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Democrats starting to crack over the wall
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-11-2019 04:03 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  [Image: https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2F...0x1111.jpg]

You win 04-cheers
01-11-2019 07:49 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-11-2019 03:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I think they're fine with voting $5B for the wall if they get something they want also.

Personally I'd rather give up the wall than give them what they will want in return. I'd gladly give up the wall to get a comprehensive and rational immigration policy.

Careful, you'll trigger a NPC using words like that.

The reason why our elected officials hate fixing things is because they'll be giving up job security.
01-11-2019 08:17 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-11-2019 03:34 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 03:16 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I think they're fine with voting $5B for the wall if they get something they want also.

There is only one reason these "politicians" are starting to give in and that is because they are getting heat back home from constituents and they have to get re-elected in less than 24 months. That reason and for that reason only. Y'all can spin this however you want but that is why they are going public with this.

There are hundreds of thousands not getting a paycheck. Unlike Trump and many Republicans, Democrats have empathy.

lol... that's a good one!

Democrats have empathy... made me spit out my coke.
01-11-2019 10:20 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/10/...and-thugs/

I like her line, "...Bottom line: Every day Democrats refuse to secure the border brings them a step closer to becoming the party of drugs and thugs. Not a winning platform leading into 2020."
01-11-2019 10:57 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #25
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-11-2019 03:00 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think Chris Coons is wise enough to understand the President, at this point, will claim chicken wire and a tarp as a political win.

I think he realizes that the Democrats are losing on substance. The American public thinks a wall in many places is reasonable. Saying it’s not and doesn’t work anywhere just makes Democrats look ridiculous and out of touch with reality. They can blame the shutdown on Trump and win on some symbolic level—but they are losing on the real substance of the debate and that will eventually destroy any symbolic advantage they temporarily held. The refusal to negotiate and the ridiculous position Nancy and Chuck are forcing thier rank and file to defend is turning off the public.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 03:23 AM by Attackcoog.)
01-12-2019 03:21 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 03:21 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 03:00 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think Chris Coons is wise enough to understand the President, at this point, will claim chicken wire and a tarp as a political win.

I think he realizes that the Democrats are losing on substance. The American public thinks a wall in many places is reasonable. Saying it’s not and doesn’t work anywhere just makes Democrats look ridiculous and out of touch with reality. They can blame the shutdown on Trump and win on some symbolic level—but they are losing on the real substance of the debate and that will eventually destroy any symbolic advantage they temporarily held. The refusal to negotiate and the ridiculous position Nancy and Chuck are forcing thier rank and file to defend is turning off the public.

The party of drugs and thugs.
01-12-2019 08:47 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
The conservative Boston paper calls it like it is. https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/11/...ompromise/

"...Oh, wait — I know. They’re Schumer and Pelosi. AKA “Democrats.” And Trump is evil incarnate. Much like Democrats said George H. W. Bush was during the 1992 campaign, when they were attacking him as a racist, warmongering stooge of Big Oil.

And yet, Bush did compromise. His compromise was a massive tax hike that took hundreds of billions of dollars out of the private economy and put it into the federal government’s pocket over the subsequent decade.

President Obama, on the other hand, did not. A Democratic supermajority shoved Obamacare down the voters’ throats and it will cost (according to the latest numbers) $1.34 trillion over a decade.

Which one was undermining the fabric of our democracy?

The argument that Democrats are making now — “We can’t waste money like that!” is the biggest spit take in American politics. Since when did Democrats worry about wasting money? The Obama “Bridge to Nowhere” stimulus bucks? The pallets of cash we airlifted to Iran?

Or how about Head Start? We have mountains of research proving this preschool program doesn’t work, but we’ll still waste $10 billion on it this year.

Liberals can’t have it both ways. They can’t harp on about how our fundamental democratic institutions are weakening, and our trust on governance is failing because our leaders won’t work together, while simultaneously telling Trump (and his 60 million voters) to pound sand over his core campaign issue.

If our democracy is truly in danger, then Democrats should cut the deal. Schumer and Pelosi should say, “Look, we don’t like the Wall. We think it’s dumb. But Trump won the election and democracy means letting winners do dumb things their voters like. So go play ‘Bob the Builder’ while we solve real problems.”

That’s what #Bush41 would have done. That’s what Tip O’Neill would have done. Will Nancy Pelosi?

Hell, no. Because she thinks she’s got Trump over a barrel and, like all the other “bipartisan compromisers,” she’d rather defeat Trump than defend the fabric of our democracy."
01-12-2019 09:37 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 09:37 AM)bullet Wrote:  The conservative Boston paper calls it like it is. https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/11/...ompromise/

"...Oh, wait — I know. They’re Schumer and Pelosi. AKA “Democrats.” And Trump is evil incarnate. Much like Democrats said George H. W. Bush was during the 1992 campaign, when they were attacking him as a racist, warmongering stooge of Big Oil.

And yet, Bush did compromise. His compromise was a massive tax hike that took hundreds of billions of dollars out of the private economy and put it into the federal government’s pocket over the subsequent decade.

President Obama, on the other hand, did not. A Democratic supermajority shoved Obamacare down the voters’ throats and it will cost (according to the latest numbers) $1.34 trillion over a decade.

Which one was undermining the fabric of our democracy?

The argument that Democrats are making now — “We can’t waste money like that!” is the biggest spit take in American politics. Since when did Democrats worry about wasting money? The Obama “Bridge to Nowhere” stimulus bucks? The pallets of cash we airlifted to Iran?

Or how about Head Start? We have mountains of research proving this preschool program doesn’t work, but we’ll still waste $10 billion on it this year.

Liberals can’t have it both ways. They can’t harp on about how our fundamental democratic institutions are weakening, and our trust on governance is failing because our leaders won’t work together, while simultaneously telling Trump (and his 60 million voters) to pound sand over his core campaign issue.

If our democracy is truly in danger, then Democrats should cut the deal. Schumer and Pelosi should say, “Look, we don’t like the Wall. We think it’s dumb. But Trump won the election and democracy means letting winners do dumb things their voters like. So go play ‘Bob the Builder’ while we solve real problems.”

That’s what #Bush41 would have done. That’s what Tip O’Neill would have done. Will Nancy Pelosi?

Hell, no. Because she thinks she’s got Trump over a barrel and, like all the other “bipartisan compromisers,” she’d rather defeat Trump than defend the fabric of our democracy."

Latest installment of team over country.
01-12-2019 09:58 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 09:37 AM)bullet Wrote:  The conservative Boston paper calls it like it is. https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/11/...ompromise/

"...Oh, wait — I know. They’re Schumer and Pelosi. AKA “Democrats.” And Trump is evil incarnate. Much like Democrats said George H. W. Bush was during the 1992 campaign, when they were attacking him as a racist, warmongering stooge of Big Oil.

And yet, Bush did compromise. His compromise was a massive tax hike that took hundreds of billions of dollars out of the private economy and put it into the federal government’s pocket over the subsequent decade.

President Obama, on the other hand, did not. A Democratic supermajority shoved Obamacare down the voters’ throats and it will cost (according to the latest numbers) $1.34 trillion over a decade.

Which one was undermining the fabric of our democracy?

The argument that Democrats are making now — “We can’t waste money like that!” is the biggest spit take in American politics. Since when did Democrats worry about wasting money? The Obama “Bridge to Nowhere” stimulus bucks? The pallets of cash we airlifted to Iran?

Or how about Head Start? We have mountains of research proving this preschool program doesn’t work, but we’ll still waste $10 billion on it this year.

Liberals can’t have it both ways. They can’t harp on about how our fundamental democratic institutions are weakening, and our trust on governance is failing because our leaders won’t work together, while simultaneously telling Trump (and his 60 million voters) to pound sand over his core campaign issue.

If our democracy is truly in danger, then Democrats should cut the deal. Schumer and Pelosi should say, “Look, we don’t like the Wall. We think it’s dumb. But Trump won the election and democracy means letting winners do dumb things their voters like. So go play ‘Bob the Builder’ while we solve real problems.”

That’s what #Bush41 would have done. That’s what Tip O’Neill would have done. Will Nancy Pelosi?

Hell, no. Because she thinks she’s got Trump over a barrel and, like all the other “bipartisan compromisers,” she’d rather defeat Trump than defend the fabric of our democracy."

sounds like somebody I know very well wrote that.... 03-wink

the low hanging fruit is still there to be eaten....unfortunately, the dems simply enjoy the rotten version....
01-12-2019 10:03 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.

The Dems have always supported common sense border protections, of which a wall isn't a part of. They also insist on an end to CBP/ICE abuse of asylum seekers and legal American residents/citizens that are of color who happen to live or travel near the border, or who speak Spanish.

The issue is that the Trumpers are unwilling to concede anything concrete in return, which at a minimum would include vastly higher resources and OVERSIGHT of our asylum procedures, an end to blocking asylum requests at legal ports of entry, due process for those in our immigration courts, the DREAM act with a path to citizenship, and an end to using kids as bait to lure in parents or relatives for deportation.

Trump is unwilling to compromise. He started this fight, completely unnecessarily by insisting that paying the Coast Guard, Corrections Officers, Air Traffic Controllers, and IRS refunds for their work is contingent upon the Dems letting him do what he wants at the border. Elections have consequences, and this is one consequence. You either have to convince people to support your idea or you have to compromise. Trump no longer holds all the cards.

The Dems aren't changing their views on immigration. They aren't coming closer to Trump's views. They aren't caving.

----

From a political standpoint, the Dems lose nothing by letting this ride. Trump took credit for the shutdown back in December. The Senate won't even bring up a bill they passed 3 weeks before the shutdown to reopen government. Vast majorities of Democrats and Independents blame the Trumpers and the GOP for it. And Trump's address was a disaster for the GOP. In the House, Pelosi is simply holding vote after vote after vote, forcing Republican Congressmen to vote on funding individual agencies while this goes on. So the Dems can claim....we're in favor of ending this, and letting the wall debate continue. So far 12 GOP Congressmen have voted against Trump on these bills. I expect more to join them. Because the Dems can now claim that every GOP Congressman that votes against these 'reopening' bills is voting to continue the shutdown, voting to personally stop checks from being paid to local constituents, holding up farm subsidies, holding up tax refunds, jeapordizing safety. This is a complete and utter disaster for the GOP.

The reason why McConnell won't allow the Senate to vote on a continuing resolution, even in the face of a Trump veto threat, is because it would put GOP Senators in an impossible position. Vote against Trump, and buy yourself a primary opponent in the process. Vote against the resolution, and p*ss off lots of people that are being hurt by the shutdown and look like a tool of Trump.

So you have a scenario where the Dems really don't have any downside. No one reachable is blaming them as much as Trump (and likely won't because Trump won't concede anything and even claimed credit for the shutdown - idiot), few if any of their base is upset with them for standing up for Trump, and it puts a LOT of Republican Congressmen and Senators in a terrible political position. This was about the dumbest thing Trump could have done politically.

Downside for the Dems if this continues...virtually none

Downside for Trump if this continues...little, but more than for the Dems. There are thousands of REPUBLICAN government employees and stakeholders who are going to be hurt badly by this. Corrections officers, Coast Guard employees, farmers, etc. Some of them will rightly choose their economic well being over blind loyalty to Trump. Call it 1% in national approval.

Downside for GOP Congressmen and Senators.... Massive, especially for GOP Senators up in marginal states (Tillis, Collins, Gardner, Ernst, McSally) next year and also for many GOP Congressmen, who are getting baited left in right by Pelosi forcing them to vote against reopening the government.

----

This is a no win for the Republicans, so long as the Dems stay focused, with little downside for them. Why would they let Trump get out of the trap he put himself into?
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 11:54 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
01-12-2019 11:37 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #31
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.

The Dems have always supported common sense border protections, of which a wall isn't a part of. They also insist on an end to CBP/ICE abuse of asylum seekers and legal American residents/citizens that are of color who happen to live or travel near the border, or who speak Spanish.

The issue is that the Trumpers are unwilling to concede anything concrete in return, which at a minimum would include vastly higher resources and OVERSIGHT of our asylum procedures, an end to blocking asylum requests at legal ports of entry, due process for those in our immigration courts, the DREAM act with a path to citizenship, and an end to using kids as bait to lure in parents or relatives for deportation.

Trump is unwilling to compromise. He started this fight, completely unnecessarily by insisting that paying the Coast Guard, Corrections Officers, Air Traffic Controllers, and IRS refunds for their work is contingent upon the Dems letting him do what he wants at the border. Elections have consequences, and this is one consequence. You either have to convince people to support your idea or you have to compromise. Trump no longer holds all the cards.

The Dems aren't changing their views on immigration. They aren't coming closer to Trump's views. They aren't caving.

----

From a political standpoint, the Dems lose nothing by letting this ride. Trump took credit for the shutdown back in December. The Senate won't even bring up a bill they passed 3 weeks before the shutdown to reopen government. Vast majorities of Democrats and Independents blame the Trumpers and the GOP for it. And Trump's address was a disaster for the GOP. In the House, Pelosi is simply holding vote after vote after vote, forcing Republican Congressmen to vote on funding individual agencies while this goes on. So the Dems can claim....we're in favor of ending this, and letting the wall debate continue. So far 12 GOP Congressmen have voted against Trump on these bills. I expect more to join them. Because the Dems can now claim that every GOP Congressman that votes against these 'reopening' bills is voting to continue the shutdown, voting to personally stop checks from being paid to local constituents, holding up farm subsidies, holding up tax refunds, jeapordizing safety. This is a complete and utter disaster for the GOP.

The reason why McConnell won't allow the Senate to vote on a continuing resolution, even in the face of a Trump veto threat, is because it would put GOP Senators in an impossible position. Vote against Trump, and buy yourself a primary opponent in the process. Vote against the resolution, and p*ss off lots of people that are being hurt by the shutdown and look like a tool of Trump.

So you have a scenario where the Dems really don't have any downside. No one reachable is blaming them as much as Trump (and likely won't because Trump won't concede anything and even claimed credit for the shutdown - idiot), few if any of their base is upset with them for standing up for Trump, and it puts a LOT of Republican Congressmen and Senators in a terrible political position. This was about the dumbest thing Trump could have done politically.

Downside for the Dems if this continues...virtually none

Downside for Trump if this continues...little, but more than for the Dems. There are thousands of REPUBLICAN government employees and stakeholders who are going to be hurt badly by this. Corrections officers, Coast Guard employees, farmers, etc. Some of them will rightly choose their economic well being over blind loyalty to Trump. Call it 1% in national approval.

Downside for GOP Congressmen and Senators.... Massive, especially for GOP Senators up in marginal states (Tillis, Collins, Gardner, Ernst, McSally) next year and also for many GOP Congressmen, who are getting baited left in right by Pelosi forcing them to vote against reopening the government.

----

This is a no win for the Republicans, so long as the Dems stay focused, with little downside for them. Why would they let Trump get out of the trap he put himself into?

The Democrats want open borders and their stupid and ridiculous claims that "walls dont work" is the biggest evidence of what they really want. Its incredibly obvious that Democrats fear a wall precisely because they know it WILL work. Its worked everywhere its been used. The funniest thing Ive ever heard is all these rich aristocratic Democrats like Nancy, living in splendor behind the safety of their walled gated communties, telling people walls are "immoral" and dont work. 03-lmfao

The key for the Democrats is to keep the focus on the shutdown--because Im pretty sure Americans dont believe the government needs to be shut down over a wall. Trump on the other hand, needs to push the focus to border security and the effectiveness of a wall---because the Democrat arguments here make them look ridiculous.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 06:28 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-12-2019 12:02 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.

Democrats want a steady stream of illegals that they can somehow turn into citizens, but more importantly democrat voters. Their words my say otherwise, but their actions don't.

"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you can keep 'em voting democrat." Nothing serves tat strategy better than a steady stream of poor and uneducated immigrants.
01-12-2019 12:11 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 12:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.

Democrats want a steady stream of illegals that they can somehow turn into citizens, but more importantly democrat voters. Their words my say otherwise, but their actions don't.

"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you can keep 'em voting democrat." Nothing serves tat strategy better than a steady stream of poor and uneducated immigrants.

You keep saying that but

Which party does better with voters with college and post graduate degrees? Democrats

Which party does better in economically successful areas and voters? Democrats

Which party does better in net-donor to the Federal Government states? Democrats

Have you seen the voter participation rates for Hispanic immigrant citizens and their children? Its very, very, very low.

In short, I'm not sure that any part of your post is supported by voter data.
01-12-2019 12:24 PM
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Curumim Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
The next dem regime will put it down. We know it.
01-12-2019 12:32 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 12:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.
Democrats want a steady stream of illegals that they can somehow turn into citizens, but more importantly democrat voters. Their words my say otherwise, but their actions don't.
"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you can keep 'em voting democrat." Nothing serves tat strategy better than a steady stream of poor and uneducated immigrants.
You keep saying that but
Which party does better with voters with college and post graduate degrees? Democrats
Which party does better in economically successful areas and voters? Democrats
Which party does better in net-donor to the Federal Government states? Democrats
Have you seen the voter participation rates for Hispanic immigrant citizens and their children? Its very, very, very low.
In short, I'm not sure that any part of your post is supported by voter data.

Which party does better with uneducated poor? By a far greater margin than any of those stats you mention. The ones that they keep dumb and poor by perpetuating the welfare plantation?

That's what frustrates me to no end. Republicans have a huge opportunity to turn a significant portion of the black and brown demographics in their direction. Get behind ways to replace the welfare plantation with opportunity to get off the plantation. Be the party of the hand up instead of the handout. You see and hear some of it from people like Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell and Star Parker and the late Jack Kemp. But they won't just jump on the wagon. You provide a valid way up and out of poverty and you'd capture a significant chunk of the black and brown vote. Do that and you'd alter the election calculus for at least a generation.

But republicans are stupid. Stupid party versus evil party. And evil wins all too often.
01-12-2019 12:40 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-11-2019 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I think they're fine with voting $5B for the wall if they get something they want also.

I think Dems will give in on the wall in exchange for all the items on this list:

https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

And Individual One might just go for it so he can get his wall.
01-12-2019 01:10 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 12:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.
Democrats want a steady stream of illegals that they can somehow turn into citizens, but more importantly democrat voters. Their words my say otherwise, but their actions don't.
"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you can keep 'em voting democrat." Nothing serves tat strategy better than a steady stream of poor and uneducated immigrants.
You keep saying that but
Which party does better with voters with college and post graduate degrees? Democrats
Which party does better in economically successful areas and voters? Democrats
Which party does better in net-donor to the Federal Government states? Democrats
Have you seen the voter participation rates for Hispanic immigrant citizens and their children? Its very, very, very low.
In short, I'm not sure that any part of your post is supported by voter data.

Which party does better with uneducated poor? By a far greater margin than any of those stats you mention. The ones that they keep dumb and poor by perpetuating the welfare plantation?

That's what frustrates me to no end. Republicans have a huge opportunity to turn a significant portion of the black and brown demographics in their direction. Get behind ways to replace the welfare plantation with opportunity to get off the plantation. Be the party of the hand up instead of the handout. You see and hear some of it from people like Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell and Star Parker and the late Jack Kemp. But they won't just jump on the wagon. You provide a valid way up and out of poverty and you'd capture a significant chunk of the black and brown vote. Do that and you'd alter the election calculus for at least a generation.

But republicans are stupid. Stupid party versus evil party. And evil wins all too often.

You don't get it. Basically, you throw out a bunch of names of African American Conservatives who didn't come out of the African American mainstream. Basically, their base is, and always has been, white Conservatives.

Whites, by a large margin, consume far more in welfare than African Americans. Should we be talking about Trump trying to keep Appalaichians stuck on the welfare/coal mine plantation? As soon as you insult African Americans as too stupid to think for themselves, you probably lose them.

And as far as outreach to minorities goes.....hold on....Rep. Steve King is on CNN, I'll have to watch that....LOL
01-12-2019 01:19 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 01:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.
Democrats want a steady stream of illegals that they can somehow turn into citizens, but more importantly democrat voters. Their words my say otherwise, but their actions don't.
"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you can keep 'em voting democrat." Nothing serves tat strategy better than a steady stream of poor and uneducated immigrants.
You keep saying that but
Which party does better with voters with college and post graduate degrees? Democrats
Which party does better in economically successful areas and voters? Democrats
Which party does better in net-donor to the Federal Government states? Democrats
Have you seen the voter participation rates for Hispanic immigrant citizens and their children? Its very, very, very low.
In short, I'm not sure that any part of your post is supported by voter data.
Which party does better with uneducated poor? By a far greater margin than any of those stats you mention. The ones that they keep dumb and poor by perpetuating the welfare plantation?
That's what frustrates me to no end. Republicans have a huge opportunity to turn a significant portion of the black and brown demographics in their direction. Get behind ways to replace the welfare plantation with opportunity to get off the plantation. Be the party of the hand up instead of the handout. You see and hear some of it from people like Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell and Star Parker and the late Jack Kemp. But they won't just jump on the wagon. You provide a valid way up and out of poverty and you'd capture a significant chunk of the black and brown vote. Do that and you'd alter the election calculus for at least a generation.
But republicans are stupid. Stupid party versus evil party. And evil wins all too often.
You don't get it. Basically, you throw out a bunch of names of African American Conservatives who didn't come out of the African American mainstream. Basically, their base is, and always has been, white Conservatives.
Whites, by a large margin, consume far more in welfare than African Americans. Should we be talking about Trump trying to keep Appalaichians stuck on the welfare/coal mine plantation? As soon as you insult African Americans as too stupid to think for themselves, you probably lose them.
And as far as outreach to minorities goes.....hold on....Rep. Steve King is on CNN, I'll have to watch that....LOL

Jack Kemp was black? Seriously? I never knew that. I really wish the Jack Kemp wing of the Republican Party had become prominent, instead of the neocon wing.

I'm not going to disagree hugely with some of what you're saying, just say that I look at it from a different perspective. You're saying republicans don't reach out to minorities, I'm expressing frustration that they don't.

I really think the capitalist model offers a lot more hope and opportunity to the poor of all races, colors, and creeds than does the welfare plantation model. But until somebody really challenges that model in a big way, we are stuck with it, with the only disagreement being that democrats want to pump more more into it and republicans less.

And I'm sorry, you and democrats can deny, "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat," all you want. But democrat actions say those denials are lies.
01-12-2019 01:47 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
(01-12-2019 12:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 12:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 11:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Most Democrats, including those in Congress and the Senate, are NOT in favor of completely open borders. Most remain opposed to Trump's stupid wall, which is counterproductive, harms communities on our side of the border, and takes focus away from the real illegal immigration threat, which is at our AIRPORTS.

Democrats want a steady stream of illegals that they can somehow turn into citizens, but more importantly democrat voters. Their words my say otherwise, but their actions don't.

"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you can keep 'em voting democrat." Nothing serves tat strategy better than a steady stream of poor and uneducated immigrants.

You keep saying that but

Which party does better with voters with college and post graduate degrees? Democrats

Which party does better in economically successful areas and voters? Democrats

Which party does better in net-donor to the Federal Government states? Democrats

Have you seen the voter participation rates for Hispanic immigrant citizens and their children? Its very, very, very low.

In short, I'm not sure that any part of your post is supported by voter data.

Which party overwhelmingly dominates the poor and very poorly educated? The Democrats.
Which party rules nearly every impoverished area in the country? The Democrats.
Which party has except for the last election dominated the voters with bachelor's degrees? The Republicans (and the Democrats barely won last time-assuming you can believe the polls-which is pretty iffy).

So again, you get away from the issue, which is the Democrats wanting to get more voters from poor people.
01-13-2019 01:48 PM
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Kronke Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Democrats starting to crack over the wall
It's not if, but when the dems' fold. Chuck and nancy are deathly afraid of the alt-left fringe, but cooler heads like Coons will eventually prevail.

Trump should ratchet up the pressure. Go from $5.7 bil back to $25 bil in exchange for DACA.

(This post was last modified: 01-13-2019 02:47 PM by Kronke.)
01-13-2019 02:44 PM
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