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Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
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orange-to-purple Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
No way is Kenny on the hot seat after beating Miami at home last night. And I wouldn't pay that much attention to the fan boards anyway. They don't have that much influence. If they did, Philip Fulmer would have been AD at Tennessee in 2012, not just last year, Holly Warlick would have been fired 2 years after she took over the Lady Vols, and who knows who would be the coach of either JMU team............
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2019 12:08 PM by orange-to-purple.)
02-22-2019 12:08 PM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-21-2019 10:36 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 04:50 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 04:20 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 03:54 PM)jmudukes Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

bingo....no way should JMU ever be a safety net for coaches that leave

I hate that we didn't offer KB any more cash until after he came to us with a deal in hand from another school, however, agree KB has to play his cards now without JMU. He'll be fine, just may have to move three or four times until he calls it a day.

BP, Dukester, and ShadyP are upset that JMU didn't counter KB with ACC money to stay as the WBB coach at JMU.

Not too annoying when posters make claims that were never made. Par for the Nuts.

I think Kenny had earned another increase based on his results. I think his value had increased at JMU and he was not given any more. Kenny disliked having to get offers from other schools to get an increase from JMU. No way Kenny should of had to walk away from JMU upset after all the things he's done. Women's basketball today is running on the foundation he laid at JMU. Since Kenny left we have not been back to the Dance. I believe if Kenny was still here we would of had improved results the prior two years. It's very possible it could be easier to win on the court at JMU for Kenny versus Tech, but not money wise.

Kenny was willing and did take a home town discount. He did for many years at JMU. He may have been less willing to listen to offers if he was not feeling disrespected and taken advantage of at JMU. They couldn't offer him any additional based on results and attendance?

Nuts, I don't think anyone thought JMU should counter an offer three times what JMU was paying. Hopefully you understand that does not make sense. Once he was wanting to listen to other offers, and the big offer came in - it was game over for JMU.
02-22-2019 02:03 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-22-2019 02:03 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 10:36 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 04:50 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 04:20 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 03:54 PM)jmudukes Wrote:  why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

bingo....no way should JMU ever be a safety net for coaches that leave

I hate that we didn't offer KB any more cash until after he came to us with a deal in hand from another school, however, agree KB has to play his cards now without JMU. He'll be fine, just may have to move three or four times until he calls it a day.

BP, Dukester, and ShadyP are upset that JMU didn't counter KB with ACC money to stay as the WBB coach at JMU.

Not too annoying when posters make claims that were never made. Par for the Nuts.

I think Kenny had earned another increase based on his results. I think his value had increased at JMU and he was not given any more. Kenny disliked having to get offers from other schools to get an increase from JMU. No way Kenny should of had to walk away from JMU upset after all the things he's done. Women's basketball today is running on the foundation he laid at JMU. Since Kenny left we have not been back to the Dance. I believe if Kenny was still here we would of had improved results the prior two years. It's very possible it could be easier to win on the court at JMU for Kenny versus Tech, but not money wise.

Kenny was willing and did take a home town discount. He did for many years at JMU. He may have been less willing to listen to offers if he was not feeling disrespected and taken advantage of at JMU. They couldn't offer him any additional based on results and attendance?

Nuts, I don't think anyone thought JMU should counter an offer three times what JMU was paying. Hopefully you understand that does not make sense. Once he was wanting to listen to other offers, and the big offer came in - it was game over for JMU.

^^^^
This
Clearly Deez needs to take advantage of a reading comprehension continued education course over at the Community College.
02-22-2019 05:42 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
There was no money that was going to keep him at JMU. When someone offers to double+ your salary, you're not going to hang around any longer. Kenny reached the top of the ladder at JMU. We were very lucky to have him while we did. He is total package coach.
02-22-2019 10:17 PM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-22-2019 10:17 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  There was no money that was going to keep him at JMU. When someone offers to double+ your salary, you're not going to hang around any longer. Kenny reached the top of the ladder at JMU. We were very lucky to have him while we did. He is total package coach.

Kenny Brooks 3-28-16

“You can build a brand-new house, but if you don’t have any furniture to put in it, it’s not going to be a very nice house,” Brooks said Monday. “And I think that the cost of attendance is something that’s going to be very important for JMU down the road to discuss and look at it from a different angle. My contract extension, I think you kind of understand it. It wasn’t anything to get excited about”.

Kenny said recruits are consistently asking about it.

"Madison not offering cost of attendance. That was a tremendous red flag for me. Without cost of attendance in the next few years, there's no way you're going to get the Jazmon Gwathmeys or the Precious Halls or the Angela Mickens' of the world to be able to come to a place like that because it's such an enticing factor. One of the first things recruits are asking is, 'Do you offer that cost-of-attendance thing?' Here in the next few years, there's going to be a divide between the haves and have nots."
02-23-2019 05:45 AM
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Top Dawg Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-23-2019 05:45 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  
(02-22-2019 10:17 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  There was no money that was going to keep him at JMU. When someone offers to double+ your salary, you're not going to hang around any longer. Kenny reached the top of the ladder at JMU. We were very lucky to have him while we did. He is total package coach.

Kenny Brooks 3-28-16

“You can build a brand-new house, but if you don’t have any furniture to put in it, it’s not going to be a very nice house,” Brooks said Monday. “And I think that the cost of attendance is something that’s going to be very important for JMU down the road to discuss and look at it from a different angle. My contract extension, I think you kind of understand it. It wasn’t anything to get excited about”.

Kenny said recruits are consistently asking about it.

"Madison not offering cost of attendance. That was a tremendous red flag for me. Without cost of attendance in the next few years, there's no way you're going to get the Jazmon Gwathmeys or the Precious Halls or the Angela Mickens' of the world to be able to come to a place like that because it's such an enticing factor. One of the first things recruits are asking is, 'Do you offer that cost-of-attendance thing?' Here in the next few years, there's going to be a divide between the haves and have nots."

JMU 6-17-2016

"James Madison University to Offer Cost of Attendance for Basketball"
02-23-2019 08:35 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-22-2019 10:17 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  There was no money that was going to keep him at JMU. When someone offers to double+ your salary, you're not going to hang around any longer. Kenny reached the top of the ladder at JMU. We were very lucky to have him while we did. He is total package coach.


Yep - once he felt disrespected, he accepted offers and when he did - once he received the huge offer it was game over for JMU.

If he felt appreciated the offer may have never come. If Kenny was just in it for the money he would of been gone many years before. He's no longer at JMU and fans go anti-Kenny. To me Kenny wore the colors on the court. He handled the program successfully with class. Took our Women's basketball to a new level it had not been since at least Sheila. He did so while accepting less to stay at JMU. His final year he was upset they could not find "any" additional money for his continued improvement of the program. He left upset. He welcomed offers because he was upset.

Once again nuts everyone agrees it was over once he received the offer, but that he was seeking offers is because he was so unhappy with the administration. Once again he would of left years prior if it was all about the money for him.
02-23-2019 11:33 AM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-23-2019 11:33 AM)Dukester Wrote:  
(02-22-2019 10:17 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  There was no money that was going to keep him at JMU. When someone offers to double+ your salary, you're not going to hang around any longer. Kenny reached the top of the ladder at JMU. We were very lucky to have him while we did. He is total package coach.


Yep - once he felt disrespected, he accepted offers and when he did - once he received the huge offer it was game over for JMU.

If he felt appreciated the offer may have never come. If Kenny was just in it for the money he would of been gone many years before. He's no longer at JMU and fans go anti-Kenny. To me Kenny wore the colors on the court. He handled the program successfully with class. Took our Women's basketball to a new level it had not been since at least Sheila. He did so while accepting less to stay at JMU. His final year he was upset they could not find "any" additional money for his continued improvement of the program. He left upset. He welcomed offers because he was upset.

Once again nuts everyone agrees it was over once he received the offer, but that he was seeking offers is because he was so unhappy with the administration. Once again he would of left years prior if it was all about the money for him.

^^^^^^
Again, well stated and backed by common sense.

Though, for me, we have a good one guiding the team and it's only a matter of time before we're dancing.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 02:39 PM by BleedingPurple.)
02-23-2019 02:37 PM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-21-2019 10:36 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 04:50 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 04:20 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 03:54 PM)jmudukes Wrote:  
(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  If VT ends him after this season and we end rowe...hmmm...could kenny do anything with our mens team?

why would we rehire Kenny - he left JMU for "greener" pastures and guess what it's not always greener on the other side.

bingo....no way should JMU ever be a safety net for coaches that leave

I hate that we didn't offer KB any more cash until after he came to us with a deal in hand from another school, however, agree KB has to play his cards now without JMU. He'll be fine, just may have to move three or four times until he calls it a day.

BP, Dukester, and ShadyP are upset that JMU didn't counter KB with ACC money to stay as the WBB coach at JMU.

Absolute NOT, nothing could be farther from the truth. No way in HECK JMU should EVER pay even close to what VT is paying for a women's bball coach. There was no way JMU could compete with that offer regardless if they made a counter before or after VT came calling.

I like the women's program, but NOT that much to pay that kind of $$$ for a coach.
02-25-2019 10:29 AM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
Given the success of so many women’s sports at JMU , it is fairly obvious JMU is an attractive option for female student athletes. Kenny did a fine job at JMU but the program has not missed a beat with it’s new coach. Kenny got paid and JMU has maintained it’s status as a top mid major program. Everyone won so I am not sure why anyone would be upset over how Kenny’s departure went down.

Kenny left JMU as the highest paid coach in the CAA. If you coach at JMU, you know there is a ceiling and the big money is with the P5 programs. We fans should never expect to retain our top coaches. We can only hope they stay for the intangible things a school like ours offers. You can win at JMU and that is a big deal for coaches and players alike.
02-26-2019 08:42 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-26-2019 08:42 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Given the success of so many women’s sports at JMU , it is fairly obvious JMU is an attractive option for female student athletes. Kenny did a fine job at JMU but the program has not missed a beat with it’s new coach. Kenny got paid and JMU has maintained it’s status as a top mid major program. Everyone won so I am not sure why anyone would be upset over how Kenny’s departure went down.

Kenny left JMU as the highest paid coach in the CAA. If you coach at JMU, you know there is a ceiling and the big money is with the P5 programs. We fans should never expect to retain our top coaches. We can only hope they stay for the intangible things a school like ours offers. You can win at JMU and that is a big deal for coaches and players alike.

We might not have missed a beat, but have missed the NCAA tournament since he left getting blown out each time in the CAA tournament.

You guys know better than what you post.....

What is and should be the goal for men's basketball? Making the NCAA tournament. We did it under Kenny. We have not since he left. We were ranked in the top 25 under Kenny - we have not "yet" under under Sean.

Nobody thinks we should or would be able retain every coach. But there are things you can do to help retain your coaches. Kenny made the statement - I've not earned "any" increase? He was not asking to be paid $500k like Wendy at ODU. Just put some sort of increase on the board. 20k maybe. Perhaps if he was not upset and did not feel disrespected he would not of started seeking offers for his first time at JMU.

Many fans get upset when people defend Houston, and Kenny and on the flip side don't understand the lack patience with the Men's program.

Think about that -

I'm

Pro - Houston
Pro - Kenny
Anti - Success of Men's basketball

Yet some of the regulars fight what seems to be common sense.

And because I'm pro Houston does not mean I don't think JMU handled his tenure correctly. In that case Houston and JMU was a win - win. situation.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2019 09:41 AM by Dukester.)
02-26-2019 09:35 AM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
Where does it stop Dukester? Coach Brooks had reached the top of the salary ladder at JMU, or at the very least JMU defined what they were willing to pay for the top job in the WBB program. You keep advocating for increasing his salary. Do I think he was worth another $xx,xxx? Sure! But you can't keep saying we should have paid him more and in the same thread say he shouldn't be making big money. KB was earning $225K at JMU when he was hired at VT. That is the point I was trying to make earlier in this thread.
02-26-2019 10:19 AM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-26-2019 10:19 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Where does it stop Dukester? Coach Brooks had reached the top of the salary ladder at JMU, or at the very least JMU defined what they were willing to pay for the top job in the WBB program. You keep advocating for increasing his salary. Do I think he was worth another $xx,xxx? Sure! But you can't keep saying we should have paid him more and in the same thread say he shouldn't be making big money. KB was earning $225K at JMU when he was hired at VT. That is the point I was trying to make earlier in this thread.

Agree......as you pointed out he was the most highly compensated wbb coach in the CAA. So among peer institutions he was at the top of the ladder. I am sure JMU has a limit for what they are willing to pay each coach given the sport and my guess if KB was already there. There comes a point where that's it and it seems JMU was there with wbb. I am not critical of that decision at all (everyone at JMU loves/d KB) but JMU is not going to pay a wbb coach anywhere close to what VT or a P5 that wants to get serious about their wbb program is willing to pay.

I don't get any hard feelings with this decision on either end, it was just a business decision and simple economics.

KB was also very smart about when he left.....he did not leave the cupboards bare but he did leave with a talented senior class with a re-stocking job at JMU. It was the perfect time for him to command top dollar and exit JMU.
02-26-2019 10:26 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
Read into this whatever you wish...JMU average "attendance" at Convo by season for this decade FWIW per JMU Sports website...

2010: 2,447
2011: 2,568
2012: 2,365
2013: 2,157
2014: 3,072
2015: 2,904
2016: 2,652
2017: 2,675
2018: 2,286
2019 (to date): 2,173

-The 2014 season included an opener hosting UVA that had a stated "attendance" of 3,500.

-The 2018 number includes 2 home WNIT games that were poorly "attended" by normal standards with just near 1,000 for each game, which would skew the overall average a bit.

-The 2013 number includes 4 home WNIT games that were similar as 2018 though the NC State home game was near the final average.

-The 2012 number includes 5 home WNIT games that saw "attendance" just around 1,000 for the first 2 rounds hosting Davidson & Wake Forest, the next round against South Florida was near the final average, and then home games against UVA (3.3K, quarterfinals) and Syracuse (over 4K, semifinals) balanced things out a bit.

(note, I keep quoting "attendance" because I assume this is number of tickets accounted for and not necessarily hind parts through gates for at least the regular season games)
02-26-2019 10:56 AM
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orange-to-purple Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
And just out of curiosity, what's the average attendance for women's games at VT? I'm well aware that WBB isn't a big draw at some of the ACC schools. They are not all Notre Dame, Louisville, UNC, and NC State, which I think are the top drawing schools in the ACC. I know attendance is way down at Duke in recent years, and I don't think it's been good at BC or Wake Forest either. It was very low at Syracuse until recently, I think, which puzzled me as Syracuse had a pretty decent team. Not too great at UVA either.
02-26-2019 11:43 AM
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Dukester Offline
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RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-26-2019 10:19 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Where does it stop Dukester? Coach Brooks had reached the top of the salary ladder at JMU, or at the very least JMU defined what they were willing to pay for the top job in the WBB program. You keep advocating for increasing his salary. Do I think he was worth another $xx,xxx? Sure! But you can't keep saying we should have paid him more and in the same thread say he shouldn't be making big money. KB was earning $225K at JMU when he was hired at VT. That is the point I was trying to make earlier in this thread.

(02-21-2019 10:36 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  BP, Dukester, and ShadyP are upset that JMU didn't counter KB with ACC money to stay as the WBB coach at JMU.


Hopefully when people don't get signaled out and misquoted. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2019 01:11 PM by Dukester.)
02-26-2019 01:07 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-26-2019 01:07 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(02-26-2019 10:19 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Where does it stop Dukester? Coach Brooks had reached the top of the salary ladder at JMU, or at the very least JMU defined what they were willing to pay for the top job in the WBB program. You keep advocating for increasing his salary. Do I think he was worth another $xx,xxx? Sure! But you can't keep saying we should have paid him more and in the same thread say he shouldn't be making big money. KB was earning $225K at JMU when he was hired at VT. That is the point I was trying to make earlier in this thread.

(02-21-2019 10:36 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  BP, Dukester, and ShadyP are upset that JMU didn't counter KB with ACC money to stay as the WBB coach at JMU.


Hopefully when people don't get signaled out and misquoted. 04-cheers

I can absolutely agree that JMU felt KB was at the very top of what could be offered (speaking solely on his new contract, not the additional $25K we countered with). Take that counter offer totally out of the equation and I believe donors could have been found to offer a token minimal amount to his new contract that just maybe would have kept him in purple. It just seems like a bit of a slap in his face to give him a new contract with $0.00 added. We didn't do that to Matt Brady when he was resigned and could have easily gotten away with it on his new deal. Unlike Dukester, I am perfectly happy with SO.

KB had just an okay first season he inherited a team who had gone 16 - 12 the year before and KB followed it with a 17 - 12 season. However, KB went 13 - 18 in his second season 18 - 11 in his third. It wasn't until his fourth going 24 - 7 and made the NIT that JMU could feel something good was starting to take place. SO has outdone KB when comparing the first three seasons of each coach. Granted he probably had a better group of players than did KB. Nevertheless, I am completely satisfied with the WBB program today.
02-26-2019 04:08 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
I just don't see how a couple of you KEEP saying it was a so-called slap in the face not to give the man a raise. He was paid very well. I admit worth much more (to at least one ACC school), but not only had his salary ceiling plateaued, his teams' performance had too. We weren't advancing in the NCAA tourney (you could argue that we went backwards after 13-14 season when we advanced to the second round). How do you justify paying someone more for not accomplishing more?

I love KB. Wish we could have given him bigger money every year. But for the sake of internet arguing, what possible justifications can you make? Kenny took care of his fam when he decided to head to Blackburg. I imagine he would be welcome on JMU's campus any day of the week by Mr King/Alger/Bourne.
02-26-2019 05:18 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
I was SO pissed when Kenny left for VT because I saw it the same as Dukester. COA stipend and a little pay bump seemed like all it would take to keep him. I tend to side with Dukester that we could have kept Kenny with a little COLA increase and the player stipend. But we’ll never know unless Kenny is willing to say it out loud. He definitely alluded to it in the news, but never actually said it outright because he’s a pro and probably didn’t want to burn bridges.

All that said, I do agree we were probably at the peak of what we were willing to offer him.

I do want to push back on the “CAA peers” POV. JMU WBB at that point had maybe one real peer in the league, as it relates to wins & attendance. Elon had not yet truly emerged & Delaware returned to being garbage after their savior EDD graduated. Drexel was probably our only conference WBB peer then (and only due to wins as DU’s WBB attendance blows despite their success). Not sure how to properly identify our true peers from that time period, but I don’t think our conference is an accurate way to identify them.
02-26-2019 05:29 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Is Kenny Brooks on the hot seat?
(02-26-2019 05:29 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I was SO pissed when Kenny left for VT because I saw it the same as Dukester. COA stipend and a little pay bump seemed like all it would take to keep him. I tend to side with Dukester that we could have kept Kenny with a little COLA increase and the player stipend. But we’ll never know unless Kenny is willing to say it out loud. He definitely alluded to it in the news, but never actually said it outright because he’s a pro and probably didn’t want to burn bridges.

All that said, I do agree we were probably at the peak of what we were willing to offer him.

I do want to push back on the “CAA peers” POV. JMU WBB at that point had maybe one real peer in the league, as it relates to wins & attendance. Elon had not yet truly emerged & Delaware returned to being garbage after their savior EDD graduated. Drexel was probably our only conference WBB peer then (and only due to wins as DU’s WBB attendance blows despite their success). Not sure how to properly identify our true peers from that time period, but I don’t think our conference is an accurate way to identify them.

Agree, in some ways our WBB is to the CAA as Gonzaga is to the WCC. They're not really playing peers during the conference part of their schedule.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2019 07:54 PM by BleedingPurple.)
02-26-2019 07:52 PM
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