The Big East doesn't help their subsidy much, if any. Only $7 million of their $41 million deficit is football. And going Indy would make that worse.

Good lord Georgetown needs to get out of this mess. The academic prowess of these schools is garbage.

We should have sold our souls to be part of an ACC package.

(01-18-2019 10:36 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn would add five schools that are within DRIVING DISTANCE for Olympic Sports. That number can also increase to six, since Cincinnati is a common city for both leagues.

I know. And it's not like Philly and Balt/DC are really easy road trips given the corridor, so the trips to Center City for Temple (not the most accessible part of town as say Penn, or off a major highway like Villanova), or Annapolis for Navy football is super easy.

Travel becomes nearly featherweight for UConn going to this version of the Big East. No, it's not a fast drive out to Chicago, Milwaukee, and Omaha, but, are people really comparing those three to New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, and Tulsa?

(01-18-2019 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Big East doesn't help their subsidy much, if any. Only $7 million of their $41 million deficit is football. And going Indy would make that worse.

Agreed. Assuming they go INDY, they still would have to fill up a schedule and they aren't enough schools in driving distance. Even if they get UMass, Stony Brook and Army to agree to play them every year, they'll still have to find 7-8 opponents they'll have to travel to. There is only so many slots available in OOC schedule... BC and Syracuse isn't going to agree to a H&H every year... I don't think Temple would agree to it either. Maybe they get BYU, Liberty and New Mexico State to agree but that is still a haul to travel to.

would love to see what the UCONN folks are thinking?

(01-18-2019 09:59 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  So in any case the Atlantic 10 will be getting watered down and lowered in status again. Conference realignment continues to hit the MVC and A10. Has been a real boost for #8 NET and RPI ranked MAC. UConn going to Big East would probably have the AAC backfill affect the A10 somehow too. UMass will be making a move soon somewhere depending on A10 losses (Dayton or St. Louis) and degraded A10 TV contract. UMass doesn't belong in a league full of small private schools.

And there will be an odd-man out with Dayton, St. Louis, UMass.

If Dayton moves to Big East it would be a big blow for the A10 competitively and also geographically for St. Louis so they would be the next to leave A10 because it wouldn't make sense for them to stay. With St. Louis and Dayton gone in this scenario, UMass leaves too.

if Uconn leaves, then AAC backfills with UMass? or the souther AAC teams just decide to abandon outlier of the northeast and thus UMass desire of joining AAC falls.

If St. Louis leaves for Big East, it will degrade A10 and A10 TV contract and Dayton and UMass will be getting more antsy.

Would AAC pick UMass over UAB? UAB fits so well in that league.

(01-18-2019 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-18-2019 09:59 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  So in any case the Atlantic 10 will be getting watered down and lowered in status again. Conference realignment continues to hit the MVC and A10. Has been a real boost for #8 NET and RPI ranked MAC. UConn going to Big East would probably have the AAC backfill affect the A10 somehow too. UMass will be making a move soon somewhere depending on A10 losses (Dayton or St. Louis) and degraded A10 TV contract. UMass doesn't belong in a league full of small private schools.

And there will be an odd-man out with Dayton, St. Louis, UMass.

If Dayton moves to Big East it would be a big blow for the A10 competitively and also geographically for St. Louis so they would be the next to leave A10 because it wouldn't make sense for them to stay. With St. Louis and Dayton gone in this scenario, UMass leaves too.

if Uconn leaves, then AAC backfills with UMass? or the souther AAC teams just decide to abandon outlier of the northeast and thus UMass desire of joining AAC falls.

If St. Louis leaves for Big East, it will degrade A10 and A10 TV contract and Dayton and UMass will be getting more antsy.

Would AAC pick UMass over UAB? UAB fits so well in that league.

I think the AAC would go for neither.

The football issue at UConn is what it is. I just wonder if putting the other sports back into the Big East doesn't cause some sort, any sort of revenue increase into the non-revenue sports beyond the travel cost savings?

And is there a bump for women's hoops?

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...ll-aac-fcs

Weirdly enough, there is definitely someone looking for more football in FCS. Problem is, it's the Patriot...

UConn should go back to the Big East and Indy for Football for the time being.


They could have yearly (or almost yearly) games with:

Army
UMass
Buffalo
NMSU
FCS from NEC or CAA
AAC East Team
ACC team
Big Ten team


Then just find four more.

I just read on Twitter that one big factor that is the result of decline in revenues in undoubtedly due to the shortage of conference tournament credits that UConn now experiences. When the BE/AAC split, the Big East got to keep its tournament shares as part of the divorce, while the AAC got to keep the left-behind tournament credits from Louisville/Syracuse/Pittsburgh/WVU/Notre Dame. Since they are in six-year cycles, that would mean that the 2011 credits concluded last year, with 2012's ending this year. The AAC, aside from UConn's run in 2014, has not had a single team advance to the second weekend - which means there is a dramatic shortage of annual credit allowances that UConn once counted on receiving from men's basketball. Next year, the 2014 credits will roll away.

Essentially, the AAC's tournament credits are being vastly elevated because they are receiving Syracuse's and Louisville's tournament credits from before they left the Big East. Those numbers are in-line to take quite a dip in the coming years.

(01-18-2019 12:02 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I just read on Twitter that one big factor that is the result of decline in revenues in undoubtedly due to the shortage of conference tournament credits that UConn now experiences. When the BE/AAC split, the Big East got to keep its tournament shares as part of the divorce, while the AAC got to keep the left-behind tournament credits from Louisville/Syracuse/Pittsburgh/WVU/Notre Dame. Since they are in six-year cycles, that would mean that the 2011 credits concluded last year, with 2012's ending this year. The AAC, aside from UConn's run in 2014, has not had a single team advance to the second weekend - which means there is a dramatic shortage of annual credit allowances that UConn once counted on receiving from men's basketball. Next year, the 2014 credits will roll away.

Essentially, the AAC's tournament credits are being vastly elevated because they are receiving Syracuse's and Louisville's tournament credits from before they left the Big East. Those numbers are in-line to take quite a dip in the coming years.

And, didn't UConn, Cincinnati, and USF get to collect all the revenue from pre-AAC tournament credits and exit fees?

An out-of-the box idea -
Big East adds UConn and Cincinnati (not sure Xavier would approve...?) and then sponsors FBS football - by inviting Army, Navy, BYU, and UMass for football only. May be also invite Air Force, if they can find a home for Olympic sports, such as the Big Sky or WAC...or even Summit or stay in MWC...

20-team schedule for Big East basketball, with UConn and Cincinnati added.
Double round-robin with everyone in your region (East-West) and 4 out of the 6 in the opposite region; just 1 game against 2 of the teams in the opposite region.
For instance, Villanova plays home-away with Providence, Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, and UConn (10 games). Then, home-away with Marquette, Xavier, DePaul, and Butler (8 games). Only home OR away against Creighton and Cincinnati (2 games).

5-6 game football conference schedule. Room for regional and national schedules, perhaps with a P5 OOC scheduling requirement.
At worst, bowl affiliations with the Military and Armed Forces bowls against P5 opponents. Perhaps add a game in the East or Texas (Cure or Frisco?) against the AAC and a game in the West (Hawaii?) against the MWC.

(01-18-2019 12:02 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I just read on Twitter that one big factor that is the result of decline in revenues in undoubtedly due to the shortage of conference tournament credits that UConn now experiences. When the BE/AAC split, the Big East got to keep its tournament shares as part of the divorce, while the AAC got to keep the left-behind tournament credits from Louisville/Syracuse/Pittsburgh/WVU/Notre Dame. Since they are in six-year cycles, that would mean that the 2011 credits concluded last year, with 2012's ending this year. The AAC, aside from UConn's run in 2014, has not had a single team advance to the second weekend - which means there is a dramatic shortage of annual credit allowances that UConn once counted on receiving from men's basketball. Next year, the 2014 credits will roll away.

Essentially, the AAC's tournament credits are being vastly elevated because they are receiving Syracuse's and Louisville's tournament credits from before they left the Big East. Those numbers are in-line to take quite a dip in the coming years.

That graph would estimate Syracuse and UL’s shares at 500k per AAC school. 400k per ACC team (12 vs 15)

Big 12 is the highest in per school credit pay. 21.57 M divided 10 ways.

(01-18-2019 12:42 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(01-18-2019 12:02 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I just read on Twitter that one big factor that is the result of decline in revenues in undoubtedly due to the shortage of conference tournament credits that UConn now experiences. When the BE/AAC split, the Big East got to keep its tournament shares as part of the divorce, while the AAC got to keep the left-behind tournament credits from Louisville/Syracuse/Pittsburgh/WVU/Notre Dame. Since they are in six-year cycles, that would mean that the 2011 credits concluded last year, with 2012's ending this year. The AAC, aside from UConn's run in 2014, has not had a single team advance to the second weekend - which means there is a dramatic shortage of annual credit allowances that UConn once counted on receiving from men's basketball. Next year, the 2014 credits will roll away.

Essentially, the AAC's tournament credits are being vastly elevated because they are receiving Syracuse's and Louisville's tournament credits from before they left the Big East. Those numbers are in-line to take quite a dip in the coming years.

And, didn't UConn, Cincinnati, and USF get to collect all the revenue from pre-AAC tournament credits and exit fees?

An out-of-the box idea -
Big East adds UConn and Cincinnati (not sure Xavier would approve...?) and then sponsors FBS football - by inviting Army, Navy, BYU, and UMass for football only. May be also invite Air Force, if they can find a home for Olympic sports, such as the Big Sky or WAC...or even Summit or stay in MWC...

20-team schedule for Big East basketball, with UConn and Cincinnati added.
Double round-robin with everyone in your region (East-West) and 4 out of the 6 in the opposite region; just 1 game against 2 of the teams in the opposite region.
For instance, Villanova plays home-away with Providence, Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, and UConn (10 games). Then, home-away with Marquette, Xavier, DePaul, and Butler (8 games). Only home OR away against Creighton and Cincinnati (2 games).

5-6 game football conference schedule. Room for regional and national schedules, perhaps with a P5 OOC scheduling requirement.
At worst, bowl affiliations with the Military and Armed Forces bowls against P5 opponents. Perhaps add a game in the East or Texas (Cure or Frisco?) against the AAC and a game in the West (Hawaii?) against the MWC.

You need 8 full, football-playing members to be an FBS conference. Although now that I think about it, I'm not sure what disadvantages there are to a conference's having fewer than that.

Interesting that the Big East already caught up to the American. They will blow past them on credits this year.

I was looking at that massive deficit of UConn and Football losing $8.7M last year. Actually the total is far worse, as the category of "not by team" is $17.6M (reported to DoE) compared to $8.9M at Georgetown (FCS) and $8.0M Marquette. This is more or less in line across G5 vs. non-Football schools of similar size and budgeting. Football essentially adds $7-14M (depending upon FBS school) to the category of "not by team" overhead. The source of this is obvious, Football players require expensive facilities other sports do not, they require additional support staff off the field and greater medical and other support. In UConn's case it appears this not classified as Football, but really Football overhead appears to be over $9M, say $9.5M. So the real deficit Football ran is over $18M last last year.

When you consider the school transferred $30M to support Athletics (>$18M or 60% for Football support), and UConn's budget is $82M while Big East Schools are $45M. Football has no chance of ever coming close to breaking even at UConn. But the Athletic Department's focus and investment in it is degrading Basketball, which provides a much larger marketing value for the school and is much closer to reasonable return.

Were I UConn's President I'd drop Football immediately and slash the support staff and shutter the facilities which are driving up the department's athletic budget, try to cut $25M from the budget. I'd give the American the 30 month notice, and work on that time table. My hunch is the American would throw the school out earlier than that by at least a year when they realize they wont get an exit fee, and they would not want to share revenue with an exiting school for an extra year. Going Football Independent would not solve the budget problem, at best it would be revenue neutral.

I doubt Storr's is ready to make that move. Business decisions which are easy for CEOs looking at the data ("product line X is killing us, end it now, we'll focus on product line Y which has better market value") are extremely hard for opaque Universities. So it sort of sits there, the Big East waiting on UConn to pull the trigger, and UConn leadership hoping for a Football budget miracle.

(01-18-2019 01:18 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I doubt Storr's is ready to make that move. Business decisions which are easy for CEOs looking at the data ("product line X is killing us, end it now, we'll focus on product line Y which has better market value") are extremely hard for opaque Universities. So it sort of sits there, the Big East waiting on UConn to pull the trigger, and UConn leadership hoping for a Football budget miracle.

Well, do companies call people out of the blue and ask them to just hand over money because you like them? It's not the same as the company offering you back a product, you buying a product off the shelf, or selling you stock. You are just literally handing the place money just because you like them.

That's how college athletic programs work, though. What it costs to run a program is up against what money it brings in from media, ticket sales, and donations. Donations and merchandise are a tough nut to crack in higher education, because it isn't a simple connection between dollar to budget. You might give to a school with sports in mind and that money will never go toward that, because donations can be quite specific (and often, it's on the person donating to know where it is giving, and on specific advancement programs to ensure their programs are receiving money. The hoodie you buy thinking about hoops, but with no distinct sports reference to it at the bookstore may not be going to the athletic department, either. It's very specific. And college presidents just couldn't look at money or budgets that way, like a CEO would. IMO, they shouldn't try to, either.

(01-18-2019 01:18 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Interesting that the Big East already caught up to the American. They will blow past them on credits this year.

I was looking at that massive deficit of UConn and Football losing $8.7M last year. Actually the total is far worse, as the category of "not by team" is $17.6M (reported to DoE) compared to $8.9M at Georgetown (FCS) and $8.0M Marquette. This is more or less in line across G5 vs. non-Football schools of similar size and budgeting. Football essentially adds $7-14M (depending upon FBS school) to the category of "not by team" overhead. The source of this is obvious, Football players require expensive facilities other sports do not, they require additional support staff off the field and greater medical and other support. In UConn's case it appears this not classified as Football, but really Football overhead appears to be over $9M, say $9.5M. So the real deficit Football ran is over $18M last last year.

When you consider the school transferred $30M to support Athletics (>$18M or 60% for Football support), and UConn's budget is $82M while Big East Schools are $45M. Football has no chance of ever coming close to breaking even at UConn. But the Athletic Department's focus and investment in it is degrading Basketball, which provides a much larger marketing value for the school and is much closer to reasonable return.

Were I UConn's President I'd drop Football immediately and slash the support staff and shutter the facilities which are driving up the department's athletic budget, try to cut $25M from the budget. I'd give the American the 30 month notice, and work on that time table. My hunch is the American would throw the school out earlier than that by at least a year when they realize they wont get an exit fee, and they would not want to share revenue with an exiting school for an extra year. Going Football Independent would not solve the budget problem, at best it would be revenue neutral.

I doubt Storr's is ready to make that move. Business decisions which are easy for CEOs looking at the data ("product line X is killing us, end it now, we'll focus on product line Y which has better market value") are extremely hard for opaque Universities. So it sort of sits there, the Big East waiting on UConn to pull the trigger, and UConn leadership hoping for a Football budget miracle.

I'd argue that the Big East came out on top over the American to start with in 2013, but that's just me. The Big East got a much higher ROI (for not sponsoring football) than the AAC did (which sponsors football). They have had better basketball success, and a treated like a peer to the P5 (Big Ten and Big 12 scheduling relationships). Additionally, our ratings on FS1 have done better than the PAC (so the arguments on ratings doesn't hold water). They also have done so with a marketing campaign of being a #P6, so the schools have just let their on-court success speak for itself.

UConn had to gamble in 2013 when they were left behind. They literally put all of their chips into one basket to try and sustain the damage by being left out of the P5. The Diaco/Ollie tenures certainly did not help, and the lack of winning drove away fan support. However, the situation today presents an ethical dilemma for the school and state moving forward: do they, now, triple-down on their original decision (which has been a failure) in hopes of securing a golden ticket - or do they eventually decide to admit that failure, cut the losses and attempt to bring some semblance of stability to their athletic budget? If it is the former, it goes without saying that the individuals tasked with solving the problem are not current in their roles at the school (and others will be footing the bill of the acquired budget shortfall).

what I think is absoultely LOL funny is how everyone just assumes that the reason why UConn is not good right now is due to the AAC automatically.

Ever think it might be because they had a horrible coach? I mean Hurley already has them with 10 wins- 4 away from last year with a lot of games to go..... And he's got a top 20 recruiting class coming in.....

I'm sorry, but unless Hurley bombs, you can't just say that the AAC is the reason why UConn's basketball program has gone poor.

(01-18-2019 01:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what I think is absoultely LOL funny is how everyone just assumes that the reason why UConn is not good right now is due to the AAC automatically.

Ever think it might be because they had a horrible coach? I mean Hurley already has them with 10 wins- 4 away from last year with a lot of games to go..... And he's got a top 20 recruiting class coming in.....

I'm sorry, but unless Hurley bombs, you can't just say that the AAC is the reason why UConn's basketball program has gone poor.

Yep. UConn was still recruiting well-- heck their classes were on paper the best in the conference. They just having been winning the best few years. A big reason why the lack of revenue is the diminished ticket sales as a result of stinking up the joint. The fans in Connecticut stopped going to the football and basketball games because the teams were bad.