.

Man, that's a lot of negatives in one sentence!


Oh yeah? Well, NOT only did THOSE four teams not play non-D1 during non-league... the other 10 of us DIDN’T NOT play NON-D1 during NON-con.

So let’s see that’s 10x4 + 4x3 = 52 total negatives league-wide.

That should help our Non-NET ranking I believe
01-23-2019 08:34 PM
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