https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/ut/20...0190115192

MAC coaches rank Toledo as having the highest expectations in the league. even when we've had good exciting teams it often seems as if the fans are still in wait and see mode. expectations are not too low. we are just hungry to get back to the dance and it's been too long for what is generally a good program.

Well written article. The point is clearly made that there are a number of MAC programs that have gotten it done since UT. Not a terrible performance by the Rockets... we do deserve more with all things we have. We did not run over an 0-3 team last night.

Best facilities and recruiting base according to anonymous coaches' poll. Second best overall considering everything. So it may be the top men's basketball job in the MAC. Coach K wanted to divert questions about why he's never been to the NCAA's when others do more with much less.

This is the premier job in the MAC - considering fan base/facilities/resources...
Probably not to too much to ask for a league title at least once in a decade...

frankly all of these could be said about Rockets football, only two MACC in last 14 seasons is under performing and disappointing to fans

(01-17-2019 12:58 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Best facilities and recruiting base according to anonymous coaches' poll. Second best overall considering everything. So it may be the top men's basketball job in the MAC. Coach K wanted to divert questions about why he's never been to the NCAA's when others do more with much less.

I don't think he was diverting the questions. He was pointing out that you can judge the success of a mid major program in a one bid league in multiple ways. You can judge the success based on consistent regular season winning, academics, and good character of the players or you can judge the success based on the results of a 3 day tournament in March. Of course, it is reasonable to expect a school that has the advantages and resources of Toledo to win that 3 day tournament in March every so often.

Meanwhile, John Groce's overall MAC regular season record is under .500 (including his record at Akron so far), but had 2 NCAA appearances at Ohio including a Sweet 16 appearance. If you're judging success, a losing regular season record vs. 2 NCAA appearances, I guess the NCAA appearances win out, right?

(01-17-2019 04:37 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 12:58 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Best facilities and recruiting base according to anonymous coaches' poll. Second best overall considering everything. So it may be the top men's basketball job in the MAC. Coach K wanted to divert questions about why he's never been to the NCAA's when others do more with much less.

I don't think he was diverting the questions. He was pointing out that you can judge the success of a mid major program in a one bid league in multiple ways. You can judge the success based on consistent regular season winning, academics, and good character of the players or you can judge the success based on the results of a 3 day tournament in March. Of course, it is reasonable to expect a school that has the advantages and resources of Toledo to win that 3 day tournament in March every so often.

Meanwhile, John Groce's overall MAC regular season record is under .500 (including his record at Akron so far), but had 2 NCAA appearances at Ohio including a Sweet 16 appearance. If you're judging success, a losing regular season record vs. 2 NCAA appearances, I guess the NCAA appearances win out, right?

I would take 2 NCAA appearances, including a "Sweet 16" run, in exchange for a sub .500 overall record...because then I'd look for the "next" coach if the losing records continued for back-to-back-to-back seasons.

I don't deny that it is unfortunate or even sad...but few in Toledo will remember TK if he ends his tenure here without ever getting to the "Big Dance". Many people who I talk to don't remember Jay Eck or Larry Gipson. People remember Nichols, and they (for various reasons) remember Stan. TK does have a chance to cement his legacy here, but I do think the clock is slowly starting to tick.

I think we should expect more. Other small schools do it, even if only once in a while.

Coach K runs a quality program - that's good - and overall they have been successful as well. Just not up to our "hopes."

I see this as another tease of a year; we smell the aroma of something special, only to find out it didn't taste as good as it smelled.

I will be surprised if Buffalo loses 2 MAC games this year. I think they will win the tourney as well. If Toledo gets to Cleveland (I would hope, but we ain't there yet), they could lose the first game to a BS, or go as far as the final against Buffalo, if that's how it turns out.

And the MAC will be a one team entry once again.

Nick got 3 trips in 22 seasons. His first in year#2. The next 12 years later.

the conference tourney is a funny thing. it creates excitement but it can penalize the best team. remember that if the MAC champ got the NCAA autobid UT would have gone to the tourney twice in the past 12-13 years. the closest we came was with a mediocre team making a weird run in the 90s at the end of the eck tenure and losing by 1 to an EMU team that went to the sweet 16. we also has a pretty good team under stan come close against a good kent st team in the tourney final. i still think his decision to call off the full court press in the final 2 minutes cost us an ncaa tourney spot that season. kent was winning all game and stan went to the press with about 5 minutes to go and we rallied back and had kent on the ropes, but once we tied it he went back to playing them straight up and kent regained their composure and outplayed us in the final minute or so to get the win.

(01-18-2019 04:06 AM)pono Wrote:  the conference tourney is a funny thing. it creates excitement but it can penalize the best team. remember that if the MAC champ got the NCAA autobid UT would have gone to the tourney twice in the past 12-13 years. the closest we came was with a mediocre team making a weird run in the 90s at the end of the eck tenure and losing by 1 to an EMU team that went to the sweet 16. we also has a pretty good team under stan come close against a good kent st team in the tourney final. i still think his decision to call off the full court press in the final 2 minutes cost us an ncaa tourney spot that season. kent was winning all game and stan went to the press with about 5 minutes to go and we rallied back and had kent on the ropes, but once we tied it he went back to playing them straight up and kent regained their composure and outplayed us in the final minute or so to get the win.

I recall the EMU final as the only game I ever had mixed feelings about a Rocket win, knowing they couldn’t fire Eck if we went to the NCAA but desperately wanting to go to the NCAAs.

(01-17-2019 01:07 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  frankly all of these could be said about Rockets football, only two MACC in last 14 seasons is under performing and disappointing to fans

Agree PaulJ
The "almost everyone gets a bowl game" reality in FB tends to make a 7-6 season OK while the mens hoops have the Dance seem the only acceptable end point for MBB.
Probably could be said for FB that we deserve better as well.

(01-18-2019 04:06 AM)pono Wrote:  the conference tourney is a funny thing. it creates excitement but it can penalize the best team. remember that if the MAC champ got the NCAA autobid UT would have gone to the tourney twice in the past 12-13 years. the closest we came was with a mediocre team making a weird run in the 90s at the end of the eck tenure and losing by 1 to an EMU team that went to the sweet 16. we also has a pretty good team under stan come close against a good kent st team in the tourney final. i still think his decision to call off the full court press in the final 2 minutes cost us an ncaa tourney spot that season. kent was winning all game and stan went to the press with about 5 minutes to go and we rallied back and had kent on the ropes, but once we tied it he went back to playing them straight up and kent regained their composure and outplayed us in the final minute or so to get the win.

If I remember correctly, Toledo went to the Finals against Earl Boykins and Derrick Dial's EMU team in Larry Gipson's last game as coach in 1996. Gipson had announced before the Tournament that he would be resigning after the season and the team led by Craig Thames and Casey Shaw went out and beat WMU on the road in the first round and then upset Miami with Wally Szezerbiek and Devin Davis in the Semi Finals. The Rockets were also helped by the fact that the Tournament Semi Finals and Final were held that season at The Seagate Convention Center.