The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Congrats to Julian Edelman. He moved into second all time in playoff receptions today. He currently has 98 but likely won't have much of a chance at first as Jerry Rice holds the record at 151. It's a real shame he missed last year's playoff run otherwise he would likely be 20ish receptions closer.

He also moved into 7th in playoff receiving yards today and is only 140 back of second. Rice has a 930 yard cushion on second so again probably second is as good as he can get.

Lastly, today marked his 16 career playoff game so he's essentially played one extra full season. He stands at 98 catches, 1236 yards from scrimage. Those numbers look even more impressive when you consider his first 5 playoff games he didn't have a big role and only amassed 9 catches and 85 yards from scrimage.

It was great to see him go off today because he's weirdly been getting a lot of flack from the media lately despite having a season on par which what he's always done. A few weeks ago I heard an ESPN analyst say he wasn't an NFL caliber pass catcher anymore then last week one said he wouldn't start for the Cleveland Browns. On a recent podcast Boston sports fanatic Bill Simmons insinuated Danny Amendola (who has never had a 700 yard receiving season) is better than him. The lack of appreciation he gets is truly incredible.

(01-13-2019 08:38 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Congrats to Julian Edelman. He moved into second all time in playoff receptions today. He currently has 98 but likely won't have much of a chance at first as Jerry Rice holds the record at 151. It's a real shame he missed last year's playoff run otherwise he would likely be 20ish receptions closer.

He also moved into 7th in playoff receiving yards today and is only 140 back of second. Rice has a 930 yard cushion on second so again probably second is as good as he can get.

Lastly, today marked his 16 career playoff game so he's essentially played one extra full season. He stands at 98 catches, 1236 yards from scrimage. Those numbers look even more impressive when you consider his first 5 playoff games he didn't have a big role and only amassed 9 catches and 85 yards from scrimage.

It was great to see him go off today because he's weirdly been getting a lot of flack from the media lately despite having a season on par which what he's always done. A few weeks ago I heard an ESPN analyst say he wasn't an NFL caliber pass catcher anymore then last week one said he wouldn't start for the Cleveland Browns. On a recent podcast Boston sports fanatic Bill Simmons insinuated Danny Amendola (who has never had a 700 yard receiving season) is better than him. The lack of appreciation he gets is truly incredible.

Agree on all of your points - it was great to see that he still has that chemistry with Brady. I watched him all season and he has had some difficulty getting separation from D backs but so have other quality receivers as the NFL defenses adjust. Finally I was happy to see Gates get a touchdown near the end of the game - I wished he could of played in a Super Bowl - I don't see him playing next year. I sometimes wonder how things would have played out for the Chargers had they kept Drew Brees - that not a rap on Rivers but Brees is far more mobile in the pocket.

(01-13-2019 08:38 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Congrats to Julian Edelman. He moved into second all time in playoff receptions today. He currently has 98 but likely won't have much of a chance at first as Jerry Rice holds the record at 151. It's a real shame he missed last year's playoff run otherwise he would likely be 20ish receptions closer.

He also moved into 7th in playoff receiving yards today and is only 140 back of second. Rice has a 930 yard cushion on second so again probably second is as good as he can get.

Lastly, today marked his 16 career playoff game so he's essentially played one extra full season. He stands at 98 catches, 1236 yards from scrimage. Those numbers look even more impressive when you consider his first 5 playoff games he didn't have a big role and only amassed 9 catches and 85 yards from scrimage.

It was great to see him go off today because he's weirdly been getting a lot of flack from the media lately despite having a season on par which what he's always done. A few weeks ago I heard an ESPN analyst say he wasn't an NFL caliber pass catcher anymore then last week one said he wouldn't start for the Cleveland Browns. On a recent podcast Boston sports fanatic Bill Simmons insinuated Danny Amendola (who has never had a 700 yard receiving season) is better than him. The lack of appreciation he gets is truly incredible.

That's an oxymoron. Or just a moron.

Edelman is now 8th all time in playoff yards from scrimmage, 4th in playoff receiving yards (a 45 yard super bowl will move him up to second), and 2nd in playoff receptions. I know I mentioned this on here shortly before the 2017 super bowl and got laughed off the site, but he's building an interesting and solid HOF resume. The iconic catch in the 2017 super bowl helps it too. Phill Simms was adamant in the post game that he's a serious HOF candidate.

Good thing they won because that dropped pass turned INT would've made his off season pretty miserable had they lost.

One other note, he also broke the all time playoff punt returns record today. He already held the all time playoff punt return yardage record.

Also good that that one punt missed touching him by a hair. That was just lucky.

anti-zip, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Hall of Fame some day. It isn't as if the football Hall of Fame has an almost impossibly high bar. The bar, though, is higher, in my opinion, than the rock and roll Hall of Fame's!! I don't think he's had a Hall of Fame career, but the selectors haven't tended to be as "picky" as me.

I don't think Edelman has any prayer at the HOF. You don't get the HOF for being in the playoffs year after year and building stats that way. He would have to be one of the top WR in the NFL year after year, which he just isn't. He has been a solid contributor for the GOAT but honestly, nothing more than that.

Issac Bruce is waiting around and some think he's never going to get in. Compare the two.

Career Receptions:
Bruce - 1,024
Edelman - 499

Yards Receiving:
Bruce - 15,208
Edelman - 5,390

Touchdowns:
Bruce - 91
Edelman - 30

(01-21-2019 05:34 AM)axeme Wrote:  Also good that that one punt missed touching him by a hair. That was just lucky.

Yeah - that was almost a bonehead play that lost the game. He was lucky the replay officials spent the time looking at it.

From what I saw, from the one camera, it looked like it touched his left thumb, but you can see his right hand didn't touch it. From the other camera, it looked like his right thumb touched it, but you can definitely see his left hand didn't touch it. Either view by itself wouldn't be enough to overturn.

But for anyone on the returning team to try to field a bouncing punt, you got to know what you're doing, or just leave it alone.

(01-21-2019 08:38 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  I don't think Edelman has any prayer at the HOF. You don't get the HOF for being in the playoffs year after year and building stats that way. He would have to be one of the top WR in the NFL year after year, which he just isn't. He has been a solid contributor for the GOAT but honestly, nothing more than that.

So I realize this will be the argument against Edelman in the HOF, but it's a little disappointing to hear from a Kent fan. I honestly feel Edelman has been one of the most under appreciated players in recent memory. The "You don't get the HOF for being in the playoffs year after year" argument irks the eff out of me every time I hear it because it implies he's just been along for the ride rather than being an integral part of their success.

In the post season he's averaging 6.2 catches per game and 78.4 yards from scrimmage. Gronk gets 5 catches per game and 71.7 yards per game. Welker averaged 7.7 catches and 80 scrimmage yards in the 4 postseasons he played with Brady. However, if you take out his first 5 games (3 seasons) where Edelman didn't have much of a role in the offense, over his last 12 playoff games he's averaging 8 catches per game and 103.9 scrimmage yards per game.

To put this in perspective a bit, here's some of the all time greats in the playoffs:
- Jerry Rice: 5.2 catches per game, 78.9 total yards per game, 29 games
- Michael Irvin: 5.4 catches per game, 65.6 total yards per game, 16 games
- Reggie Wayne: 4.4 catches per game, 59.7 total yards per game, 21 games
- Andre Reed: 4.0 catches per game, 59.8 total yards per game, 21 games
- Edelman: 6.2 catches per game, 78.4 total yards per game, 17 games

So I guess all these guys just built stats by making the playoffs a lot...

He's also averaging 11.9 yards per punt return in the playoffs. That's a pretty big deal for starting field position.

The Isaac Bruce comparison is completely missing the point. Edelman's argument centers around him being an elite postseason receiver, elite punt returner, and an integral part of a dynasty. Bruce's teams only won 1 SB and only advanced past the first round twice and he wasn't a returner. If you want to look solely at regular season receiving numbers, then yes, I agree, Edelman has no chance. I'm certainly not saying he's a lock, but he should be a candidate at the least and has one of the more interesting arguments that I've seen.

Some better comparisons for Edelman are Lynn Swann, Cliff Branch, and Hines Ward. Swann is in the HOF, Ward isn't yet, but is a borderline candidate, and Branch didn't make the HOF but some consider him to be a big snub so he was at least a candidate. They were all key parts of dynasty teams. So let's compare them.

Swann:
Regular Season: 336 receptions, 5534 total yards, 61 punt returns, 12.1 return avg
Post Season: 16 Games, 48 receptions, 924 total yards, 12 punt returns, 7.7 return avg
Superlatives: 4 x Champion, 3 x Pro Bowl, 1 x All Pro, one of the most iconic catches in NFL history

Branch:
Regular Season: 501 receptions, 8755 total yards, only was a returner as a rookie.
Post Season: 22 Games, 73 receptions, 1289 total yards
Superlatives: 3 x Champion, 4 x Pro Bowl, 3 x All Pro

Ward:
Regular Season: 1000 receptions, 12511 total yards, only returned 8 kicks and 1 punt in his career.
Post Season: 18 Games, 88 receptions, 1212 total yards
Superlatives: 2 x Champion, 4 x Pro Bowl, known as a great blocker

Edelman:
Regular Season: 499 receptions, 5754 total yards, 177 punt returns, 11.2 return avg
Post Season: 17 games 105 receptions, 1332 total yards, 37 punt returns, 11.9 return avg
Superlatives: 2 x Champion, one of the most iconic catches in NFL history, hasn't turned 33 yet

It's worth noting that Swann's and Branch's numbers are indicative of the era they played in, but Edelman's regular season numbers will end up well past Swann's numbers at least.

Anti-Zip,

I am not attacking you or JE. Nobody is arguing he hasn't been integral in the NEP playoff success. He has been a significant contributor. But that isn't going to get him a look. Hines Ward's consideration is because of his complete resume, not because of his playoff success. As you noted, Swann and Branch were in a different era and cannot even be used for comparison IMO. Bottom line is JE's numbers are what they are and the complete body of work doesn't even deserve a sniff if Issac Bruce or Hines Ward don't get in.

One thing that probably will not be brought up by most but I think is worth at least considering is how he came into this position.

How many of those elite receivers came in to the league and were immediately put into prominent positions on the offense? How many of them were drafted high as a receiver and put to that job?

Julian did not get that. He had to earn his way onto the team and for a long time he had to play many positions before he even got to attempt to try the receiver spot. Remember he started out only doing special teams and even played defense (seriously who remembers that now!) to help his team win. He did not get to play receiver at first and that does affect his overall stats because he lost time just trying to even get a shot at playing his current position.

I am not saying that he should be in the HoF (though of course I would welcome that for sure) since I find their (the HoF committee) reasoning to not always be the easiest to figure but I do think at times people forget the context of his career.

I want to say one last thing. I would love JE to get into the HOF. James Harrison and Cribbs too. The only Golden Flash headed to Canton is Antonio Gates. IMO - a 1st ballot enshrinement.

(01-21-2019 09:29 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Anti-Zip,

I am not attacking you or JE. Nobody is arguing he hasn't been integral in the NEP playoff success. He has been a significant contributor. But that isn't going to get him a look. Hines Ward's consideration is because of his complete resume, not because of his playoff success. As you noted, Swann and Branch were in a different era and cannot even be used for comparison IMO. Bottom line is JE's numbers are what they are and the complete body of work doesn't even deserve a sniff if Issac Bruce or Hines Ward don't get in.

Didn't think you were and didn't want to come across as attacking you. I think it's a really interesting debate to have. How close do you think he needs to get to Ward's regular season numbers for his playoff numbers to put him on his level? 800 catches 9000 yards is realistic for him to reach.

For what it's worth this Boston sports website discussed this topic recently. While I'm guessing that's very a biased source, I fully agree that him having another special super bowl goes a long way. It's a real shame he missed last year's run because he might have a realistic shot at catching Rice if he had those 3 additional games.

https://www.boston.com/sports/sports-q/2...e#comments

(01-21-2019 09:34 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  The only Golden Flash headed to Canton is Antonio Gates. IMO - a 1st ballot enshrinement.

I just hope someday Jack Lambert gets in...

(01-21-2019 10:25 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 09:34 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  The only Golden Flash headed to Canton is Antonio Gates. IMO - a 1st ballot enshrinement.

I just hope someday Jack Lambert gets in...

Happy to inform you guys that Jack Lambert entered the HOF years ago.

One more stat I'll offer to support Edelman's case. He's currently 6th in playoff history in all-purpose yards. He needs 444 to become the all time leader which is 3 to 4 games at the pace he's on. The top 6 are as follows:

1. Jerry Rice - 2289 yards; 29 games
2. Thurman Thomas - 2124 yards; 21 games
3. Franco Harris - 2060 yards; 19 games
4. Emmitt Smith - 1928 yards; 17 games
5. Marcus Allen - 1877 yards; 16 games
6. Julian Edelman - 1846 yards; 17 games

I understand the other guys didn't accumulate the return yards he has, but his return yards are not insignificant to the actual game. He has a very real chance of winding up on the top of that list by the time he's done.

(01-21-2019 10:42 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 10:25 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 09:34 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  The only Golden Flash headed to Canton is Antonio Gates. IMO - a 1st ballot enshrinement.

I just hope someday Jack Lambert gets in...

Happy to inform you guys that Jack Lambert entered the HOF years ago.

I obviously meant of the current/recently retired group of Flashes that might have hopes (that I listed in that post).

Calm down fellas. He still isn't a HOF'r. Go LAR.