(01-28-2019 02:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Grape King,

Well who else was the Big East Commissioner (obliquely) talking about when he mentioned 11 round robin and expansion?

UConn already plays Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse in the Big East. I look at his comment as a clear message, "you have my number, call when you are ready; you might like the answer." But I think that is all it means. The Big East and UConn talk from time to time, and back channels is where any real discussions go on, not public. You are never going to get anything other than anonymous sources in things like this, until it gets halfway serious, and even then only if your name is Craig Thompson and you cannot help yourself but to say the MWC is talking to Gonzaga. Nobody else ever puts their business in public. So it's leaks, and over and over they point to UConn.

But ask yourself who else could possibly be of interest? Who else would make a big splash? A short list comes to mind: Notre Dame, Syracuse, BC, Gonzaga, UConn. Notre Dame, Syracuse and BC made their affiliation with the ACC because of Football, so they are off the table. Gonzaga is in the wrong time zone. Process of elimination leaves only UConn as bringing enough to not only justify, but to make desirable an 11th school.

Notre Dame is not in because of football though, and I am surprised that the Big East hasn’t had at least back channel discussions with ND, given how they steadfastly refuse to join a conference for football. Truthfully, Notre Dame would make more sense than UConn. But, the ACC has something that the Big East doesn’t have, which could be why BE- ND discussions have been non-existent: their own tv network. If the BE had one of those, maybe Notre Dame might contemplate a return.

(01-28-2019 11:50 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 02:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Grape King,

Well who else was the Big East Commissioner (obliquely) talking about when he mentioned 11 round robin and expansion?

UConn already plays Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse in the Big East. I look at his comment as a clear message, "you have my number, call when you are ready; you might like the answer." But I think that is all it means. The Big East and UConn talk from time to time, and back channels is where any real discussions go on, not public. You are never going to get anything other than anonymous sources in things like this, until it gets halfway serious, and even then only if your name is Craig Thompson and you cannot help yourself but to say the MWC is talking to Gonzaga. Nobody else ever puts their business in public. So it's leaks, and over and over they point to UConn.

But ask yourself who else could possibly be of interest? Who else would make a big splash? A short list comes to mind: Notre Dame, Syracuse, BC, Gonzaga, UConn. Notre Dame, Syracuse and BC made their affiliation with the ACC because of Football, so they are off the table. Gonzaga is in the wrong time zone. Process of elimination leaves only UConn as bringing enough to not only justify, but to make desirable an 11th school.

Notre Dame is not in because of football though, and I am surprised that the Big East hasn’t had at least back channel discussions with ND, given how they steadfastly refuse to join a conference for football. Truthfully, Notre Dame would make more sense than UConn. But, the ACC has something that the Big East doesn’t have, which could be why BE- ND discussions have been non-existent: their own tv network. If the BE had one of those, maybe Notre Dame might contemplate a return.

Notre Dame did what they did with basketball due to football. They had to have that to have access to bowl games when they don't make the CFP/NY6 games. Otherwise all other bowl games get taken by conferences and ND would have to select from scraps. Which obviously isn't good.

(01-28-2019 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 11:50 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 02:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Grape King,

Well who else was the Big East Commissioner (obliquely) talking about when he mentioned 11 round robin and expansion?

UConn already plays Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse in the Big East. I look at his comment as a clear message, "you have my number, call when you are ready; you might like the answer." But I think that is all it means. The Big East and UConn talk from time to time, and back channels is where any real discussions go on, not public. You are never going to get anything other than anonymous sources in things like this, until it gets halfway serious, and even then only if your name is Craig Thompson and you cannot help yourself but to say the MWC is talking to Gonzaga. Nobody else ever puts their business in public. So it's leaks, and over and over they point to UConn.

But ask yourself who else could possibly be of interest? Who else would make a big splash? A short list comes to mind: Notre Dame, Syracuse, BC, Gonzaga, UConn. Notre Dame, Syracuse and BC made their affiliation with the ACC because of Football, so they are off the table. Gonzaga is in the wrong time zone. Process of elimination leaves only UConn as bringing enough to not only justify, but to make desirable an 11th school.

Notre Dame is not in because of football though, and I am surprised that the Big East hasn’t had at least back channel discussions with ND, given how they steadfastly refuse to join a conference for football. Truthfully, Notre Dame would make more sense than UConn. But, the ACC has something that the Big East doesn’t have, which could be why BE- ND discussions have been non-existent: their own tv network. If the BE had one of those, maybe Notre Dame might contemplate a return.

Notre Dame did what they did with basketball due to football. They had to have that to have access to bowl games when they don't make the CFP/NY6 games. Otherwise all other bowl games get taken by conferences and ND would have to select from scraps. Which obviously isn't good.

Ironically enough, although ND is a Catholic school, ND shares very little in common (in 2019) with the current membership of the Big East. They wish to be associated with, at least for non-football, the elite privates of the ACC (Duke, Miami, Syracuse, Boston College, Wake Forest) and elite public schools along the East coast (UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech). Their affiliation with the ACC makes too much sense for them to consider other alternatives. Additionally, if ND were to ever join a conference fully with football (will never happen), contractually, it will be the ACC. Notre Dame views itself as elite academic/athletic national university, and rightfully so. A membership in the Big East doesn't really align with that.

As a Marquette fan, it is a shame that our series with ND ended when the Big East reorganized. Dating back to the McGuire/Phelps days, their matchups were really big in the Midwest (along with Meyer at DePaul).

(01-28-2019 12:37 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 11:50 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 02:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Grape King,

Well who else was the Big East Commissioner (obliquely) talking about when he mentioned 11 round robin and expansion?

UConn already plays Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse in the Big East. I look at his comment as a clear message, "you have my number, call when you are ready; you might like the answer." But I think that is all it means. The Big East and UConn talk from time to time, and back channels is where any real discussions go on, not public. You are never going to get anything other than anonymous sources in things like this, until it gets halfway serious, and even then only if your name is Craig Thompson and you cannot help yourself but to say the MWC is talking to Gonzaga. Nobody else ever puts their business in public. So it's leaks, and over and over they point to UConn.

But ask yourself who else could possibly be of interest? Who else would make a big splash? A short list comes to mind: Notre Dame, Syracuse, BC, Gonzaga, UConn. Notre Dame, Syracuse and BC made their affiliation with the ACC because of Football, so they are off the table. Gonzaga is in the wrong time zone. Process of elimination leaves only UConn as bringing enough to not only justify, but to make desirable an 11th school.

Notre Dame is not in because of football though, and I am surprised that the Big East hasn’t had at least back channel discussions with ND, given how they steadfastly refuse to join a conference for football. Truthfully, Notre Dame would make more sense than UConn. But, the ACC has something that the Big East doesn’t have, which could be why BE- ND discussions have been non-existent: their own tv network. If the BE had one of those, maybe Notre Dame might contemplate a return.

Notre Dame did what they did with basketball due to football. They had to have that to have access to bowl games when they don't make the CFP/NY6 games. Otherwise all other bowl games get taken by conferences and ND would have to select from scraps. Which obviously isn't good.

Ironically enough, although ND is a Catholic school, ND shares very little in common (in 2019) with the current membership of the Big East. They wish to be associated with, at least for non-football, the elite privates of the ACC (Duke, Miami, Syracuse, Boston College, Wake Forest) and elite public schools along the East coast (UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech). Their affiliation with the ACC makes too much sense for them to consider other alternatives. Additionally, if ND were to ever join a conference fully with football (will never happen), contractually, it will be the ACC. Notre Dame views itself as elite academic/athletic national university, and rightfully so. A membership in the Big East doesn't really align with that.

As a Marquette fan, it is a shame that our series with ND ended when the Big East reorganized. Dating back to the McGuire/Phelps days, their matchups were really big in the Midwest (along with Meyer at DePaul).

There's still a lot of similarity in the institutional profiles of ND and the current Big East but you hit the nail on the head--ND would rather be associated with the schools, public and private, in the ACC. Pitt, UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT are all AAU and the private schools you called out are all very well respected.

ND probably views the BE as too parochial for them.

(01-28-2019 02:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Grape King,

Well who else was the Big East Commissioner (obliquely) talking about when he mentioned 11 round robin and expansion?

UConn already plays Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse in the Big East. I look at his comment as a clear message, "you have my number, call when you are ready; you might like the answer." But I think that is all it means. The Big East and UConn talk from time to time, and back channels is where any real discussions go on, not public. You are never going to get anything other than anonymous sources in things like this, until it gets halfway serious, and even then only if your name is Craig Thompson and you cannot help yourself but to say the MWC is talking to Gonzaga. Nobody else ever puts their business in public. So it's leaks, and over and over they point to UConn.

But ask yourself who else could possibly be of interest? Who else would make a big splash? A short list comes to mind: Notre Dame, Syracuse, BC, Gonzaga, UConn. Notre Dame, Syracuse and BC made their affiliation with the ACC because of Football, so they are off the table. Gonzaga is in the wrong time zone. Process of elimination leaves only UConn as bringing enough to not only justify, but to make desirable an 11th school.

We can discount the A-10 group of schools mentioned, as just not big splash marquee candidates. Nothing wrong with Richmond (very selective school, huge financial strength), VCU (excellent research institution, although selectivity and undergrad rating are not great), Dayton (good fan base, academics middle of the pack in the Big East), Saint Louis (selective school) and Davidson (Stanford/Duke level selectivity; but a bit of a boutique choice). But nobody thinks any of these are more than a complimentary school, a "12th" if you will.

There really isn't another candidate. It's UConn or nobody for the Big East.

Yup, this is all speculation/fan fiction. There's not a single reason for the Big East to expect UConn to even be available. Even if they did want UConn, they know full well they're not getting them, and they're sure as hell not making announcements about possible expansion with UConn in mind. None of this makes any sense at all. UConn doesn't fit the profile and has no intention of dropping football to independence or FCS.

(01-28-2019 06:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-27-2019 08:54 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  And why would UConn want to play with a bunch of small catholic schools, many of which they have no historical or geographic ties to? It doesn't make an ounce of sense.

And here I thought being a founding member meant something...

UConn isn't a founding member of the Big East because they've never been in the Big East. This is a different conference. What do you think UConn wants with a conference that has as many midwestern teams as northeast teams? The Big East built its success on culture and has cultivated a strong identity, it's not going to want a big public school just because they were in an old conference with some of their current members.

I like a good realignment fan fiction as much as the next guy, but this UConn to the Big East nonsense is as unlikely as it is beaten.

I'm not sure what Saint Louis is adding to the Big East. They aren't perennial contenders and haven't made the tournament since 2014.

I like the addition of Dayton and considering they've performed well over the past 10-15 years or so and even have a recent Elite 8 appearance & nearly 13,000+ every home game. Unless it's UCONN, Gonzaga, or a Dayton invite I see not much value from these other schools.

(01-28-2019 11:50 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 02:46 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Grape King,

Well who else was the Big East Commissioner (obliquely) talking about when he mentioned 11 round robin and expansion?

UConn already plays Field Hockey and Women's Lacrosse in the Big East. I look at his comment as a clear message, "you have my number, call when you are ready; you might like the answer." But I think that is all it means. The Big East and UConn talk from time to time, and back channels is where any real discussions go on, not public. You are never going to get anything other than anonymous sources in things like this, until it gets halfway serious, and even then only if your name is Craig Thompson and you cannot help yourself but to say the MWC is talking to Gonzaga. Nobody else ever puts their business in public. So it's leaks, and over and over they point to UConn.

But ask yourself who else could possibly be of interest? Who else would make a big splash? A short list comes to mind: Notre Dame, Syracuse, BC, Gonzaga, UConn. Notre Dame, Syracuse and BC made their affiliation with the ACC because of Football, so they are off the table. Gonzaga is in the wrong time zone. Process of elimination leaves only UConn as bringing enough to not only justify, but to make desirable an 11th school.

Notre Dame is not in because of football though, and I am surprised that the Big East hasn’t had at least back channel discussions with ND, given how they steadfastly refuse to join a conference for football. Truthfully, Notre Dame would make more sense than UConn. But, the ACC has something that the Big East doesn’t have, which could be why BE- ND discussions have been non-existent: their own tv network. If the BE had one of those, maybe Notre Dame might contemplate a return.

No, the ACC Network had/has nothing to do with ND/ACC instead of the Big East.

That is just icing on the cake for ND. Getting a full share of ACC Network profits without joining for football is a nice bonus, but not the reason it joined or remains in the ACC.

It was the ability to affiliate with a P5 conference, have late season scheduling issues solved by ACC games and access to the ACC minor bowl bids, along with great basketball, baseball, lacrosse, soccer, etc...

ND does like the affiliation with the schools in the ACC, as mentioned above.

The fact that the ACC stretches from Boston to Miami along the Eastern Seaboard and that ND would be playing football games in the Southeast recruiting region were also important factors.

This way, ND gets a lot of football benefits from the ACC without having to actually join in football, plus a great home for 24 of ND's other sports.

(Hockey was in Hockey East for a while, now is in the Big Ten)

All for the "cost" of playing five ACC opponents a season (as opposed to previous annual games with Big Ten and Big East opponents).

The Big East could not/cannot offer most of these things to ND.

Notre Dame in Hockey East was just disgusting

(01-29-2019 02:50 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  Notre Dame in Hockey East was just disgusting

Lol...ok.

(01-28-2019 11:32 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 06:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-27-2019 08:54 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  And why would UConn want to play with a bunch of small catholic schools, many of which they have no historical or geographic ties to? It doesn't make an ounce of sense.

And here I thought being a founding member meant something...

UConn isn't a founding member of the Big East because they've never been in the Big East. This is a different conference. What do you think UConn wants with a conference that has as many midwestern teams as northeast teams? The Big East built its success on culture and has cultivated a strong identity, it's not going to want a big public school just because they were in an old conference with some of their current members.

I like a good realignment fan fiction as much as the next guy, but this UConn to the Big East nonsense is as unlikely as it is beaten.

UConn shared a conference with half the current Big East for 30 years and with 2 more for another 10. Thats just basic knowledge and yes, they were a founding member of the big east.

(01-29-2019 07:55 AM)TerryD Wrote:  All for the "cost" of playing five ACC opponents a season (as opposed to previous annual games with Big Ten and Big East opponents).

Note that the net cost of the bowl game access & an appealing conference play in for most of its other sports is effectively one ACC game a year, because a four game a year scheduling pact on its own would be a net plus to Notre Dame.

1 thing that I think will be interesting would be if the round robin 10 team setup starts costing the league bids if the schools start looking at things a bit differently. I mean so far the setup has worked great and had no years where even 4th place team finished at 9-9. This year looks very different though- top 2 teams already have 14 wins and haven't played each other and bottom 3 teams have 9 wins already. So that sum is already 23- with 1/2 the schedule to go. The most that combination has ever been is 43. Teams 3-7 getting squeezed both directions. If this started happening more often, the league would have to really think about things.

(01-28-2019 11:32 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  I like a good realignment fan fiction as much as the next guy, but this UConn to the Big East nonsense is as unlikely as it is beaten.

I agree it is highly unlikely, but you're wrong about the reason - the new Big East would gladly take UConn back if they wanted to come.

(01-28-2019 09:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There's still a lot of similarity in the institutional profiles of ND and the current Big East but you hit the nail on the head--ND would rather be associated with the schools, public and private, in the ACC. Pitt, UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT are all AAU and the private schools you called out are all very well respected.

ND probably views the BE as too parochial for them.

No, it's recruiting. BC, Syracuse and Pitt are in the ACC, which are their old big time Big East opponents. But importantly the Atlantic Coast is where the best performing kids (besides California and Washington reside). It's why the B1G wanted Rutgers and Maryland, to solidify access to the DMV. The ACC does the same for Notre Dame, allowing them to play Florida, Virginia and Carolina schools as well as Georgia Tech. From a recruiting standpoint that offers far more than the new Big East.

But Football played a big role. Notre Dame as an Independent needs to fill 8 October and November slots. They have 3 covered with Navy, and the Pac-12 agreements with Stanford and USC (early to mid October in South Bend, late November in California). The ACC gave them 5 more games, usually 4 in those difficult to schedule late season (plenty of schools want to play Notre Dame, but they in September before SEC, B1G or B12 league play). The new Big East didn't solve that problem, no football, and the American didn't help either since the schools were neither similar Catholic mission nor of the power pedigree. So it's wrong to say Football was not the reason. It was a major reason, and so was recruiting the Atlantic Coastline.

(01-29-2019 09:28 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  UConn shared a conference with half the current Big East for 30 years and with 2 more for another 10. That's just basic knowledge and yes, they were a founding member of the Big East.

This is why UConn makes sense. The other old members are in the ACC now (BC, Syracuse, Pitt ... also Miami and ND)

But UConn football is the problem. Well that and horrible "leadership" from Susan Herbst -- she really has let the University go adrift, and not just in athletics.

(01-30-2019 02:30 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  No, it's recruiting.

Notre Dame moved their arrangement from the Big East to the ACC because the arrangement with the Big East fell apart when the Big East fell apart.

It's basically the same deal they had with the Big East - access to a conference bowl structure and a power-level parking space for their other teams - the only difference is the ACC extracted a higher price in terms of games to be played as well as the commitment to only join the ACC if they join a conference over the next 15 years.

And the former *is* a price, as Notre Dame never has had trouble with scheduling or recruiting, they do both nationally and always have. They don't need all of those ACC games on their schedule, and not all of them are beneficial.