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the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #1
the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
I never tire pointing out the obvious....let's lead with the dumbarse first





now, lets review trade policy and the impact set in motion by DJT....

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/conrad-...-the-world

Quote:Almost indiscernible in the endless tumult about President Donald Trump is the objective return of American might, right on our doorstep. A casual sampler of the Canadian, and even the American, media, might think that the United States was so far along in its decline that the entire process of government and normal public discourse had broken down in that country, and that the much-discussed process of national decline was accelerating in a climate of virtual chaos.

In fact, the economy of the United States is astoundingly strong: full employment, an expanding work force, negligible inflation and about three per cent economic growth. And it is a broad economic recovery, not based on service industries as in the United Kingdom (where London handles most of Europe’s financial industry, while most of British industry has fled), and not based largely on the fluctuating resources markets as has often been Canada’s experience. In the eight years of president Obama, the United States lost 219,000 manufacturing jobs; in the two years of Trump, the country has added 477,000 manufacturing jobs. This was not supposed to be possible, and this time, unlike in the great Reagan boom, it cannot be dismissed by the left (and it was false in the eighties) as a profusion of “hamburger flippers, dry cleaners and people delivering pizza,” (all necessary occupations).

Quote:It is clear that China is feeling the heat of American tariffs. Their magnificent hypocrisy of gamboling in a $360-billion trade surplus with the United States while extorting technology from American companies and reducing American high-tech giants like Apple and Google to snivelling on China’s behalf when their sales in that country are reduced, and all the while leading G-77 in cupped-hands requests for relief from the economically most advanced countries for their pollution of the world environment (although China is the world’s greatest polluter), all of it is ending.

The United States will not be the world’s premier chump anymore. The most enthusiastic support the United States is receiving in its trade stance with China is from China’s neighbours, from India to Japan. Of course China is the world’s second-greatest power and must be treated with respect, but that does not mean the shameless grovelling of Trump’s predecessors, paying court to Beijing like lackeys kowtowing to the emperors of the Middle Kingdom.

Every U.S. president starting with Dwight Eisenhower has bewailed American dependence on foreign oil. Foreigners then supplied 10 per cent of America’s oil, a figure that rose to 60 per cent under president Obama, and no one has done anything about it, until the past two years, when oil production has been sharply increased and reliance on oil imports has been sharply cut, on its inexorable way to zero. For decades, whenever the U.S. made purposeful noises about doing the necessary to reduce oil imports, the Saudis engineered a cut in the international price and American will collapsed backwards into the contemptible torpor of declining powers.

All that has changed.

What were for centuries the Great Powers, and for nearly 50 years after the Second World War, the principal Western Allies and the Soviet Union, have been reconfigured. The Soviet Union has been sliced down to Russia with about 40 per cent of the former Soviet population, offering a pallid replication of Gaullist efforts to make France great again by being an annoying gadfly irritating the Americans around the world. Charles de Gaulle was a great statesman, who personified the historic cultural and political attainments of France in its most difficult and dishonoured times; Vladimir Putin is just another chief thug residing in the Kremlin.

this is what happens when you play a position of strength to your advantage vs. bending and playing the apologist to the world's stage....

suck on that teat dippos....
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 09:38 AM by stinkfist.)
01-12-2019 09:37 AM
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Post: #2
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.
01-12-2019 09:43 AM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #3
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 09:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  I never tire pointing out the obvious....let's lead with the dumbarse first





now, lets review trade policy and the impact set in motion by DJT....

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/conrad-...-the-world

Quote:Almost indiscernible in the endless tumult about President Donald Trump is the objective return of American might, right on our doorstep. A casual sampler of the Canadian, and even the American, media, might think that the United States was so far along in its decline that the entire process of government and normal public discourse had broken down in that country, and that the much-discussed process of national decline was accelerating in a climate of virtual chaos.

In fact, the economy of the United States is astoundingly strong: full employment, an expanding work force, negligible inflation and about three per cent economic growth. And it is a broad economic recovery, not based on service industries as in the United Kingdom (where London handles most of Europe’s financial industry, while most of British industry has fled), and not based largely on the fluctuating resources markets as has often been Canada’s experience. In the eight years of president Obama, the United States lost 219,000 manufacturing jobs; in the two years of Trump, the country has added 477,000 manufacturing jobs. This was not supposed to be possible, and this time, unlike in the great Reagan boom, it cannot be dismissed by the left (and it was false in the eighties) as a profusion of “hamburger flippers, dry cleaners and people delivering pizza,” (all necessary occupations).

Quote:It is clear that China is feeling the heat of American tariffs. Their magnificent hypocrisy of gamboling in a $360-billion trade surplus with the United States while extorting technology from American companies and reducing American high-tech giants like Apple and Google to snivelling on China’s behalf when their sales in that country are reduced, and all the while leading G-77 in cupped-hands requests for relief from the economically most advanced countries for their pollution of the world environment (although China is the world’s greatest polluter), all of it is ending.

The United States will not be the world’s premier chump anymore. The most enthusiastic support the United States is receiving in its trade stance with China is from China’s neighbours, from India to Japan. Of course China is the world’s second-greatest power and must be treated with respect, but that does not mean the shameless grovelling of Trump’s predecessors, paying court to Beijing like lackeys kowtowing to the emperors of the Middle Kingdom.

Every U.S. president starting with Dwight Eisenhower has bewailed American dependence on foreign oil. Foreigners then supplied 10 per cent of America’s oil, a figure that rose to 60 per cent under president Obama, and no one has done anything about it, until the past two years, when oil production has been sharply increased and reliance on oil imports has been sharply cut, on its inexorable way to zero. For decades, whenever the U.S. made purposeful noises about doing the necessary to reduce oil imports, the Saudis engineered a cut in the international price and American will collapsed backwards into the contemptible torpor of declining powers.

All that has changed.

What were for centuries the Great Powers, and for nearly 50 years after the Second World War, the principal Western Allies and the Soviet Union, have been reconfigured. The Soviet Union has been sliced down to Russia with about 40 per cent of the former Soviet population, offering a pallid replication of Gaullist efforts to make France great again by being an annoying gadfly irritating the Americans around the world. Charles de Gaulle was a great statesman, who personified the historic cultural and political attainments of France in its most difficult and dishonoured times; Vladimir Putin is just another chief thug residing in the Kremlin.

this is what happens when you play a position of strength to your advantage vs. bending and playing the apologist to the world's stage....

suck on that teat dippos....

Doesnt matter. The Dems are empathetic for federal workers that may get paid a week or two later for their paid vacations. And that story is obviously propaganda because those jobs really didnt come back.
01-12-2019 10:42 AM
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Marc Mensa Offline
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Post: #4
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.

Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.

Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
01-12-2019 11:21 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #5
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.

When your job been outsourced due NAFTA and your Obamacare premium is more than mortgage, you buy the cheap Chinese crap because that's all you can afford
01-12-2019 11:27 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #6
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.

Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.

Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.

what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in america???

oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
01-12-2019 11:33 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.
Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....

Actually, it does in a way.

Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.

Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).

The German government generally sees its role as helping German businesses succeed, leading many times to a less adversarial relationship than we often have here.

We have far superior natural resources to Germany in so many ways--land, energy, transportation, natural barriers to protect us from invasion--and our demographics are better, too. If we changed our system to support manufacturing rather than to be adversarial toward anybody who makes a profit, we'd kick them squarely in the arse.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 12:05 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-12-2019 12:01 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #8
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  [quote='bullet' pid='15828408' dateline='1547304225']
If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.
Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....

Quote:Actually, it does in a way.

Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.

much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....

I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...

Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).

which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....

implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....

whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....

setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....

the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....

it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 02:41 PM by stinkfist.)
01-12-2019 02:41 PM
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Post: #9
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 02:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  [quote='bullet' pid='15828408' dateline='1547304225']
If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.
Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
Quote:Actually, it does in a way.
Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.
much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....
I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...
Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).
which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....
implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....
whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....
setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....
the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....
it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....

Te biggest trade barrier we face is the fact that we don't have a national consumption tax (VAT/GST/Fair Tax) whereas every other developed country does, usually in the 20% range. They collect the tax on all imports, without it counting as a tariff. And they get to rebate it on exports. That would level a lot of playing fields, way faster than one-by-one tariffs will.
01-12-2019 02:53 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #10
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 02:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  [quote='bullet' pid='15828408' dateline='1547304225']
If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.
Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
Quote:Actually, it does in a way.
Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.
much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....
I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...
Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).
which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....
implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....
whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....
setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....
the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....
it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....

Te biggest trade barrier we face is the fact that we don't have a national consumption tax (VAT/GST/Fair Tax) whereas every other developed country does, usually in the 20% range. They collect the tax on all imports, without it counting as a tariff. And they get to rebate it on exports. That would level a lot of playing fields, way faster than one-by-one tariffs will.

I don't disagree with that a bit as we've both lobbied for this occasionally in the past....

however, he didn't choose that path .... choosing the tariff route has sufficiently 'worked' to date in both job creation and renegotiating existing trade deals...

it's tough to argue against his methodology and results to date....
01-12-2019 03:05 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 03:05 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
Quote:Actually, it does in a way.
Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.
much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....
I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...
Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).
which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....
implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....
whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....
setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....
the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....
it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....
The biggest trade barrier we face is the fact that we don't have a national consumption tax (VAT/GST/Fair Tax) whereas every other developed country does, usually in the 20% range. They collect the tax on all imports, without it counting as a tariff. And they get to rebate it on exports. That would level a lot of playing fields, way faster than one-by-one tariffs will.
I don't disagree with that a bit as we've both lobbied for this occasionally in the past....
however, he didn't choose that path .... choosing the tariff route has sufficiently 'worked' to date in both job creation and renegotiating existing trade deals...
it's tough to argue against his methodology and results to date....

Not if you’re a farmer in the Midwest. And it was midwestern states where Trump overperformed expectations to win in2016.
01-12-2019 04:31 PM
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Post: #12
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.

Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.

Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.

what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in america???

oh yeah, not one dayum thing....

Germany also place high tariffs on various types of imports. As an example bicycles.
If a German company wants to import bicycles made in China there is a huge tariff on that. However if the company imports various parts of the bike, then assemble the bike at a facility in Germany, the tariffs on parts of the bike are much smaller.
01-12-2019 04:58 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #13
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 04:58 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.

Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.

Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.

what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in america???

oh yeah, not one dayum thing....

Germany also place high tariffs on various types of imports. As an example bicycles.
If a German company wants to import bicycles made in China there is a huge tariff on that. However if the company imports various parts of the bike, then assemble the bike at a facility in Germany, the tariffs on parts of the bike are much smaller.

see my responses to Owl....

I'm not straying from the point of the OP by debating the semantics of who does what with whom.....homey doesn't enjoy playing move the goalposts....
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 05:17 PM by stinkfist.)
01-12-2019 05:16 PM
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Post: #14
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 02:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  [quote='bullet' pid='15828408' dateline='1547304225']
If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.
Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
Quote:Actually, it does in a way.
Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.
much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....
I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...
Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).
which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....
implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....
whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....
setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....
the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....
it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....

Te biggest trade barrier we face is the fact that we don't have a national consumption tax (VAT/GST/Fair Tax) whereas every other developed country does, usually in the 20% range. They collect the tax on all imports, without it counting as a tariff. And they get to rebate it on exports. That would level a lot of playing fields, way faster than one-by-one tariffs will.

VAT has the terrible side effect of being very effective at raising money without being visible.

I think that side effect makes it a very big mistake for America.
01-12-2019 05:22 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 05:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.
Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.
what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
Quote:Actually, it does in a way.
Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.
much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....
I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...
Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).
which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....
implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....
whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....
setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....
the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....
it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....
The biggest trade barrier we face is the fact that we don't have a national consumption tax (VAT/GST/Fair Tax) whereas every other developed country does, usually in the 20% range. They collect the tax on all imports, without it counting as a tariff. And they get to rebate it on exports. That would level a lot of playing fields, way faster than one-by-one tariffs will.
VAT has the terrible side effect of being very effective at raising money without being visible.
I think that side effect makes it a very big mistake for America.

It can be made very visible. Just post it on price tags.
01-12-2019 05:24 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #16
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 04:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 03:05 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 02:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  what in the hell does that have to do with regaining mfg. jobs in America???
oh yeah, not one dayum thing....
Quote:Actually, it does in a way.
Germany doesn't have the resources we do, so they have to make and market based on high quality. Their education system is better oriented toward training skilled workers. While our kids are studying Chaucer and gender studies, theirs are learning how to build engines and run CAD/CAM terminals. We need to reorient our education system to provide a much higher quality vocational education component, and to steer students who are so inclined in that direction, rather than trying to "mainstream" every student. I really don't care if the guy who fixes my car can recite from the Canterbury Tales, but I do care whether he knows how to fix my car.
much of engineering is highly automated these days....the demand for that field will only see further human reduction as tech continually evolves....
I get your point relative to their situation.....however, this isn't about their situation...
Quote:Germany also had, at least until recently, a more favorable tax environment for investors. They have a territorial system rather than taxing world-wide income. Their corporate rate is approximately 30%, including state taxes, win was significantly less than ours until the 2017 act and is now roughly comparable. Germany did not tax capital gains at all until 2009, and now basically taxes stock transactions but not investment in hard assets that are held for 10 years (so it hits speculators like Mach but not true investors).
which is one major reason the US is regaining mfg. jobs....another would include deregulation....
implementing tariffs on raw goods or the threat of, appear to have had little impact to consumer demand as most companies have passed on little to no increase in pricing from US manufacturers.....they have however, given american businesses a better opportunity to compete in the finished goods market which has driven up demand for US labor....
whether it's Germany, China, or XYZ is irrelevant....
setting up and negotiating real fair trade policies that allow the US to compete equitably against those we choose to based on foreign and domestic dynamics is what's relevant....
the bottom line is we now have someone in place that understands this having been roadblock to regaining mfg. jobs.....
it should be obvious his predecessor didn't have a fk'n clue....that was the overall point of the OP....
The biggest trade barrier we face is the fact that we don't have a national consumption tax (VAT/GST/Fair Tax) whereas every other developed country does, usually in the 20% range. They collect the tax on all imports, without it counting as a tariff. And they get to rebate it on exports. That would level a lot of playing fields, way faster than one-by-one tariffs will.
I don't disagree with that a bit as we've both lobbied for this occasionally in the past....
however, he didn't choose that path .... choosing the tariff route has sufficiently 'worked' to date in both job creation and renegotiating existing trade deals...
it's tough to argue against his methodology and results to date....

Not if you’re a farmer in the Midwest. And it was midwestern states where Trump overperformed expectations to win in2016.

I'll reserve judgement once they finalize the new Chinese trade agreement.....right now it's a concern....

someone is going to take a negative hit going the tariff route....right now in agriculture it's the US government having to subsidize farmers with minor hits being applied to the consumer...

however, I'd like to keep this thread about mfg. jobs and how that continues to progress....

maybe it would be best to begin a new thread about tariffs and their impact on agriculture?
01-12-2019 05:24 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #17
RE: the illusion of 0bummer and jobs proven in real time why #henceDJT
(01-12-2019 11:21 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  If the German economy can have manufacturing jobs, there's no reason the American economy can't have even more with our lower land and energy costs.

Americans buy cheap disposable goods which can been made cheaply in China and exported to the US. The European consumer tends to demand quality and value the more expensive goods manufactured in Germany.

Too, the Chinese value german made automobiles and appliances which, sizewise, translates to their style of living.

And the left wonders why DJT thinks we need to renegotiate our trade deals.
01-12-2019 05:47 PM
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