(01-30-2019 11:28 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 11:22 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 10:15 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 09:30 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  I think this is year 3 for KB at VT - correct? (it may be year 2 but from memory think it is year 3).

Given that I would think it would be fair to judge KB along a similar standard as folks judge Louis Rowe.

Bottom line is this Wins/Losses are what matter period and even more importantly conference wins/losses. 0-7 in the ACC and tied for last place is the only stat that really matters. Who cares about the recruits and how good you supposedly recruit if you cannot produce conference wins.

If 3 years is enough for Louis Rowe to show progress and be competitive in the CAA then 3 years is enough for KB to do the same at VT.

Big difference is that KB has a strong history as a head coach from his time at JMU while LR does not. Further, there is a humongous difference in the ACC being the #1 rated WBB conference in the nation while the CAA is currently ranked #18 in MBB. KB has some more winnable games coming up though 5 of their next 7 are on the road...starting with Thursday night at fellow-cellar dweller Pitt. If they can't/don't win at Pitt (9-12/0-7), then they are staring a potential 0-14 ACC record right in the face before they host UVA and Wake to finish the regular season.

Pretty sure Babcock will be giving KB likely 2 more years, though their performance this year I'm sure is raising plenty of doubt.

Women's game and men's game are very different animals. If they weren't you'd see more coaches that were successful jumping from women's to men's basketball and vice-versa. Not saying that a coach couldn't make the jump but having success in one style doesn't mean much for the other. Kind of like saying an Arena league coach would be a great NFL coach, or a CFL guy would do well in the SEC. Different strategies, different kind of athletes, different mindset needed. High School and college football are more suited to the NFL than those other versions of American football are.

Yep. Agree they are different games. Point is though, getting into a race with a bunch of gazelles (ACC WBB) is very different from getting into a race with 1 or 2 horses and 7 or 8 snails (CAA MBB). The timeline for "getting good" in a rebuild is very different as well.

Side note, I still find it interesting that Ike is being given a 5th year. Is that foreshadowing what we will do with Rowe? If not, where is the consistency? A case can be made that Ike has failed harder than Rowe. Of course, again a big difference in revenue generation of the 2 sports as well as investment (UB&TC, for example).

I thought this was Ike's 4th season.....but point taken baseball needs to produce this season by at a minimum making the CAA tournament. Anything less than that and Ike is gone.

I will say this about baseball is that the team has been re-tooled from an all offense approach and asleep at the wheel the last 2-3 years under Spanky (the roster looked like a Valley Hs team....very poor recruiting), to a team much more focused around pitching and defense. Now the offense needs to catch up a little. But the change in team ERA has been pretty impressive under Ike.

Having said that he has to produce more W's this season. I think he needs at least 30 wins this season and no question make the CAA tournament.

(01-30-2019 11:28 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 11:22 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 10:15 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 09:30 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  I think this is year 3 for KB at VT - correct? (it may be year 2 but from memory think it is year 3).

Given that I would think it would be fair to judge KB along a similar standard as folks judge Louis Rowe.

Bottom line is this Wins/Losses are what matter period and even more importantly conference wins/losses. 0-7 in the ACC and tied for last place is the only stat that really matters. Who cares about the recruits and how good you supposedly recruit if you cannot produce conference wins.

If 3 years is enough for Louis Rowe to show progress and be competitive in the CAA then 3 years is enough for KB to do the same at VT.

Big difference is that KB has a strong history as a head coach from his time at JMU while LR does not. Further, there is a humongous difference in the ACC being the #1 rated WBB conference in the nation while the CAA is currently ranked #18 in MBB. KB has some more winnable games coming up though 5 of their next 7 are on the road...starting with Thursday night at fellow-cellar dweller Pitt. If they can't/don't win at Pitt (9-12/0-7), then they are staring a potential 0-14 ACC record right in the face before they host UVA and Wake to finish the regular season.

Pretty sure Babcock will be giving KB likely 2 more years, though their performance this year I'm sure is raising plenty of doubt.

Women's game and men's game are very different animals. If they weren't you'd see more coaches that were successful jumping from women's to men's basketball and vice-versa. Not saying that a coach couldn't make the jump but having success in one style doesn't mean much for the other. Kind of like saying an Arena league coach would be a great NFL coach, or a CFL guy would do well in the SEC. Different strategies, different kind of athletes, different mindset needed. High School and college football are more suited to the NFL than those other versions of American football are.

Yep. Agree they are different games. Point is though, getting into a race with a bunch of gazelles (ACC WBB) is very different from getting into a race with 1 or 2 horses and 7 or 8 snails (CAA MBB). The timeline for "getting good" in a rebuild is very different as well.

Side note, I still find it interesting that Ike is being given a 5th year. Is that foreshadowing what we will do with Rowe? If not, where is the consistency? A case can be made that Ike has failed harder than Rowe. Of course, again a big difference in revenue generation of the 2 sports as well as investment (UB&TC, for example).

Ike demonstrates how JMU holds onto people too long because they are 'good people'. LR has not demonstrated that he should be JMU's head coach beyond March 10 this year (I do think we'll win the Keener game and then lose in the opening round), so if he gets one more year then it is the Ike treatment to me.

For better or worse, JMU doesn't have the Univ Houston mentality of 8-4 isn't good enough to remain our coach.

(01-30-2019 11:35 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  I thought this was Ike's 4th season.....but point taken baseball needs to produce this season by at a minimum making the CAA tournament. Anything less than that and Ike is gone.

Yep. 4th season. My apologies. Last 3 years has seemed like 4. Well, last decade of JMU Baseball has seemed like 50 years for that matter.

(01-30-2019 11:40 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-30-2019 11:35 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  I thought this was Ike's 4th season.....but point taken baseball needs to produce this season by at a minimum making the CAA tournament. Anything less than that and Ike is gone.

Yep. 4th season. My apologies. Last 3 years has seemed like 4. Well, last decade of JMU Baseball has seemed like 50 years for that matter.

And last 20 years of men's bball has seemed like an eternity:)

(01-15-2019 07:59 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:48 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:37 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:22 PM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

ehhh....my drawers are not knotted whatsover.....actually 'free-balling' today for your info.

But I am over KB, take off thy purple shaded glasses (or is it just a KB man-crush) he is simply not getting it done at the top level as a coach. KB is a good coach, but perhaps his level is the mid-major level. Winners win regardless of level and sport they coach.

I think it is a misperception that good coaches can "go anywhere" and win. The dynamics of a winning program are more than that, and part of the reason it is so tough for us to turn around MBB.

Rip Scherer : great coach (at JMU)
Withers : good/decent coach (at JMU)
Houston : amazing coach (at JMU), good/decent (at Citadel), ECU ???
KB : great coach (at JMU)

3 of those 4 have struggled elsewhere, and it wasn't just about the "level" ... schools also play a factor in success, with everything from facilities and fan support to ability to attract talent.

KB could return to JMU and look like a great coach again. Good chance he will succeed at VT, but its a much harder path there, and not just because of the conference. It is hard to pull a team out of the gutter.

There are a lot of coaches who have changed schools and failed. Just look at every VCU basketball coach who left VCU for more money. None of them have yet to replicate the same success elsewhere and to date, all were fired before their first contract expired. Did they all somehow become bad coaches overnight?

There is more to a teams success then just the head coach and his abilities..

It has surprised me how many coaches have not been more successful given move resources. You could list a ton of them. But in just about all cases the coach has been more successful money wise. Shaka salary went from roughly 1 Million to 3 Million.

But every successful top 1A Football and Basketball coach has risen from the lower ranks.

I think the Houston staff will be an upgrade over the prior coaching staff, but it's not a given. Best guess it they will become a top 40-50 program over the next 5 years, perhaps not a whole lot better than his JMU teams.

(01-30-2019 10:46 AM)Madison 91 Forever Wrote:  IMHO Kenny Brooks was the greatest coach ever at JMU -- for any sport.

That's just silly. I like Kenny but he wasn't even the best women's basketball coach.

VT looked pretty good last night...as they should have. It was a nice win. Of course the other team were the co-cellar dwellers until last night's game, but it was a very sound thrashing. Taylor Emery and Dara Mabrey look just fine and that's a start at the program going up. As I've said the ACC is an ugly place to be, and VT is/was a sink. Des[ite their record, I think they look better than they did when he got there.

It looks like getting rid of him is a common theme on a number of their MB threads. They also seem to be pretty upset about his daughter being on a team that she "does not deserve to be on" they are upset that she is on the team and on scholly and really upset that she is getting so much PT. I'm sure a part of it is legit and a part is the coaches kid will always be a lightning rod if things are not going well. They seem to think they lost a good player to Georgia because of his daughter and her PT.

If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

No thank you......That seems like some 'out of the box' thinking that should remain untested. The games are very different even though they are both basketball. If JMU needs to hire a new bball coach, I would prefer to stay away from 'out of the box' experimentation.

Just hire the best men's bball coach possible given your budget.

I doubt Lou is going anywhere this season though.

However the similarities remain.....Lou and KB have each won 3 of there last 5 to get out of the cellar.

(02-21-2019 02:19 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  It looks like getting rid of him is a common theme on a number of their MB threads. They also seem to be pretty upset about his daughter being on a team that she "does not deserve to be on" they are upset that she is on the team and on scholly and really upset that she is getting so much PT. I'm sure a part of it is legit and a part is the coaches kid will always be a lightning rod if things are not going well. They seem to think they lost a good player to Georgia because of his daughter and her PT.

I have no knowledge of VT WBB's players, their stats, their talents or lack thereof, but
I have thought those optics look rather bad.

(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

(02-21-2019 03:54 PM)jmudukes Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

bingo....no way should JMU ever be a safety net for coaches that leave

(02-21-2019 04:20 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 03:54 PM)jmudukes Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

bingo....no way should JMU ever be a safety net for coaches that leave

I hate that we didn't offer KB any more cash until after he came to us with a deal in hand from another school, however, agree KB has to play his cards now without JMU. He'll be fine, just may have to move three or four times until he calls it a day.

Kenny has no desire to coach men anymore, last time I heard him speak on the topic.

I really hope he can turn it around. He's a good guy and his players like him. The community liked him here- wonder how he's acclimated down in turkey town?

He's got 17 seasons under his belt, averaging 24 wins a season and a 72% win percentage. His only warts are a poor NCAA Tourney record (as do most mid major coaches) and his conference record while in the ACC. He'll land on his feet and be fine.

I don't think the hot seat is really that hot for him just yet. Mostly just matters what Whit thinks. I doubt WBB at VT has any mega-donors pulling strings.

Kenny's bunch is on the verge of a huge upset at home tonight. Hokies leading the Canes by 6 with 41" left.

Hokies only made 5 2-pt FGs, but made 21-24 FTs and hit 14 3-pt to pull off the upset. Moved up to t-10th place in the loaded ACC, and the last three games are winnable (Clemson who is 8-6 in ACC, UVA who is tied for 10th, and WF who is in last).

(02-21-2019 04:50 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 04:20 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 03:54 PM)jmudukes Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

bingo....no way should JMU ever be a safety net for coaches that leave

I hate that we didn't offer KB any more cash until after he came to us with a deal in hand from another school, however, agree KB has to play his cards now without JMU. He'll be fine, just may have to move three or four times until he calls it a day.

BP, Dukester, and ShadyP are upset that JMU didn't counter KB with ACC money to stay as the WBB coach at JMU.